xelu01 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Hello Everyone, I have a 2016 Subaru Legacy 2.5i limited and just hit 60k miles. I want to do the 60k maintenance but i feel it is pretty expensive for what they are offering. My Subaru Dealership is charging 679 for the below before tax. Is this too much for a 60k maintenance? I heard the spark plugs take about 3-4 hours alone for Subarus, is this true? Change Engine Oil and Filter Install BG MOA for lifetime engine protection Install BG Ethanol Defender Rotate tires, checka nd adjst inflation level and check tread depth Replace Engine Air Filter Replace Fuel Filter Replace Spark Plugs (If Applicable) Inspect brake pads and brake system Replace cabin air filter and add BG Frigi Fresh Perform Vechicle Multipoint inspection and vital fluid analysis Review Maintence plan Complimentary car wash Website says the below but above is the brochure they gave me at the dealership. Replace: Air cleaner element Replace: Brake Fluid / Clutch Fluid (Manual Only) Inspect: Disc brake pads and discs, front and rear axle boots and axle shaft joint portions Inspect: CVT Fluid Replace: A/C Filter Inspect: Clutch operation Inspect: Drive belt(s) [Except camshaft] Inspect: Engine Coolant Systems, hoses and connections Replace: Engine oil Replace: Engine oil filter Inspect: Fuel systems, lines and connections Inspect: Inspect brake lines and check operation of parking and service brake system Perform: Rotate and Inspect Tires Replace: Spark plugs Inspect: Steering and suspension Inspect: Transmission/Differential (Front & Rear) lubricants (Gear oil) Inspect: Wheel Bearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Hi there and welcome to the forums... Essentially, what you're going to need for your 60k is the 30k service, plus spark plugs and apparently the fuel filter. I thought my FF is in my gas tank so I don't think I've done that. Anyway, I think some of those optional things aren't necessary - unless you're having a problem with poor performance or economy. Your engine oil - which should be a 0w20 synthetic since you're running a 2016 2.5 engine (this is called the FB series engine) - is already full of additives and protectants. And, if you're doing your maintenance on time, for me, I think it's not necessary. Same with the ethanol defender. Unless you're letting your gas sit for months(?) at a time and the ethanol is separating in the gas tank, you should be okay without it. The air cleaner is about 1 star out of 10 stars to do it yourself, and the cabin air filter is about 2 stars out of 10 stars in terms of difficulty. A lot of what you're listing is regular, preventative maintenance. I will be honest and say I don't change my brake fluid per specifications. I usually change them at the same time I do a brake job - which is roughly every 4 years. That doesn't make me right, but I don't have any problems running a little longer. You're absolutely right, the spark plugs on the boxer engine is a lot more complicated compared to the inline and V engines. But, I don't know about 3-4 hours. That seems absurd. There are several videos all over YouTube of people doing their own plug jobs in less than 1 hour, some even less than 30 minutes. Again, these are people that have done the job in the past several times over. When I started doing my own oil changes, the first one took me over an hour because I was triple checking all my work and specs. Now, I can get done in less than 30 minutes (I usually do them in 30 though so the oil can drain thoroughly...) Some of what you're mentioning above is inspections. My local dealerships often have a special for a free multi point inspection with any service. What I used to do when I lived in a townhouse and wasn't allowed to do my own oil changes - I would do everything else I could, and then do an oil change at the dealership and get the free inspection, and be out the door somewhere around $30-35 total (conventional oil)... Tire rotation does cost more in labor, but I would be surprised if this was more than $40 or so. The cars are on a lift, so it's an exceptionally fast job. So your big bears on the list you mentioned are the spark plugs, the oil and oil filter, and the inspections. You can easily do the engine and cabin air filter yourself. I'd skip the other stuff you listed on the "recommended" list, unless you're having a performance-related problem. The official OEM Engine Air Filter I think was around $13 online, and the cabin filter was around $16 online, I did those recently back in September as part of my yearly DIY... I think the line-item cost for the Spark Plugs for the 2.5 was somewhere around $200-250 which included the parts (which are only like $25-30 bucks) and the labor... I don't know if you're one of those people that wants to DIY oil changes or what not, but if you do, I suggest the OEM filter as it has the proper bypass specifications, and you'll also need the "crush washer" that helps the plug tighten onto the oil pan. Oh, and your 2.5 oil filter is top-mount, meaning it's a breeze to install and remove. You'll still need to crawl underneath to drain your oil, though. A lot of us suggest Fumoto drain valve installation. It's a $20ish dollar valve that helps make your oil changes really, really mess-free. Don't forget, your engine calls for 0w20 fully synthetic engine oil. I've personally only used Mobil 1 (high mileage for me, now, after 75k), but I've heard really good things about Pennzoil Platinum. In reality, any name-brand synthetic oil will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsmith Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I don't know if you're one of those people that wants to DIY oil changes or what not, but if you do, I suggest the OEM filter as it has the proper bypass specifications, and you'll also need the "crush washer" that helps the filter tighten onto the engine block. Oh, and your 2.5 oil filter is top-mount, meaning it's a breeze to install and remove. You'll still need to crawl underneath to drain your oil, though. A lot of us suggest Fumoto drain valve installation. It's a $20ish dollar valve that helps make your oil changes really, really mess-free. Don't forget, your engine calls for 0w20 fully synthetic engine oil. I've personally only used Mobil 1 (high mileage for me, now, after 75k), but I've heard really good things about Pennzoil Platinum. In reality, any name-brand synthetic oil will be good. Excellent, informative reply Pilot, except for the following..... The crush washer is used to seal the drain plug to the oil pan, not the oil filter. DO NOT use a crush on the oil filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Website says the below but above is the brochure they gave me at the dealership. My advice is to ignore the dealer and follow Subaru's published maintenance schedule found in the warranty & maintenance booklet you should have received with the car: http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=226470&d=1457854507 Most things on the lists you posted are inspection-only items, which take very little time. If you are so inclined, replacing both the engine air filter and cabin (HVAC) air filter yourself will take less than 20 minutes. In my opinion, the dealer's proposed charge is way too much. Even if you want the dealer to do everything, you can usually save money by specifying individual services rather than paying for a bundled "xx,000 mile package." Insist that the dealer follow Subaru's maintenance schedule, not their own (inflated) list. "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I would skip all the BG add ons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Excellent, informative reply Pilot, except for the following..... The crush washer is used to seal the drain plug to the oil pan, not the oil filter. DO NOT use a crush on the oil filter. I thank you very much for the correction. I’ve done several oil changes myself and would never think about trying to put the crush washer on the filter. Somewhere between chasing around a toddler, thinking about the black gasket on the filter, and tightening the drain plug I blurred them together. I apologize for the misinformation. Oh, and if you have a Fumoto, you don’t need to change the crush washer because you’re not removing the valve every oil change like you do to the oil plug. I've edited the original post to fix the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtdog Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 That "BG" stuff is about as useful as Marvel Mystery oil, or STP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornichoe Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 When I started doing my own oil changes, the first one took me over an hour because I was triple checking all my work and specs. Now, I can get done in less than 30 minutes (I usually do them in 30 though so the oil can drain thoroughly...) Absolutely right! I just got done doing my first oil change today. And I have to say it needed a bit of patience. Once you do it once, its a piece of cake. I've done oil changes on my other cars before, but this was the first time on the legacy and I ran into some unexpected issues. After you do it the first time, its a breeze after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meaux Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 That "BG" stuff is about as useful as Marvel Mystery oil, or STPBG Fuel Treatment worked wonders on my Hi-Mileage Porsche 968, BMW 530i and the SVT Lightnin' injectors... Just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chowser51 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 $75? Change Engine Oil and Filter Skip Install BG MOA for lifetime engine protection Skip Install BG Ethanol Defender Free Rotate tires, checka nd adjst inflation level and check tread depth Diy $10 Replace Engine Air Filter Why? Replace Fuel Filter Too early? Replace Spark Plugs (If Applicable) Free Inspect brake pads and brake system Diy $10 Replace cabin air filter and add BG Frigi Fresh Free Perform Vechicle Multipoint inspection and vital fluid analysis Free Review Maintence plan Free Complimentary car wash Definitely don’t let them do that. I am about 2k miles away from 60k. All they will do is my oil change. I will change my cabin and air filter after I pull in so they see me doing it. I do it everytime and they know not to ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguy Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I agree to follow the maintenance guide in the manual. The cabin filter takes 10 minutes and the engine air filter 5 minutes. Can do both for well under $50. Oil and filter with full synthetic should be less than $50 total out of pocket if you supply your own oil from Walmart ($22 for the oil, $7 for the filter and about $15-$20 for labor). Tire rotate is $20 or less. As for the rest, leave it alone...dealers don't make money selling cars...they make all of their money maintaining them off folks like you that do decide to pay the $679 for around $100 worth of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 The spark plugs should be changed around 60. On my Gen4 Legacy it needed them every 30k. The boxer layout has its drawbacks in this regard. You won’t make it 100k on them. And if you do, they won’t be operating near peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xelu01 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 Hi there and welcome to the forums... Essentially, what you're going to need for your 60k is the 30k service, plus spark plugs and apparently the fuel filter. I thought my FF is in my gas tank so I don't think I've done that. Anyway, I think some of those optional things aren't necessary - unless you're having a problem with poor performance or economy. Your engine oil - which should be a 0w20 synthetic since you're running a 2016 2.5 engine (this is called the FB series engine) - is already full of additives and protectants. And, if you're doing your maintenance on time, for me, I think it's not necessary. Same with the ethanol defender. Unless you're letting your gas sit for months(?) at a time and the ethanol is separating in the gas tank, you should be okay without it. The air cleaner is about 1 star out of 10 stars to do it yourself, and the cabin air filter is about 2 stars out of 10 stars in terms of difficulty. A lot of what you're listing is regular, preventative maintenance. I will be honest and say I don't change my brake fluid per specifications. I usually change them at the same time I do a brake job - which is roughly every 4 years. That doesn't make me right, but I don't have any problems running a little longer. You're absolutely right, the spark plugs on the boxer engine is a lot more complicated compared to the inline and V engines. But, I don't know about 3-4 hours. That seems absurd. There are several videos all over YouTube of people doing their own plug jobs in less than 1 hour, some even less than 30 minutes. Again, these are people that have done the job in the past several times over. When I started doing my own oil changes, the first one took me over an hour because I was triple checking all my work and specs. Now, I can get done in less than 30 minutes (I usually do them in 30 though so the oil can drain thoroughly...) Some of what you're mentioning above is inspections. My local dealerships often have a special for a free multi point inspection with any service. What I used to do when I lived in a townhouse and wasn't allowed to do my own oil changes - I would do everything else I could, and then do an oil change at the dealership and get the free inspection, and be out the door somewhere around $30-35 total (conventional oil)... Tire rotation does cost more in labor, but I would be surprised if this was more than $40 or so. The cars are on a lift, so it's an exceptionally fast job. So your big bears on the list you mentioned are the spark plugs, the oil and oil filter, and the inspections. You can easily do the engine and cabin air filter yourself. I'd skip the other stuff you listed on the "recommended" list, unless you're having a performance-related problem. The official OEM Engine Air Filter I think was around $13 online, and the cabin filter was around $16 online, I did those recently back in September as part of my yearly DIY... I think the line-item cost for the Spark Plugs for the 2.5 was somewhere around $200-250 which included the parts (which are only like $25-30 bucks) and the labor... I don't know if you're one of those people that wants to DIY oil changes or what not, but if you do, I suggest the OEM filter as it has the proper bypass specifications, and you'll also need the "crush washer" that helps the plug tighten onto the oil pan. Oh, and your 2.5 oil filter is top-mount, meaning it's a breeze to install and remove. You'll still need to crawl underneath to drain your oil, though. A lot of us suggest Fumoto drain valve installation. It's a $20ish dollar valve that helps make your oil changes really, really mess-free. Don't forget, your engine calls for 0w20 fully synthetic engine oil. I've personally only used Mobil 1 (high mileage for me, now, after 75k), but I've heard really good things about Pennzoil Platinum. In reality, any name-brand synthetic oil will be good. Thank you very much, Very Informative! I was thinking the same, how can all these inspections, oil change and spark plugs cost so much. I am going to let them do oil and tire rotation which will cost me about 70. I will see how much spark plugs replacement cost, if a lot will grab spark plugs and go to independent car shop. Oil filter, Cabin Air Filter will change myself, or maybe they will do Oil filter for me. Fumoto sounds wonderful, once i do my oil changes for myself will do this. My gas mileage did drop, what would i do to help it go back up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xelu01 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 My advice is to ignore the dealer and follow Subaru's published maintenance schedule found in the warranty & maintenance booklet you should have received with the car: http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=226470&d=1457854507 Most things on the lists you posted are inspection-only items, which take very little time. If you are so inclined, replacing both the engine air filter and cabin (HVAC) air filter yourself will take less than 20 minutes. In my opinion, the dealer's proposed charge is way too much. Even if you want the dealer to do everything, you can usually save money by specifying individual services rather than paying for a bundled "xx,000 mile package." Insist that the dealer follow Subaru's maintenance schedule, not their own (inflated) list. Yea it is a lot, I am going to do individual services and save some cash instead of following what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xelu01 Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 Yea it is a lot, I am going to do individual services and save some cash instead of following what they say. The spark plugs should be changed around 60. On my Gen4 Legacy it needed them every 30k. The boxer layout has its drawbacks in this regard. You won’t make it 100k on them. And if you do, they won’t be operating near peak. Any spark plugs are good if i purchase, or are there some that maybe better to purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguy Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Oil filter, Cabin Air Filter will change myself, or maybe they will do Oil filter for me. Fumoto sounds wonderful When you have someone change your oil you MUST let them also change your oil filter my friend. As far as a Fumoto valve is concerned, they are great and I have been using them for over 20 years. If you plan to change your own oil either buy a Fumoto or buy an oil extractor like I have now. https://www.ebay.com/i/191385770843?chn=ps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Agreed. When you do an oil change, you do a filter change. I think you might have mixed up the engine air filter which is located under the hood just by the intake for the oil filter. Regarding spark plugs, my preference is to keep everything OEM, using the original Subaru parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguy Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Just buy the OEM plugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xelu01 Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 I assumed they would change oil filter as well but not 100% and will get regular spark plugs. They were trying to convince me to do the 60k interval maintenance but didn't let it happen thanks to everyone. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguy Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 You cannot do an oil change properly unless you replace the oil, oil filter and crush washer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstater Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 You cannot do an oil change properly unless you replace the oil, oil filter and crush washer. I never change my crush washer... Fumoto is the way to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguy Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 If you have a Fumoto...than that is why you never replace your crush washer;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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