2020 WRX Prototype (new pics)

[covertrussian]

While these numbers may not be huge, it'll keep a different demographic in the Subaru fold, which might be important.

 

My next car is going to be a wagon, and it's looking like a Volvo V60, Merc E-class, or maybe an Audi Allroad. And oddly, in the same breath, I'm considering a certain 13yo low-mileage LGT wagon.

 

Subaru used to occupy this space, but not any longer. A performance wagon would be great, but at least something that can get out of its own way.

 

If Subaru decides to put the 2.4L DIT into Outback, wouldn't that fit the bill? Or would it look too rugged/unrefined still?

[Tronic]

Subaru owns the wagon market over here, there is nothing that comes close performance-price wise. Interesting that Subaru obviously couldn't be bothered making a new left hand drive wagon for the USA market and that is probably your problem we are right hand drive the same as Japan so all the JDM used cars come pouring in over here and they are cheap. Cars used to be so expensive over here but how things have changed.

[ehsnils]

LHD wagons are frequent here in Sweden from most brands. Manufacturers that don't have a wagon in their portfolio will lose a considerable chunk of customers.

[LostonPavement]

It is still frequently shocking how few people today can drive a mt car.

[Tronic]

It is still frequently shocking how few people today can drive a mt car.

 

I know but its not helping us because many manufacturers are starting to phase out the pure manual.

 

Okay I get it, I do own an automatic car, great if your stuck in traffic all week getting to work but if you want a true drivers car then a manual is the way to go.

 

Living in hope that Subaru keeps the 6MT in the new design or at least keep it as an option.

[ehsnils]

Fun thing is that even with the CVT and all the computer support it's still in reality not improving the mileage from what I had with a manual. But now the difference is just a few percent and not like 15% worse with a slushbox over a manual.

[Tronic]

Fun thing is that even with the CVT and all the computer support it's still in reality not improving the mileage from what I had with a manual. But now the difference is just a few percent and not like 15% worse with a slushbox over a manual.

 

Until you get the likes of an 8 speed auto of course, however those people that want a "Sports Car" really don't give a rats ass about the mileage figures. If you want power then you simply have to pay at the pump for the gas, its a simple as that. A turbo is far more economical than an N/A, until you put your foot down hard so I'm still in favour of say a 2.4L turbo instead of a 4L N/A engine, its just you really need to look after the oil.

 

I'm thinking at least 350Hp in the new Subaru or I cannot be bothered buying one. Just not a big enough jump in power to notice the difference in what I'm currently driving.

[spb]

I just do not see subaru making this big of a jump.

They know their cars are capable of that power. They also know that many, if not most, buyers will modify their cars to get up there in hp. So instead of selling a "maxed out" car they sell "a car with high potential". This allows them to save money on warranty claims.

 

I'm thinking at least 350Hp in the new Subaru or I cannot be bothered buying one.

[Tronic]

Okay so reluctantly I started investigating buying a brand new Subaru and keeping it 100% stock and then taking it to one of our tuning shops to see what you can get out of it.

 

I would be interested in other peoples experience on what you can get out of the stock car. We have 98 Octane pump gas over here that is readily available at all Mobil and BP stations. Going by what I'm reading you should be able to get another 50Hp out of the current model without doing any more than an ECU Flash.

[ehsnils]

Notice that the US has a different octane scaling than the rest of the world, and I suspect that it's octane rating of 98 RON you have, which means that it's an octane rating of 94 PON, which is used in the US.

 

 

 

See this post: https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/general-reference-terms-model-codes-etc-451.html?p=1757501&highlight=octane#post1757501

 

 

So you might not get another 50 hp out of it. A change and re-tune for E85 might yield the desired effect, but that would require a higher compression ratio or some kind of boost like supercharging the engine.

 

 

If you haven't found the thread of supercharging a H6 before, look at this one: https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68613&highlight=rotrex+power+tomcat

[Tronic]

No I'm not talking about the 3.0R, I wouldn't touch it.

 

I'm talking about a brand new WRX STi and trying to get another 50Hp out of it.

 

I didn't realise the 2.5L engine in the current STi was so dated. I'm not surprised so many people are hanging out for the next generation STi.

 

I just hits 300Hp in its current format so 350Hp should be easy.

[laughdamon]

I keep saying this anywhere I can: bring a 300-hp, 6MT wagon with a nice interior to the US market, and I will put down a deposit tomorrow.

 

If it's going to be an auto/CVT, it needs closer to 350hp.

 

Sounds like you'll be getting a Volvo...

[Tronic]

Sounds like you'll be getting a Volvo...

 

Doesn't look like Volvo make a manual for our market. I was thinking that Audi must still make a manual but....no. It actually looks like the manual transmission is truly dead. You have to move to a "purists sports car" to retain it and even they are getting rare. Subaru are really going to mess up if they don't at least keep the 6MT as an option in the WRX STi.

[ehsnils]

For purists soon only some obscure British car makes remains - if any.

 

 

Even trucks goes for automatic gearboxes these days. Even dual clutch solutions exist on trucks.

[shralp]

The lack of manual options in anything other than a pure sports car is what caused me to pull the trigger on my ‘08 Outback XT two years ago. Beacause the interior was in such good shape and the mileage low at 58k I figured that I can always replace mechanicals as needed if I want to stay in a manual wagon with decent power. The OBP paint isn’t in the best shape from being parked outside the first 7 years of its life, but it can always be repainted if it gets bad enough. With a safe stage 2 tune on a VF52 I have every intention of driving it into the ground. Such are the lengths we need to go to these days

[laughdamon]

The lack of manual options in anything other than a pure sports car is what caused me to pull the trigger on my ‘08 Outback XT two years ago.

 

Going to be listing my 08 OBXT soon and hoping to find someone with similar aspirations! Love the sleeper style.

[Wompom]

The lack of manual options in anything other than a pure sports car is what caused me to pull the trigger on my ‘08 Outback XT two years ago. Beacause the interior was in such good shape and the mileage low at 58k I figured that I can always replace mechanicals as needed if I want to stay in a manual wagon with decent power. The OBP paint isn’t in the best shape from being parked outside the first 7 years of its life, but it can always be repainted if it gets bad enough. With a safe stage 2 tune on a VF52 I have every intention of driving it into the ground. Such are the lengths we need to go to these days

 

I still have a hard time believing the market is not big enough to continue producing manual cars.

Between all the forums and people i know, most miss the availability from most manufacturers.

In for the long haul is likely going to be where we all end up if we choose to keep going this route. I picked up my manual LGT for this reason.

[ehsnils]

The problem is that every combination of engine and gearbox need a certification for every body produced. Primarily emissions certifications.

[dgoodhue]

I still have a hard time believing the market is not big enough to continue producing manual cars.

Between all the forums and people i know, most miss the availability from most manufacturers.

In for the long haul is likely going to be where we all end up if we choose to keep going this route. I picked up my manual LGT for this reason.

 

The production numbers don't lie, new car owners aren't buying Legacy's with MT or wagons. The last 2012 GT production was 227. The 2007 4th Gen Legacy Wagon GT (auto) was 161.

[spb]

Those years were bad for gas prices. Might have been a contributor.

Also, consumer confidence was pretty low during that period.

[Tronic]

Some manufacturers like Porsche dropped the manual and then realized it was a mistake and brought it back.

 

What Subaru needs to do is offer it as an option. Note that as we are Right Hand Drive we are already getting options that are not available in left hand drive. Different countries have very different requirements. Also if all the other manufacturers drop the manual, it only makes more sense to offer a manual.

 

Seriously its getting bad, if I want a manual its either an STi or the likes of a Porsche GT3 !!! just slightly different pricing, we can get FOUR STis for the price of ONE Porsche over here. Pretty sure that 99% of people wanting a manual will buy the Subaru.

[klxdrt]

When I was a little boy, my father had a 30 something Ford 4cyl coupe with a nice big steel crank you would stick on a small hole below the radiator. He let me handle the spark control on center of the steer wheel.

 

If everything was not set right the engine would backfire & the crank would spring backwards & break your arm.

 

I thought it was strange seeing a lot of guys with broken arms when he took me to the local beer garden.

 

Years later when I was old enough to drive, the 36 Dodge I learned on had an electric foot starter.

 

He said electric starters were for sissy's he missed his crank starter.

 

If he tried to drive today's cars, he'd go bonkers.

 

"Guys, I feel your lack of stick shift pain."

 

regards,

 

klxdrt

[Brady]

Those years were bad for gas prices. Might have been a contributor.

Also, consumer confidence was pretty low during that period.

 

No, and no.

 

Because Subuaru is looking at it's 10th consecutive record sales year, and as others have noted, the Manual is about a wash in fuel economy compared to the automatic anymore, but it's never been worse.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180604/RETAIL05/180609994/subaru-service-capacity-sales

[Tronic]

It all depends on what you find to read on the net, there is no clear consensus on whats going to be in the 2020/21 Subaru WRX. The only thing out there is what it will "Hopefully" look like.

 

What is clear is that it needs to be a big step up to fill what is becoming a large void in the lower cost performance car market. If you want a AWD car with a 6MT what else is there ?

 

The "Big" engine cars in our market are now dead. Ford and Holden have pulled the pin on making dinosaurs with 6 liter engines.

[spb]

when I was talking about gas prices and consumer confidence I was specifically taking about gt models. these factors affect consumer interest in sporty cars.