2017 Legacy is very unstable at highway speeds

[aki334]

In a recent post in the thread "What's the furthest from Home you've taken your Legacy" george 2493 stated that he did a 3 month trip and almost doubled your journey distance .... after giving his Legacy a workout like that, I would be very interested in his views as to whether he also feels "our cars have serious problems with suspension setup."

 

Here is his post ...

 

" ... I did a 3 month trip this summer all across North America. I live in New Jersey. I drove down to Georgia, out to Colorado and Utah, THEN Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, through Alberta, British Columbia and Yukon Territory, then hit anchorage and homer Alaska, then same route back to Utah, then to Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, back to Utah and Colorado, then back to Jersey. 21,000 miles in my 2.5 legacy. Camped out of her the whole time. Best I averaged was 37mpg and 620 miles in one tank ..."

 

That is nice, but in order to average 37 mpg you have to drive 55mph correct me if I am wrong.

 

Anyway on November 30th on I 70 eastbound from Colorado to Illinois crosswind warning was issued with 65mph winds and they were hitting me from the left side exactly at the right angle and going anything above 70mph was possible but not fun. I am 6'5" 260lb and I have strength to hold the steering wheel that is not a problem. I am also GM tech so I know about cars and how things work, but my wife's MK4 Jetta TDI and Scion XB 2nd generation both are more stable in crosswinds. When there is no winds I have no complaints with subaru at all. Then most of you that do not notice problems must be driving under 65mph or even less if you can average 37mpg. Anyway sooner or later you will all experience what I did and hope you will come here and admit.

[DougKelly20]

What are your tire pressures?

[tmoney468]

I notice the instability on the highway as well, but adding the 20mm RSB has helped me.

 

My mother got an ‘19 Outback loaner and the first thing she said when she got home from the dealer was how awful it wandered on the highway.

 

 

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[wi_legacy2016]

I've driven many of the interstates between Cleveland and Minneapolis for the past 2 years. I've never felt like my 2016 3.6R was unstable with the exception of a few very high wind situations.

[ncted]

That is nice, but in order to average 37 mpg you have to drive 55mph correct me if I am wrong.

 

Anyway on November 30th on I 70 eastbound from Colorado to Illinois crosswind warning was issued with 65mph winds and they were hitting me from the left side exactly at the right angle and going anything above 70mph was possible but not fun. I am 6'5" 260lb and I have strength to hold the steering wheel that is not a problem. I am also GM tech so I know about cars and how things work, but my wife's MK4 Jetta TDI and Scion XB 2nd generation both are more stable in crosswinds. When there is no winds I have no complaints with subaru at all. Then most of you that do not notice problems must be driving under 65mph or even less if you can average 37mpg. Anyway sooner or later you will all experience what I did and hope you will come here and admit.

 

FWIW: I believe you experienced what you say. It just doesn't match with my experiences.

 

I got 32.4 MPG (my calculation, not the trip computer which is a bit more optimistic) on my recent trip to GA and back. I certainly didn't drive 55 on the highways. I typically drive 5-10 MPH over the speed limit to keep up with the majority of traffic, using cruise control when possible. I feel lucky I haven't experienced the issues you and others have complained about with my Legacy [yet]. I will say the steering on the Legacy is pretty numb compared to a MK4 Jetta or a Scion xB, so maybe that lack of feedback is part of the problem?

[ammcinnis]

In a recent post in the thread "What's the furthest from Home you've taken your Legacy" george 2493 stated that he did a 3 month trip and almost doubled your journey distance ....

Make that 17.5x, not 2x! (i.e. 21,000 miles vs. 1200 miles.)

 

That is nice, but in order to average 37 mpg you have to drive 55mph correct me if I am wrong.

On that point, you are wrong. 37 mpg is exceptional, but I have achieved it numerous times driving 65-70 mph. (32-36 mpg is more typical. The entire fuel history for my 2015 Legacy is available for all to see; simply click the Fuelly link in my signature.) Temperature, elevation, winds, and road conditions all have a significant effect on fuel mileage.

 

Anyway on November 30th on I 70 eastbound from Colorado to Illinois crosswind warning was issued with 65mph winds and they were hitting me from the left side exactly at the right angle and going anything above 70mph was possible but not fun.

Hyperbole aside, I'm not surprised. A 65 mph crosswind gust is going to upset the stability of any moving vehicle. A trailer carrying half of a double-wide mobile home blew over that same day on I-70 just west of Topeka (KS). I once saw a semi-trailer rig about a quarter mile in front of me get blown over by a crosswind gust on I-70 near Goodland (KS).

 

Point is: It's not Subaru's fault.

Edited December 4, 2019 by ammcinnis

[aki334]

What are your tire pressures?

 

32 psi on all 4 tires

[aki334]

FWIW: I believe you experienced what you say. It just doesn't match with my experiences.

 

I got 32.4 MPG (my calculation, not the trip computer which is a bit more optimistic) on my recent trip to GA and back. I certainly didn't drive 55 on the highways. I typically drive 5-10 MPH over the speed limit to keep up with the majority of traffic, using cruise control when possible. I feel lucky I haven't experienced the issues you and others have complained about with my Legacy [yet]. I will say the steering on the Legacy is pretty numb compared to a MK4 Jetta or a Scion xB, so maybe that lack of feedback is part of the problem?

 

agree with you with the steering wheel feel, it is bit too light and too sensitive to change direction. But what confuses me is that 2017 elantra GT on the same day passed by me at 80+ mph and I tried to watch it as far as I could for any side to side movement to see if he/she is experiencing same wind problems and to be honest not at all, that thing was moving straight in the center of the left lane like an arrow while I had to keep my both hands at 10 and 2 like a grandma moving steering wheel left and right every half second by roughly 3/4" in both directions to keep it straight.

[aki334]

Make that 17.5x, not 2x! (i.e. 21,000 miles vs. 1200 miles.)

 

 

On that point, you are wrong. 37 mpg is exceptional, but I have achieved it numerous times driving 65-70 mph. (32-36 mpg is more typical. The entire fuel history for my 2015 Legacy is available for all to see; simply click the Fuelly link in my signature.) Temperature, elevation, winds, and road conditions all have a significant effect on fuel mileage.

 

Hyperbole aside, I'm not surprised. A 65 mph crosswind gust is going to upset the stability of any moving vehicle. A trailer carrying half of a double-wide mobile home blew over that same day on I-70 just west of Topeka (KS). I once saw a semi-trailer rig about a quarter mile in front of me get blown over by a crosswind gust on I-70 near Goodland (KS).

 

Point is: It's not Subaru's fault.

 

 

Ok. how do you explain then 2017 Elantra GT moving next to me with the same wind conditions like an arrow straight in the center of the road with 0 (zero) left and right movements. I was going 72mph and he/she had to be going over 80mph with no problems at all. I have researched this instability feeling and it happens to basically all subaru body shapes including WRX's so it makes me to believe that aerodynamics is not the issue, it must be something with the suspension. It would not surprise me since they installed that toothpick/noodle size RSB that almost everyone needed to change. For a moment I was thinking that the front end is too light, but then I see complaints even with 3.6L motor.

[ammcinnis]

Ok. how do you explain then 2017 Elantra GT moving next to me with the same wind conditions like an arrow straight in the center of the road with 0 (zero) left and right movements.

First, I doubt that the winds were repeatedly gusting to 65 mph. 45 mph gusts is probably more likely. Second, the experience inside the other car may have been very different than your external impression.

 

... he/she had to be going over 80mph with no problems at all.

And you know this ... how?

 

I have researched this instability feeling and it happens to basically all subaru body shapes including WRX's so it makes me to believe that aerodynamics is not the issue, it must be something with the suspension.

If you ever have some objective evidence to present, rather than personal opinion, I'd be more than happy to consider it. As previously stated, my anecdotal experience in a 2015 Legacy, as well as other owners', has been substantially different than yours. This does not support your opinion that there's an inherent suspension problem in all Subarus. Edited December 4, 2019 by ammcinnis

[aki334]

First, I doubt that the winds were repeatedly gusting to 65 mph. 45 mph gusts is probably more likely. Second, the experience inside the other car may have been very different than your external impression.

 

If outside of the car is not moving why would inside be moving

 

And you know this ... how?

 

I was driving 72mph and he passed by me and within 4-5 sec. elantra was at last 50-60 yards away from me. That sounds about 80+ mph to me

 

anyway if your legacy feels planted like elantra then you should be one very lucky owner. Mine was probably made on Friday or hold my beer while I tighten this type of deal when it was made in Indiana.

Edited December 4, 2019 by aki334

[ncted]

agree with you with the steering wheel feel, it is bit too light and too sensitive to change direction. But what confuses me is that 2017 elantra GT on the same day passed by me at 80+ mph and I tried to watch it as far as I could for any side to side movement to see if he/she is experiencing same wind problems and to be honest not at all, that thing was moving straight in the center of the left lane like an arrow while I had to keep my both hands at 10 and 2 like a grandma moving steering wheel left and right every half second by roughly 3/4" in both directions to keep it straight.

 

I don't find the steering twitchy at all, just numb, like most new cars with electric power steering. Mine will stay straight with no inputs on a flat road, and I don't feel the need to keep a death grip on the wheel under most conditions to keep it pointed in the right direction. The steering needs some more weight, and I would actually prefer it was faster. If they could make it feel like a Honda Accord, that would be great.

Edited December 4, 2019 by ncted

[Brisvegas]

I have researched this instability feeling and it happens to basically all subaru body shapes including WRX's so it makes me to believe that aerodynamics is not the issue, it must be something with the suspension. It would not surprise me since they installed that toothpick/noodle size RSB that almost everyone needed to change. For a moment I was thinking that the front end is too light, but then I see complaints even with 3.6L motor.

 

I drive a 3.6 with that standard "toothpick/noodle size RSB" that you mention, and on a flat road at high speed it drives as straight as an arrow. On a few occasions I have driven in an exceptionally high wind area, but even then the car handled like all other cars that I have previously driven, and it wasn't a struggle to keep it on the road.

 

I guess this conversation can go on endlessly with one person (like me) saying how their car drives well and another person (like you) saying the car is unstable, and the bottom line is that the opinions of only a few people is not overwhelming "evidence" either way. If a really large amount of Subaru owners detailed their thoughts on the stability of their cars under "normal" driving conditions (as against driving their cars like a race car and expecting race car handling) then perhaps a reasonable conclusion could be reached.

[DougKelly20]

I think as usual reality is somewhere in the middle here. There are a few posts around that talk about the handling of this car. Seems to be a minority but also more often than anything else about this car. Most of the people who were struggling with it came from tighter European cars. I didn't, but came from an optima and I can tell you it definitely felt to me like the optima was more buttoned down. I had high wind issues as well with the legacy but mostly due to inaccurate tire pressures.

 

Still though "feel" is a subjective thing. The vast majority of drivers aren't paying attention to the subtleties of how their car handles. For me this car was a bit looser than I was used to, but I loved everything else about it. Personally once I did the sway and strut bars (and then later the springs, but they weren't necessary, just fun) I felt like it was tighter and more confident.

 

You're right this discussion could go on forever because there's no right answer for how a car feels to you. I think everyone who's flaming the OP should just accept that maybe he has different expectations of how his car should behave than you. As for the elantra, if it handles anything like my optima did I am not surprised it wasn't struggling...mine was buttoned down very well even in high wind. Steering feel however was FAR worse than my Legacy. Everything is a trade off.

[Bombdigitty]

I don't find the steering twitchy at all, just numb, like most new cars with electric power steering. Mine will stay straight with no inputs on a flat road, and I don't feel the need to keep a death grip on the wheel under most conditions to keep it pointed in the right direction. The steering needs some more weight, and I would actually prefer it was faster. If they could make it feel like a Honda Accord, that would be great.

 

This could be some of the problem right here...Lose the death grip and the problem goes away.

[nuawhofijdighasdfuhdsn]

I have a 2011 legacy and I feel like my car easily reacts to wind too, but only on certain types of roads. I have over 150k miles on my car, so I'm not really complaining. I live the car and will get another subaru

 

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[aki334]

I think as usual reality is somewhere in the middle here. There are a few posts around that talk about the handling of this car. Seems to be a minority but also more often than anything else about this car. Most of the people who were struggling with it came from tighter European cars. I didn't, but came from an optima and I can tell you it definitely felt to me like the optima was more buttoned down. I had high wind issues as well with the legacy but mostly due to inaccurate tire pressures.

 

Still though "feel" is a subjective thing. The vast majority of drivers aren't paying attention to the subtleties of how their car handles. For me this car was a bit looser than I was used to, but I loved everything else about it. Personally once I did the sway and strut bars (and then later the springs, but they weren't necessary, just fun) I felt like it was tighter and more confident.

 

You're right this discussion could go on forever because there's no right answer for how a car feels to you. I think everyone who's flaming the OP should just accept that maybe he has different expectations of how his car should behave than you. As for the elantra, if it handles anything like my optima did I am not surprised it wasn't struggling...mine was buttoned down very well even in high wind. Steering feel however was FAR worse than my Legacy. Everything is a trade off.

 

You said it better than me: I did drive 2006 Mercedes Benz CDI very heavy car felt like a tank on the road, also wife's MK4 TDI very tight and planted feel for both vehicles even more surprising is the stability of the 2015 Scion xb that has amazing steering wheel feel/weight and better stability in the wind than Legacy.

 

Anyway just installed SSD front tower brace. I did not get chance to test it on highway and in wind, but there was instant unnatural feel like I was on the rails as soon as I left the parking spot. One very interesting thing to mention also is that all the dashboard squeaks and rattles are 100% gone after strut tower brace, which tells me that there was some flexing in the front end.

[gathermewool]

A strut tower brace fixing all of those problems seems very unlikely and coincidental; that is, until you report back that you're darned sure, after weeks, that it's better.

 

My experience is that the front strut towers are very close to the very-stiff firewall. I haven't personally seen a strut bar that provided a friction fit to the strut top studs, meaning, loose, you could jiggle the strut bar. Also take into account that the torque for the strut studs is in the teens of ft-lbs, i.e., not much clamping force if the strut bar is loose with the fasteners also loose.

 

If you got some superb bar that actually does work, then more power to you. I'm a skeptic, but that doesn't mean I'm saying you're a liar or what you're describing is impossible; just improbable.

[aki334]

A strut tower brace fixing all of those problems seems very unlikely and coincidental; that is, until you report back that you're darned sure, after weeks, that it's better.

 

My experience is that the front strut towers are very close to the very-stiff firewall. I haven't personally seen a strut bar that provided a friction fit to the strut top studs, meaning, loose, you could jiggle the strut bar. Also take into account that the torque for the strut studs is in the teens of ft-lbs, i.e., not much clamping force if the strut bar is loose with the fasteners also loose.

 

If you got some superb bar that actually does work, then more power to you. I'm a skeptic, but that doesn't mean I'm saying you're a liar or what you're describing is impossible; just improbable.

 

 

SSD strut tower brace is one piece, when you try to pull on the brace there is no play nor any movement. I am not saying nor I said anything that it fixed my issue please read above, all I said is that you really feel the rail type like handling. If you do not believe here is the link for subaru engineers testing flexible strut tower brace and they like it, you can imagine what one piece solid ssd brace does. Again I did not say that it fixed crosswind stability, I am at last trying and is one very simple and inexpensive mod anyone can do in 10 min. Thicker RSB upgrade I only feel on highway, this SSD brace you feel instantly after installation and will continue to feel the difference any time you drive your car. Highly recommended to all.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by aki334

[DougKelly20]

A strut tower brace fixing all of those problems seems very unlikely and coincidental; that is, until you report back that you're darned sure, after weeks, that it's better.

 

My experience is that the front strut towers are very close to the very-stiff firewall. I haven't personally seen a strut bar that provided a friction fit to the strut top studs, meaning, loose, you could jiggle the strut bar. Also take into account that the torque for the strut studs is in the teens of ft-lbs, i.e., not much clamping force if the strut bar is loose with the fasteners also loose.

 

If you got some superb bar that actually does work, then more power to you. I'm a skeptic, but that doesn't mean I'm saying you're a liar or what you're describing is impossible; just improbable.

I've had my SSD strut bar in for 15000 miles now and I am very glad I did it. I removed it to install my springs recently and then reinstalled it after I was done. Before removing it I tested to see if it had loosened and it had not. Also the forces act on the strut tower tops AND studs. While the 15 ft lb clamping force is minimal, it doesn't seem to impede the intended effect. My guess is that's because the primary force is against the studs.

 

I also highly recommend this upgrade and after 15k nothing was loosened or damaged because of it.

[gathermewool]

Firstly, I just bought an SSD strut bar, so I can say for myself, in this specific application, what I think. I think that's much fairer than comparing to the past. I'll keep an open mind and will keep the bar if I feel that it actually does help. I'm not into bling, so I got the black bar.

 

//

 

I've only tried two bars, which were installed on my previous '08 STI and wasn't impressed. I can't recall the makes of the bars (sorry for that - kind of kills my case), but the holes at each end were way bigger than the strut top studs.

 

I felt no difference in performance.

 

I didn't see any chafing beneath the bar, which told me that the strut towers were pretty rigid. I could infer from the lack of chafing that the clamping force of the nuts was enough to keep the bar from moving, but can't see that being the case at such a low torque value.

 

I'll concede that an STI likely has a stiffer front end than my current '15 Legacy. That being the case, I'll also concede that there IS the possibility that a properly engineered bar might stiffen up the front end a bit. I still don't buy that it makes it feel like you're riding on rails, all by itself.

Edited December 8, 2019 by gathermewool

[aki334]

That is no problem, the whole world is installing strut towers bars on sport cars, and most of them come from factory with a bar and then we have one or two geniuses that had nothing in their lives but farming machines, tractors and possibly their first car telling everyone else that strut bars are BS. Of course any car you test will feel much better than a tractor in cross winds. Also if you are posting your fuelly stats that tells me you are concerned about fuel consumption and must drive slower than most of us, so you do not need tower brace.

 

This forum is supposed to be for people helping each other, not to put others down and tell them how smarter you are.

 

All of you sooner or later if not already deep down inside of you know that 6th generation is very very loose in strong winds comparing to other cars and as I said one day be a man come here and admit. I work on cars for living 24 years and know how they are supposed to react especially when you had many under your belt to compare with. SSD strut tower brace is amazing, I have nothing from them nor I am advertising them, but guys that want to invest in bar I suggest that one and to stay away from the toothpick ones that flex. I also recommend putting some masking tape under the bar part that mounts to the strut tower to avoid any metal to metal contact.

 

Trust me guys SSD bar works good when you come on the paved roads and highways.

Edited December 8, 2019 by aki334

[gathermewool]

Simmer down, dude. I posted based on my own personal experience.

 

Who mentioned a tractor?

 

Are you saying that I should drive like a maniac on the highway? Like most of us here, we get our kicks in our DD's in on-off-ramps and on the back-roads.

 

Besides, if you can't get at least 29 MPG in a Legacy, a large portion of your commute is city/traffic or you don't know how to drive efficiently. I can start a thread about how you should be driving if you'd like. I don't mind.

 

//

 

All kidding about your ridiculous post aside, I just said that I bought an SSD bar. It should be here between 13 and 20DEC. I'll let you know what I think.

 

I also said that I'm open-minded, and will give as honest a review as possible, regardless of my own personal experience.

Edited December 9, 2019 by gathermewool

[SSpeed]

This thread kind of cracks me up, I drive many of the same roads as you. I have a '17 3.6r Legacy. I don't feel anything of what you describe and I've been driving all sorts of different cars for 34 years, the Legacy is stable AF. Do you still have the tires that came on the car new? If so, they are very thin sidewalled tires and did make the car feel not very confident, especially while braking.

[gathermewool]

This thread kind of cracks me up, I drive many of the same roads as you. I have a '17 3.6r Legacy. I don't feel anything of what you describe and I've been driving all sorts of different cars for 34 years, the Legacy is stable AF. Do you still have the tires that came on the car new? If so, they are very thin sidewalled tires and did make the car feel not very confident, especially while braking.

 

Use the quote feature, please. This thread is a year and a half old. AKI (the OP) is still posting, but please make sure to point your question at him, if applicable. I've had some complaints myself.

 

As for me, I've got STI BBS wheels and aggressive AS tires (Conti DWS). I don't think anyone would argue that these are soft tires.

 

My opinion remains that even after nearly identical alignments (Legacy is at -.7* camber), our '14 FXT with stock wheels and Premier A/S tires (then) and Ascend GT (now) handles much better at highway speeds. I find that a higher-riding CUV handling better than a sedan to be contrary to expectations.

Edited December 9, 2019 by gathermewool