Skyboss-alpha1 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Hello everyone I’m hoping that you can assist me I have a 2013 Subaru Legacy 2.5i limited. I might be having one problem or two problems and I am in desperate need of your help. The first problem that I am having is that the car is overheating at random, the car was at the Subaru dealership in Orange Park Florida for three weeks; according to them they have done the following: • radiator pressure test • radiator flush twice & bleeding out the system radiator twice • engine coils and spark plugs • inspected and tested water pump passed • engine compression test passed • replaced radiator cap • replace O2 sensor • leak down test headgasket (passed) The vehicle intermittently is overheating, the dealership had the car driven from Florida to my address for delivery which was 87 miles one way, and the car never overheated. I have had the car now for 22 days and not once did it overheat until yesterday. I am noticing that every time the vehicle has overheated the air conditioning happens to be on and I start feeling warm air blowing through the vents. I also have looked at the temperature gauge as it climbs up and falls back immediately after I turn off the air conditioner. The second part that I just recently notice is that I’m hearing a lot of water sloshing behind the driver side dashboard, I am not sure if this is related to my problem or not or if I just simply have a secondary issue altogether. I was thinking if I should replace the relays for the fans next? The fans do come on as normal according to the dealership….. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Since the dealer has tried and not resolved the issue, I would return it with the same complaint until it is resolved or lemon-lawed. There isn't a lot we can tell you that the dealer hasn't already done, if you are confident they did indeed do the tests and procedures. You can always try a different dealer, just make sure to keep the complaint consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyboss-alpha1 Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 In order for your car to be considered a lemon, the following must have occurred within 24 months following the date of delivery (the Lemon Law Rights Period): The vehicle defect or condition must "substantially impair the use, value, or safety" of the vehicle. The vehicle must have undergone at least 3 attempts to repair the same issue. The vehicle must have out of service for repair of the defect for 15 days or more. Do you think the water sloshing around behind the driver's side dashboard is related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cww516 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I'm pretty sure that sloshing sound you're hearing is air circulating through the cooling system- I had that on startup for a little while, and it went away after I topped off both the radiator and the overflow tank. Unfortunately, if you're hearing that after a radiator flush and fill (assuming they refilled it and burped it correctly), the air is getting in somewhere else. My old car developed a small head gasket leak (thanks, Dexcool!) that pushed a tiny little bit of exhaust into the coolant, and at anything over about 45 MPH, it was enough to trap a hot air bubble over the temperature sender and drop the car into limp mode. If you have a pinhole leak like that, a compression test may still come back good, so I'd recommend having a leakdown test done and see if that gets you anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgeo13 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Going off of the last reply, not in my Subie but a previous car I owned had very frustrating and intermittent overheating. Could never get it to do it when I wanted it to, always inconvenient times that I had to pull over and let it cool. Literally, I could drive for hours and be fine, but one 20 minute trip to the store or something and it would overheat. I began by eliminating all possibilities that could cause overheating. Flushed coolant and replaced thermostat. Ensured the radiator fans worked properly. Ensured coolant was still flowing. Did the test on the radiator with the fluid burper thing for exhaust leaks in the head gasket. Came back negative. Changed the radiator cap. I eliminated essentially every possibility except head gasket. Replaced head gaskets and all was well. My guess was one of the exhaust holes had a tiny tiny leak in the gasket that, when the engine got super hot, was just enough to vent a little into the coolant causing the coolant to boil and the car to overheat. Not saying this is your issue, but sounds similar. This car passed the headgasket test but it was still the headgasket. Just a thought. Good luck :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Sounds like there is still air in your cooling system. I would try bleeding it again. Sometimes there are a few air bubbles that just refuse to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 There are some Tribeca owners who have had this same experience, everything checks out but overheating persists. In the end it was the headgaskets, a leakdown test will tell you more than a compression test, assuming the technician is competent and trustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyboss-alpha1 Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 I messaged the service manager at the dealership and he has informed me that they also have perform a leakdown test and that it passed. He also spoke to the same technician, that worked on my vehicle and he is now thinking that it could be an internal engine issue. They ate recommending sending out the heads for resurfacing and resealing of head gaskets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coco26 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I've seen this exact issue (sloshing noise behind the dash, overheating) on a Toyota vehicle. Dealer replaced nearly the entire cooling system, and no change. Their next step was to replace the short block, and the noise stopped. Its a mystery as to what it could've been, but head gaskets would've been changed with the block, so its consistent with everyone else^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyboss-alpha1 Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 I am curious as to roughly how much would it cost to resurface the heads and replace head gaskets. I've seen some used Subaru engines online for $987usd. I have 70k+ on this engine seems odd that I would have these issues all the sudden, oh btw i did a data port scan of the car and it coming up as egr error no code but can't get live data will post screenshot in a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtualking Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Check for the air in the cooling system it might be a problem and if its not that you should have taken a professional maintenance service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarang Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I am curious as to roughly how much would it cost to resurface the heads and replace head gaskets. I've seen some used Subaru engines online for $987usd. I have 70k+ on this engine seems odd that I would have these issues all the sudden, oh btw i did a data port scan of the car and it coming up as egr error no code but can't get live data will post screenshot in a few. It cost me $1200 at a local reputable Subaru speed shop a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 The dealership should be able to give you an estimate, they have access to the labor rate charts for most any repairs. I would expect it to be around $2k-2500 just because of the dealer tax. That will also buy you some extra coverage on that repair, at least a year warranty, but some engine repairs are warranted for 3yr/36k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyboss-alpha1 Posted June 29, 2018 Author Share Posted June 29, 2018 So today I want to start the vehicle and it wouldn’t start the illumination cluster lighted up, but it would not crank over. I had the battery which happens to be an interstate battery exchanged for a new one, I put in the new battery in and everything seems fine. Then this afternoon I go to the gas station to fuel up and when I go to start the car the car is dead. I waited about 30 seconds and I tried again in the car barely started like the battery was completely dead but I finally got it to start. So now I am thinking do I have an AC compressor unit issue or do I have an alternator issue that’s giving me problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capttris Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Skyboss I think you are on to something. If the overheating ONLY happens when the AC is on, I wonder if you have a bad compressor and/or other bad AC-related component. Sometimes when electric motors fail/begin to fail, they can actually begin to "short" POS to NEG, and create a power draw. This can happen even with the car off, which would explain the battery issues you are having. Before my Legacy, I had a 2001 Audi A6 BiTurbo. Awesome car but a maintenance & reliability nightmare! The Audi's battery would die in 4-5 days of sitting. I spent hours with a multimeter, pulling EVERY fuse, one at a time, and couldn't find the issue. Brought it to the dealer and they found one of the Aux. electric cooling fans had failed and was the source of the constant "phantom" electrical draw. Unfortunately, it also meant that on really hot days, stopped in traffic with AC on, that the coolant temp would climb up to the point that I was getting nervous. That was one of the many problems that car started to have, when I traded it in for my Legacy. So: 1. it might be worth checking the Amp draw from the electric aux cooling fan when the car is OFF. It should be 0A 2. I believe the 2013 Legacy has an electric clutch for the AC. Apparently it is designed to release (turn off the AC compressor) under heavy acceleration. If this is stuck/sticking and or failing, it could be the cause of your draw. 3. There are probably other electrical components related to the AC system as well, to check. 4. Do you know 100% that your car is actually overheating, other than seeing the temp gauge rise up? Did the dealer confirm actual overheating? 5. The reason I ask, is that many temp gauges (and any gauge that relies on resistance to ground for measurement) can actually rise based on electrical load to the system, and/or funky electrical/ground issues. Basically, the fact that you are having battery problems (which seem to be from a phantom electrical draw when the car is off) could be directly related to the "overheating", whether it's the gauge rising (and the engine is fine), OR one of the components related to the AC is causing BOTH of these problems. Let me know if this makes sense and helps at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyboss-alpha1 Posted June 29, 2018 Author Share Posted June 29, 2018 Skyboss I think you are on to something. If the overheating ONLY happens when the AC is on, I wonder if you have a bad compressor and/or other bad AC-related component. Sometimes when electric motors fail/begin to fail, they can actually begin to "short" POS to NEG, and create a power draw. This can happen even with the car off, which would explain the battery issues you are having. Before my Legacy, I had a 2001 Audi A6 BiTurbo. Awesome car but a maintenance & reliability nightmare! The Audi's battery would die in 4-5 days of sitting. I spent hours with a multimeter, pulling EVERY fuse, one at a time, and couldn't find the issue. Brought it to the dealer and they found one of the Aux. electric cooling fans had failed and was the source of the constant "phantom" electrical draw. Unfortunately, it also meant that on really hot days, stopped in traffic with AC on, that the coolant temp would climb up to the point that I was getting nervous. That was one of the many problems that car started to have, when I traded it in for my Legacy. So: 1. it might be worth checking the Amp draw from the electric aux cooling fan when the car is OFF. It should be 0A 2. I believe the 2013 Legacy has an electric clutch for the AC. Apparently it is designed to release (turn off the AC compressor) under heavy acceleration. If this is stuck/sticking and or failing, it could be the cause of your draw. 3. There are probably other electrical components related to the AC system as well, to check. 4. Do you know 100% that your car is actually overheating, other than seeing the temp gauge rise up? Did the dealer confirm actual overheating? 5. The reason I ask, is that many temp gauges (and any gauge that relies on resistance to ground for measurement) can actually rise based on electrical load to the system, and/or funky electrical/ground issues. Basically, the fact that you are having battery problems (which seem to be from a phantom electrical draw when the car is off) could be directly related to the "overheating", whether it's the gauge rising (and the engine is fine), OR one of the components related to the AC is causing BOTH of these problems. Let me know if this makes sense and helps at all. Thanks for your response, I can confirm the vehicle has actually overheated because coolant is sprayed all over the engine area as well as on the heat shield. I am about to run outside and check for voltage drop,amp draw if I have a draw I am going to try to pull a fuse at time to isolate where the draw would be coming from.I just want a reliable car so many issues all the sudden for 76K miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Same symptoms as a customer a few weeks ago. He said it would only overheat after driving 70+ miles with the ac on. I never got it to overheat, probably because I don't have time to drive a car for 70 miles, so I told him to stop back when the issue presented itself. A few days later he pulls in, popped the hood and saw bubbles in overflow. I slowly took off the cap (already knowing the headgaskets failed), did a hydrocarbon test and instant failure. Long story short, your headgaskets are bad. I'm not sure what causes it to only overheat with ac on but same exact issue as a 2010 outback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyboss-alpha1 Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Contacted another subaru dealership in Jacksonville fl they are quoting me 2000 to 2700 for headgasket and replacing all seals on the engine o rings etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarang Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Contacted another subaru dealership in Jacksonville fl they are quoting me 2000 to 2700 for headgasket and replacing all seals on the engine o rings etc.. I wouldn't pay that much. Have you tried local shops? The stealership is always more expensive. Make sure they include resurfacing the heads, and you should consider doing the timing belt, water pump, and clutch while you're in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyboss-alpha1 Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 Does anyone have any recommendations on replacing the engine with a rebuilt? I checked out Jasper and they don't have any in stock, at this point I am considering going this route and placing an engine with a warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 A rebuilt engine will still need all the accessories like the water pump, timing components, etc...The dealership is almost always going to have the best warranty period, yes they are more expensive but that is the price you pay for some peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarang Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Why? Wouldn't that cost like twice as much? I don't really see why you'd replace the assembly when you only need to replace the gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 The way I see it you have two choices that will allow you to work with known good components: fix your engine or get a new long block. As sarang points out the cost difference is significant in replacing the long block for an issue which has plagued the H4 engines for some time and also has a good track record for successful repairs. It is your money and you ultimately choose what is best for your situation. I would repair what you have already, the odds are it is just a failed gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyboss-alpha1 Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 So if I went ahead with head gasket replacement which involves resurfacing am I to expect that theirs some sort of warranty coverage for the repairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Any dealer repairs are generally covered for 12 months/12k miles some repairs may be warranted longer. A shortblock or longblock would carry a 3yr/36k mile warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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