Mach V Dan Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 As mentioned above, I think you have to take these numbers in context. The car market is very tough right now. Ford and GM are swimming in red ink -- Ford's debt was just declared "junk" status. Daimler-Chrysler is struggling to make any money. Overall there is huge overcapacity in the industry. Fuel prices are high, interest rates are up. No manufacturer is doing that well. (Okay, maybe Porsche.) But all in all, it's a very tough market. The Subaru picture doesn't look terrible to me. Sales are solid, and the company has good product, good press, and solid R&D. Now, you want to read some BAD numbers? Look at Mitsubishi. --Dan Mach V FastWRX.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yearly numbers. New all-time annual record. http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/Temp/Sites/1571/9436cb7287614981802837389c9fc5c8/Subaru_YearEnd_%202005_Sales4Web.doc Good stuff 2004 for comparison http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/DotNet/Newsroom/Query.aspx?SiteName=Subaru&Entity=PRAsset&SF_PRAsset_PRAssetID_EQ=95874&XSL=PressRelease&Title=Releases&Cache=True I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yearly numbers. New all-time annual record. http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/Temp/Sites/1571/9436cb7287614981802837389c9fc5c8/Subaru_YearEnd_%202005_Sales4Web.doc Good stuff 2004 for comparison http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/DotNet/Newsroom/Query.aspx?SiteName=Subaru&Entity=PRAsset&SF_PRAsset_PRAssetID_EQ=95874&XSL=PressRelease&Title=Releases&Cache=True They can say wahtever they want, but I doubt that they are truly happy with those results. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 The year-2-year Legacy and Forester numbers are down. I remember reading something about how they were shooting for a ~210,000 goal. I think the whole auto industry is down, but Subaru's news isn't that bad. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I think that is gonna be the theme for automakers this year, and for the near future. Either they are doing HORRIBLY, or they are just mildly dissappointed. I don't think that anybody in the auto-biz are making money hand over fist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintinet Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 http://www.newratings.com/analyst_news/article_1171607.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach_six Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Maybe rising gas prices shyed people away from AWD cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDFan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Another thing to note that is that SOA can't sell cars that aren't at the dealerships. I don't what's going on, but Impreza inventory at my local area dealers is really low compared all the other models (excepting maybe the Bajas). A quick check on fitzmall.com shows 15 Impreza models (many of which are leftover '05s), compared to 33 Tribecas, 78 Foresters, and 92 Legacy's (including Outbacks). I checked a few other local dealers and the story is similar. I think the reason Impreza sales are so low right now compared to the other Subarus is that they just aren't available for purchase. So that raises the question, where are the Imprezas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach_six Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I have them, you want one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDFan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Ideally, I would get a 2006 LGT Ltd wagon. There are three units just like what I want at local dealers. But what I really need is more of a commuter car, so I am now leaning toward getting a used WRX wagon. Preferably a low-mileage 2002-2003 model. I like the bugeye look better than the 2004+, and I wouldn't buy the 2006 since they went to the 2.5L motor (fuel economy will be so bad I might as well buy the nicer Legacy instead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Pimp Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Actually the 2006 wrx only gets 1mpg worse that the 2005 because of revised gearing and final drive ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDFan Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 That's interesting, I haven't read up on the transmission and gearing changes for '06. But that is using the standard EPA estimates, right? I'm not sure how much I trust them. What matters to me is what the fuel consumption would look like cruising at 60-65 mph, since that's where my car spends most of its life. I would think the 2.0 might still be better at those speeds even with the gearing changes (though the 2.5 might have the nod at somewhat higher cruising speeds). I'm assuming a speed of 60-65 mph, that you're in 5th gear and sufficiently low rpm to be off boost, and then it's just a matter of the engine capacity in liters and engine rpm that dominate the fuel consumption. Does that sound reasonable, or am I missing something? I thought I read that some folks were getting in the upper 20's (maybe pushing 30) mpg on the highway in the WRX. My current car is rated something like 25/36, but I routinely get in the 34-36 mpg range (with 32-40 being the historical range). I found the gear ratios for the 2005 and 2006 models on cars101.com, but the 5MT gear ratios look the same (although the final drive dropped from 3.9 to 3.7). Does anyone have a link to table showing rpm vs. gear vs. speed? That would be more useful. I dunno. I think if I got a 2006 WRX, I'd want the Limited version. And if I'm paying that much, I might as well spend a little more and get the Legacy. The funny thing is, my wife might be on board with that because when I point out an Impreza wagon on the road she says they look too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 You can regularly get 26+MPG on the LGT(cruise+highway). I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDFan Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Still, 26 mpg isn't so hot when you're used to 34+. Especially considering going from buying regular to premium gas. But I guess I could overlook that if everything else about the car is nice. I found another thread showing the speed vs. rpm tables for most of the popular Subaru engine/tranny combinations, and the LGT with 5EAT can cruise at 60 mph in 5th gear at only 2250 rpm. That's not too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
problemcat13 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Business aside (sales aren't bad compared to the industry averages), my opinion on the looks: The front end of the B9 is ugly. Ugly. Very ugly. I was horrified to see the style of the B9 move to the Impreza. "Oh no, what have they done?" If they put that front-end on the legacy (which I'm planning to buy in the next year), I will go to an Acura or Nissan instead. As much as I love subaru, I can't stomach that front end. Of course, (if that happened) I could always wait and see if anyone on here perfects a nose swap to put on an 05-06 legacy front end and then just plan on that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintinet Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Just buy a used 95 or 96. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Still, 26 mpg isn't so hot when you're used to 34+. Especially considering going from buying regular to premium gas. But I guess I could overlook that if everything else about the car is nice. Yeah, that is a step down... but what is the performance difference? I have a 4wd truck that gets 14-18mpg, and takes 20 gallons of the cheap stuff, so is still fairly expensive. When I go to the LGT later this year, it will cost me about the same for 16-17 gallons of premium, but 26MPG is roughly 10 better than I am getting... I am going to be gaining significant performance, but losing some measure of utility... It is all perspective, and what you're looking for, and it takes fuel to move forward... it's just a matter of how much for how fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDFan Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 IwannaSportSedan, those are all good points. Obviously the performance will be far better in a LGT than my current Saturn SL2. Actually, I really don't need that kind of performance, I'd be happy with a 200hp 2.0T or even the 180hp V6 in my wife's car. Heck, there are some days when I can trick myself into thinking that my SL2 isn't half bad (despite the unresponsive slushbox auto). But I think all the other car options are underpowered, too expensive, or too unreliable. And now I need room for a child seat (rear-facing for the next few months), so that cuts out "fun cars" like the Mini. At least the Subie has a high WAF (wife acceptance factor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintinet Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yeah, unless you get a loud exhaust system (speaking from experience). My kids and I loved it, but..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDFan Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Yeah, I wasn't planning any exhaust mods. However, the AccessPort sounds awfully attractive. My problem is that the car may have a high WAF, but the add-ons and accessories don't. After all the money for the car, there's not much money left for the toys to go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 AWDFan, Do you already have your legacy? It sounds like you are describing a naturally aspirated subaru... a 2.5i Limited, SE, or a 3.0-powered outback. Better mileage, just as reliable, AWD, and the same amount of room for the child seat. The 2.5i models are updated for this year, with more than 170hp, IIRC, and the 3.0 Outbacks have 250hp flat 6 engines, with less torque, but slightly better mileage. However, if performance is really on your list, the Turbo will be the natural choice. And with AWD costing power, the mileage difference won't be as significant as you describe your Saturn getting 34mpg... So the turbo isn't THAT big of a fuel useage detractor, comparing to other Subarus. It sounds like you would be a prime candidate for a Legacy 3.0R, if it were offered. I figure you'd be looking at Outbacks, and had mentioned it, if you wanted one. the "serious" version isn't for everybody. (not for me either, although I would buy one before looking at a lot of the SUVs out there...) I get the Wife thing... I mention things like summer vs winter wheels, and an exhaust system... she goes foggy-eyed, and groans about the extra money on top of a new car payment... I think I still need to work on her, to convince her that this is my hobby, when I can afford it... she can spend her money on hobbys, too, but my hobby money lives in the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDFan Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Those are all good points. The 2.5i would definitely be on my list to test drive I suppose, even if I were already leaning toward the GT. My concerns about the 2.5i aren't really the power so much as all the little things that are better on the GT, like better brakes and suspension, no rear LSD (if I'm not mistaken), and (for auto drivers) the 5EAT instead of the 4EAT. Maybe I'm just jaded by my current car but I don't think I'll like the 4EAT even with SportShift (4 gears just isn't enough for a good range IMHO). Right now I don't know for sure which transmission I'd go with, the AT is most likely right now (between my commute and my wife's aversion to driving stick). Mind you, I haven't test driven the 2.5i yet, so my opinion could change. The GT just looks so much better on paper. I wasn't particularly looking at Outbacks since I don't need the extra features over a Legacy and they cost more. But I'd still consider an Outback. The local dealership (fitzmall) is offering some '05 Outback XT LTDs in 5MT for a tempting price. As for the H6, my wife would actually like to get an H6 Outback (LLBean in particular). She prefers having a 6cyl over a turbo 4cyl, and I can't really argue against that, they're both good. In an ideal world I get a LGT for myself and LLBean Outback for my wife. In reality, she needs the better car more than I do, so we might get the Outback for her and I'll stick with my current car or get another little commuter car (maybe an N/A Impreza wagon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Anyone know the US Sales figures for Q4 2005? Ada///M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 AWDFan, I can see why your wife would like an outback... higher driving position, 6-cyl, options and branding... I'd get her what she wants, on condition that you get something fun, too. Like a 2.5RS coupe or something, and enough lee-way to turbocharge it, and have some real fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Anyone know the US Sales figures for Q4 2005? Ada///M. Check out media.subaru.com and you can find all the monthly sales reports to compile the Q4 results. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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