Winter Tires/Wheels and TPMS

[Pilot1226]

In the 2018 Legacy, I believe I read that the TPMS sensors are now self-registering. Does this mean if I have a second set of (winter) wheels with TPMS that I won't have to go through the whole routine of associating the second set of wheels with the computer so I don't get the TPMS light?

 

Does the TPMS light have any impact on the ASR, VTD, ES, or other control-related functions?

 

Basically, when I get my new ride, I'd be looking at buying an EXTRA set of OEM rims and putting some winters on it, and I'd probably spring for the OEM TPMS sensors as well. I don't necessarily think I'd get the alloy ones that are offered on the Limited trim, as there's a little wiggle room, I may consider the OEM Steelies with wheel covers.

 

 

 

 

From the Subaru website:

 

The base trim 2.5 Legacy has 17x7 steelies. The tire size is 225/55 R17

The 3.6R Limited I'm planning on has 18x7.5 alloys. The tire size is 225/50 R18.

 

The spare is 155/70 D17 in all cases.

 

My understanding is that I just need to make sure the circumference of the new tires are the same, right?

 

The steelies above are 84" with 777 revs/mile.

The alloys are 84.3" with 774 revs/mile.

[gathermewool]

I would be happy to hear this is the case. I don't ever run TPMS sensors in my winter setups, because I don't want to pay to have them setup or for a tool to do it myself.

 

I can't imagine the TPMS error indicator (e.g., in my case, no TPMS sensors installed) would defeat ANY safety feature. Can you imagine the lawsuit and backlash resulting from an accident that was (even assumed to have been) caused by the turning off of a safety feature without any indication? In other words, unlike "limp-mode", which causes your dash to light up like a Christmas tree, a TPMS issue will result in a "TPMS" light or an indicator that looks like a flat tire, possibly combined with something being displayed on the display, which is the case for our Legacy's.

 

The main concern is that all four tires are equal circumference, relative to each other, to prevent damage to AWD system. If all four tires are larger or smaller in circumference, the speedometer will be off by the percentage difference. The website that told you the circumference and revs/mile likely also gave you the MPH difference at difference speeds. I've installed larger tires in the past,, because they had 1/32" more initial tread depth AND were cheaper to purchse than the stock size. The difference in circumference was 3%, which was fine.

 

If you're thinking of getting tires that are substantially different, then you've got to think about transmission operation as it relates to your driving speed. If you drive 90 MPH on the highway most of the time, substantially smaller tires will mean your RPM will be higher. If you typically drive local roads, substantially larger tires may mean the transmission won't be able to shift into the highest final ratio (lowest RPM) or will hunt up and down, since the overall RPM will be lower.

 

Case in point, I installed 3% larger tires on my previous Civic. My daily drive consists largely of 30 MPH roads. At 35-40 MPH and low loads (no uphills) the transmission would shift to 5th and the torque converter would lock-up. I wonder if I had chosen 3% smaller tires instead, if I would have saved a little bit of gas due to the torque converter locking up sooner and staying locked up longer. Just food for thought.

[WILLINH]

I run 17" (225-55-17)winters on separate rims and no TPMS in the winter on my limited, never had any problems with anything not working. It is a little cheaper and a lot more tires to pick from.

[Pilot1226]

I wonder if there's a logistics problem with this approach, also.

 

I'd probably prefer to have the tires mounted at my local Costco - they do free rotations, nitrogen fill, balancing, and road hazard warranty for life - but I'd need room in the car to hold onto the old (dirty) tires. That might be an issue for me. I'd also have to trust Costco to put said wheels into my car.

 

Then again, I'm not even sure 4 mounted tires on the alloy rims would fit into the Outback cargo area even with the seats down.

 

I suppose if I really wanted to I could jack/jackstand my car and put the four winters on and take the four summers off, but I'd still have to figure out a way to get the tires mounted and balanced before I got them on the car.

 

If all this worked, I'd probably get the base 17" OEM steelies with the OEM Subaru wheel covers and just throw some Blizzaks on there.

[ammcinnis]

... I may consider the OEM Steelies with wheel covers.

 

Also consider the OEM 17-inch alloy wheels from Premium trim. They are exactly the right specs, and you can buy them (new) from your favorite Subaru parts department for less than $150 each.

[Pilot1226]

Also consider the OEM 17-inch alloy wheels from Premium trim. They are exactly the right specs, and you can buy them (new) from your favorite Subaru parts department for less than $150 each.

 

Good point, thanks. I guess it would be a question of price between the two.

[WILLINH]

I got my 4 wheels from tire-rack on clearance $90 a each. That was in OCT.-first on NOV.

[Pilot1226]

I got my 4 wheels from tire-rack on clearance $90 a each. That was in OCT.-first on NOV.

 

That's cool. I've used their steel wheels before, on my wife's Legacy, and she didn't care for the steelie look. Unfortunately, the OEM Subaru wheelcovers don't line up with the valve stem, so you can't use them. The result is one of those inferior clip-on wheel covers. She hated the look of the car the second I swapped the steelies on.

 

So, I'd probably go OEM.

 

Yeesh, 28111AL17A expensive! $233 per alloy wheel.

 

28111AL04A is only $127 per wheel for steelies. The OEM wheel covers are another $25 per.

 

Reminds me why I run all seasons all the time O.o

[gathermewool]

I just took off my '15 alloy with OEM tires and TPMS to swap on my steelies and Blizzak WS80s. I also just bought a new set of BBS wheels for next spring, so I'm debating selling the 17" alloys.

 

I'd meet you halfway for $500 - I live in south-eastern CT. Otherwise, I'll likely swap the winters onto the alloys for next year (ran out of time this year - installed the steelies/Blizzaks two nights ago, before the first snow!)

[Fiatz79]

Using 17" Blizzacks with TPMS sensors. It does seem that you can only have 1 set of sensors programmed at a time. (At least on the 2016 3.6r Limited).

[ammcinnis]

Yeesh, 28111AL17A expensive! $233 per alloy wheel.

 

In April, 2017 I paid $138.10 (including shipping) for a factory-new 28111AL00A wheel (17-inch alloy, 2015-2017 Legacy Premium).

[Pilot1226]

Using 17" Blizzacks with TPMS sensors. It does seem that you can only have 1 set of sensors programmed at a time. (At least on the 2016 3.6r Limited).

 

And how are you switching between the two sets of sensors? Are you using a tool like the Atek QuikSet or are you just bringing it to a shop, and how much do they charge you?

[ehsnils]

If you have cloned sensors in the winter set then it shouldn't be a big deal changing tires and no tool needed when changing wheel set.

[Pilot1226]

How do you do that? Is that possible with OEM sensors and wheels?

[ehsnils]

Just talk with the people mounting tires in a tire shop, they should be able to help you to get cloned sensors in the second set.

 

My winter wheels do have cloned sensors so there's no problems with reprogramming when I swap wheels. I got the cloned set from the dealer.

[Pilot1226]

Alright, good to know. Did you get your winter tires directly from your dealer too? I've found they're usually the more... expensive option.

[ehsnils]

Alright, good to know. Did you get your winter tires directly from your dealer too? I've found they're usually the more... expensive option.

Yes, I did that, maybe not the cheapest alternative, but it was easier since I also purchased the car new there. And I also needed the rims for the winter tires and then I thought it was easier that way. The price difference wasn't that big compared to alternatives though so it's not something I lose sleep over.

[Pilot1226]

I called the local Costco. They charge $15 a tire for mount and balance with nitrogen fill. Might be worth it for me to go this route, even at $60 a season, it’s essentially a free rotation too as long as i remember which tire goes where. Hmm.

[M.mikes13]

I got the sensors installed from Tire Rack. I'm not sure of the part # for the sensor, or whether or not it can be cloned. I guess I'll see what the dealer will charge me to have the tires installed and the sensors reset....

[Fiatz79]

And how are you switching between the two sets of sensors? Are you using a tool like the Atek QuikSet or are you just bringing it to a shop, and how much do they charge you?

 

Ended up bringing it to the dealer.

It was $92 for the tire swap and programming. (Would have been the same for programming).

[Pilot1226]

I wonder if all-weather tires are an option. They seem like a hybrid between a/s and winters without the need to swap. I imagine the tradeoff is lower tread life.

[crudzinskas]

I called the local Costco. They charge $15 a tire for mount and balance with nitrogen fill.

 

Just as an aside, if they charge less for normal air fill I would skip the nitrogen as it provides literally zero tangible benefits. As you probably know, air is already ~78% nitrogen.

[ehsnils]

I called the local Costco. They charge $15 a tire for mount and balance with nitrogen fill. Might be worth it for me to go this route, even at $60 a season, it’s essentially a free rotation too as long as i remember which tire goes where. Hmm.

So you use the same rims and just swap tires on the rims?

 

In the long run it's cheaper and easier with full wheels. And you can use one of them from the other set as a full size spare.

[Pilot1226]

Right, you have the option to use 4 wheels with 8 tires. Essentially it costs you $60 per season, so $120 per year.

 

At the cost of $120 or so per rim, you'd be looking at a break-even point of about 4 years, give or take. At some point you're going to have to replace either your all seasons or your winters, and that will cost $60 to remount regardless.

 

And with doing the $60 balancing every season, you're essentially getting a free tire rotation too. I know some people do it themselves, but if you pay the dealer or a mechanic to do it, that's a cost, too.

[cuemark8]

I have used winter tires and wheels as a seperate sets for many years with multiple vehicle and brands. If you are on a budget find used wheels. 10'S of thousands of used for factory refurbished wheels for sale at places like Ebay. Often a used set wheels can be cheaper than buying a set of plain Jane "steelies"

Also many used tire sensors can be found on Ebay and such or new "old" stock for sale. The sensors do all have a non-replaceable lithium battery and do have a suggested shelf life. Older sensort can be found for cheap.

Also many different wheels often work across different models of manufacturer. Similar vehicles often use similar wheels with, similar bolt patterns and offsets.

Shop around!

Last 4 vehicles I've owned I've purchased a seperate winter wheel set. All 4 of them I purchased the wheels used. If wheels are intended to be used as winter wheels and subjected to road salt and stone chips, then why biy new? Every day vehicles end up in salvage yards or someone tricks their ride and out and adds custom wheels and sells the OEM.