Wasted Potential Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Just installed an accessport and stage 1 on my '05 LGT 5EAT wagon with 122k miles and iffy compression 120,120,115,100 (100 was not on cylinder 4). Category: Range DAM: 0 to 1.000 Boost: -11.18 to 14.85 Fine knock learn: -6.65 to 2.23 Feedback knock: -12.00 to 0 A/F learning 1: 0 to 5.47% Fuel injector duty cycle: 0.50 to 59.69 Seeing the DAM, fine knock learn, and feedback knock is scaring me... no oil consumption, no knocking other than piston slap for 30 seconds when cold. No wide open throttle moment. Just an average drive with some hilly spots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Just installed an accessport and stage 1 on my '05 LGT 5EAT wagon with 122k miles and iffy compression 120,120,115,100 (100 was not on cylinder 4). Category: Range DAM: 0 to 1.000 Boost: -11.18 to 14.85 Fine knock learn: -6.65 to 2.23 Feedback knock: -12.00 to 0 A/F learning 1: 0 to 5.47% Fuel injector duty cycle: 0.50 to 59.69 Seeing the DAM, fine knock learn, and feedback knock is scaring me... no oil consumption, no knocking other than piston slap for 30 seconds when cold. No wide open throttle moment. Just an average drive with some hilly spots...Do accessports have the learning view option now? That is quite a bit of fine learning knock but we need to know at what load/rpm it occurs before something more can be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 The fine learning knock in the negative happened excessively not during higher throttle, but when decelerating from higher rpm, that max was around 4-4.5k. I will get a proper data log in the days to come. I cannot utilize the accesstuner yet, merely the manager. If you prefer I will get the rpm as one of the gauges and do whatever type of driving someone prefers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBwrench Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 WOW. Your legacy is not a fan of that tune, assuming motor is fine... Assuming motor is ok, and the tune is as well: If I were to take a guess, I'd say you've possibly got a burnt valve. You should monitor roughness across all 4 cylinders and see if there is anything strikingly different. All that being said, dynamic advance multiplier dropping to zero is really really bad. I've only ever had that happen once, and itr was when I melted a piston. Fine knock learning is bad as well... Pulling almost 7 degrees of timing, depending on where this is happening, is a sign of bad motor health as well.I wouldn't be as concerned with the feedback knock yet. The automatics can create some crazy knock situations during shifts and TC lockup. Honestly, seeing as the max IDC is so low(meaning it wasn't pushed hard), AF learning is alright, and all of the other vitals are so seriously bad, you really need to look into this. It could be something as simple as a vital sesnor going bad(MAF and front O2) or bad gas. But then again... it could also be the signs of engine issues. Plug your laptop into he AP, and use the COBB tuning software to take a snapshot of the knock learning table, and the AF learning A/B/C/D. That may help us help you a little more. MTBwrench's Stage 3 5EAT #racewagon 266awhp/255awtq @17.5psi, Tuned By Graham of Boosted Performance Everyone knows what I taste like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 I will log the ride back home and create the desired logs tonight. Any specific time frame for a log? Not sure how long the feature will log for or how much anyone wants to see. Any specific throttle spots or anything? I want to definitely get this sorted... in June I may be out of states for two months with the car so this needs to be taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBwrench Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 AP logs contain a LOT of data. IIRC the polling rate is something like 11Hz... so even a 20 second log can be fairly huge. I would keep the log less than a minute or so.Try and pinpoint where it's pulling the most timing etc. as that'll probably be the roughest point. MTBwrench's Stage 3 5EAT #racewagon 266awhp/255awtq @17.5psi, Tuned By Graham of Boosted Performance Everyone knows what I taste like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Is it wierd that it pulls the timing after a high torque demand, and not during? The log will contain more info other than just the gauges I have on the monitor? Does anyone have rebuilt B25 Heads for sale haha... I may build a short block quick while this is going bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahooNo2 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Do you have any other mods on the car? Are the numbers from right after the reflash if so the DAM would go from 0 and then to 1 after the car realizes it has good gas, warmed up etc. Boost seems normal since its going from vacuum to boost and back again. Injector duty cycle too... part throttle and then coasting makes sense for those numbers. Iirc ... the injector duty cycle on mine never went to 100, just 85 ish (this makes sense since the stock fuel system is not maxed out ) Also what are your knock counts? When you say timing is being pulled what numbers are you looking at? The gauge name and the numbers you are actually seeing? Ranges are misleading if you dont know the time duration and conditions. Final timing goes up and down based on many different variables (when you see all the tables in the access tuner software its amazing that the car actually starts and runs ) variables like... engine rpm engine load (based off of a formula of throttle position and maf readings of grams of air per second... which is based on intake air temp and air flow) dynamic advance multiplier aka dam the adjustment where you can manually pull timing in the ap knock learning etc.. Do you feel like the car gets slower or is bucking when you are driving or does it seem better than before when you are driving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 These data ranges are the FIRST drive after the stage 1 install. Vehicle has a resonator delete, and nameless 5" muffler exhaust. Stock air box with K&N panel filter (I will toss it and buy regular paper element after it gets dirty). No other mods I can think of. The test connectors where real close to top of the carpet like it has been messed with before? I believe fine knock learn is actual degrees of timing, so that is what I am looking at in that end. I have yet to drive back home, but there will be a data log tonight. The vehicle "feels" faster, but I did not get on it at all, just some heavy lugging up hill with a fully loaded vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 Attempt at uploading the excel data log spreadsheet to this post. Three logs, about 20-30 seconds each. One slight accel on flat land, one moderate accel on flat land, another maintain accel on hill. The knock sum increased very rapidly at low boost under moderate throttle position. After getting into boost and maintaining throttle position the knock sum did not increase. DA and DAM according to Cobb. https://www.cobbtuning.com/support/dynamic-advance-dynamic-advance-multiplier-explained-v1-00/ My engine is not happy. No bueno senior.Slight Accel - Flat Land.csvModerate Accel - Flat Land.csvMaintain Accel - Uphill.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 Now that I think of this... the fuel is a mix of 87 and 91. About 50/50. The tune is for 91. Would this alone cause this much internal pooping of the motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 87 will quite likely piss off a tune for 91... I've had issues with 91 on a 93 tune. Maybe some octane boost and good gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesterner Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Now that I think of this... the fuel is a mix of 87 and 91. About 50/50. The tune is for 91. Would this alone cause this much internal pooping of the motor? Also maybe try loading the aCN91 map. When I was using the accessport my car had a fair amount more knock feedback and a bit more learn on the 91 tune. ACN91 was pretty happy. And this is on Canadian 94 non ethanol btw, so not exactly a good comparison but...it might be worth a stab. And yes even after a very thorough tune I get a bit of feedback (not Learn) at low rpm with my 5eat, usually light load getting on it.. Never much more than -1.4 though. I have a low mileage quite quiet engine, but some metallic buzzing around 2500 from the heat shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 Seems like I should go back to the factory tune and see if these variables minimums and maximum ranges are still this extreme? I worry the ACN will not be conservative enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahooNo2 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Ya, try seeing what your base is with stock mode with 91 or higher with the 91 map. And don't reset the computer after each pull. It looks like your car is doing ok with the tune because your DAM stays gets to 1 from 0, when you reset it with a flash or the reset it needs to relearn params. Try not to use anything lower than 91 in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 The K&N filter is fine. just make sure its clean and don't over oil it. I think you cleaned the MAF sensor recently ? I guess you have also learned not to run 87 octane. 91 octane is fine on the stock map, your car should run fine with the stock map and the K&N and exhaust. When I have to run 91, cars tuned for 93, I try and only put in enough fuel to get me back to a state where I can fill it with 93. I believe in your other thread, we kind of decided you have issue with #4 ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 The low compression is on the driver side front, cylinder 2 at 100. Driver side rear, cylinder 4 at 115. Passenger sides front and rear, cylinder 1 and 3 at 120. By default loading another map resets the ECU correct? DAM cannot be anything other than 0 to 1. Seeing it often at 0.25 and 0.375 worries me, it's not like it blips down there for a few seconds, it sometimes will stay there for half a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 Plug your laptop into he AP, and use the COBB tuning software to take a snapshot of the knock learning table, and the AF learning A/B/C/D. That may help us help you a little more. Are these knock learning tables and specific AF learning tables something different than what I posted? I will have to re look through the software to find how to log these in particular or to get them open. I only have the accessmanager and not the accesstuner as of yet, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 The low compression is on the driver side front, cylinder 2 at 100. Driver side rear, cylinder 4 at 115. Passenger sides front and rear, cylinder 1 and 3 at 120. By default loading another map resets the ECU correct? DAM cannot be anything other than 0 to 1. Seeing it often at 0.25 and 0.375 worries me, it's not like it blips down there for a few seconds, it sometimes will stay there for half a minute. Yes, loading a new new MAP should reset the ECU, as it is a new MAP and the ECU will have a little relearning to do. After a reset, I start the car and drive it for a few miles, I don't like to let it sit at idle. Thinking about it, may be it doesn't reset the ECU. When you reset the ECU your supposed to turn the key to On for 10 seconds, then start the car. With a re-flash, you don't have to do that. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relative4 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 A reflash resets the ECU. A realtime map does not, so you should always reset the ECU just prior to loading a realtime map. You should never run a map with another map's learned values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 Found a gas station with 93 (99% only have 91 local to me), so after I get below a quarter tank or so I will fill up on 93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 You should add your location to the info so we have an idea where you live. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 Will do as soon as I get to a computer. Here is a snapshot of the AP from a recent regular hilly drive... AF Learning 1: -0.78 to 7.03% Fine Knock Learn: -5.88 to 0.83 AF Learning 1 A: 4.6 to 6.9% AF Learning 1 B: -0.40 to -0.20% AF Learning 1 C: 4.10 to 6.30% AF Learning 1 D: 4.30 to 5.30% DAM: 0.000 to 0.875 Damn that DAM... Will post the log for this tonight. Log 1 (maintain), and log 2 (accel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 Log 1: Maintain speed - Relatively Flat Land Log 2: Slight Acceleration - Flat Land Log 3: WOT - Flat Land Notice within Log 3, the DAM is zero the entire time... The roughness per cylinder was all experiencing a value of 0, then 1, then 0 (other than cylinder three, that one experienced a cylinder roughness of 1 randomly at some other time), quicker than I can notice. I am very confused by this as the vehicle experiences no severe problems, no hesitation (that is noticeable other than perhaps what one would presume is the fuel pressure regulation at low rpm high load request. It seems the boost is being forced to Watergate, pressure 8-9 +/-1 PSi. Must be something going on.Maintain Speed - Relative Land.csvSlight Accel 2 - Flat Land.csvWOT - Flat Land.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I'm beginning to think you have a boost/vacuum leak somewhere. You're getting way too much feedback knock under load and your a/f learning is rather high as well. Don't push your car until you figure this out. Check your fpr reference line that connects to the Intake Manifold abover cylinder 4. This is famous for popping off under boost causing lots of issues. Check the turbo to intercooler and intercooler to throttle body connections. Check the blue tee under the intercooler. This connects your bpv reference line to your intake. Lastly, change to the CA91 tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.