The Official F1 Thread - V2

[GTEASER]

NOT stupid at all. He left the track limits to gain an advantage and pass for a podium position. Its not like he ran wide while circulating all by himself. The rules explicitly say that all 4 wheels shall stay inside the inner white stripes around the course.

 

His infraction was akin to cutting a corner by running through someone's front yard in a running race where the street is the race course.

 

So STFU you old idiot. The stewards did their job for once and did it properly.

Edited October 23, 2017 by GTEASER

[KartRacerBoy]

NOT stupid at all. He left the track limits to gain an advantage and pass for a podium position. Its not like he ran wide while circulating all by himself. The rules explicitly say that all 4 wheels shall stay inside the inner white stripes around the course.

 

His infraction was akin to cutting a corner by running through someone's front yard in a running race where the street is the race course.

 

So STFU you old idiot. The marshalls did their job for once and did it properly.

 

 

So Nicky Lauda is an idiot. The Mercedes man called it the worst steward call he's ever seen.

 

So you STFU. Old melted face is on my side.

[GTEASER]

Just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean you're right. [emoji39]

[KartRacerBoy]

Just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean you're right. [emoji39]

 

Silly man. Even Kimi has said Verstappen's did nothing to warrant a penalty. Instead, he was pissed at himself for letting him pass.

[GTEASER]

So Kimi is supposed to leave the racing circuit to defend against another driver leaving the circuit? Right. That notion in itself has staggering safety repercussions.

[KartRacerBoy]

Oh dear. I'm staggered. Staggered I tell you.

 

Next you'll want covered wheels and cockpits for safety.

 

Seriously, the victim of the pass had no problems with it. I think that says it all.

 

As for "track limits" let's go back to the old curbs that stood three plus inches high and get rid of the stewards. I'm sick of 90 percent of passes "being under investigation." Racing isn't ballet.

 

And the fact that Verstappen's was penalized and Vettel wasn't for his "Schumacher kill the enemy move" at the previous race is outrageous. The steward system is broken and does more harm to the sport than good.

[ehsnils]

real curbs that are rough and bumpy and high enough from off-track site to prevent cars coming back on the track if they have gone off unless they do a loopback to before the curve and losing like 10 places.

http://www.bedug.com/pics/smiley/Devil2.gif

[bosco]

Verstappen's penalty for passing Raikkonen was a complete joke. The stewards are idiots.

 

They should device contractual financial penalties for stewards that make stupid calls or just ban passing in a race altogether.

 

 

Passing or lack of passing is one of the things that I think hurts F1. Nothing more boring than watching a conga line of million $ race cars.

 

Then when someone actually does pass and in dramatic fashion they get penalized go figure.

 

Plus if you are going to enforce lame rules then do it across the board.

 

If F1 wants to break though and capture the untapped American market then they need to figure out how have the worlds most advanced race cars do something as simple as being able to pass.

 

It's like soccer on wheels, hours of viewing for one goal.

 

 

 

"Verstappen broke the rules and so he was, rightly, punished. Vettel also broke the white line rule, but it was at the start and wasn’t punished, presumably because drivers get a bit of leeway in the mad dash through the opening corners – but he certainly gained an advantage, grabbing first position.

 

And, lap after lap, in the race and in qualifying, drivers up and down the grid kept running wide, over the white lines, without so much as a wag of the finger from the stewards.

 

Listen, if running wide over the white lines isn’t illegal, then write the rule book accordingly. That’s the whole point of rules, see? To enforce consistent limits to what is acceptable, to establish what counts as cheating, you know, THE RULES."

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/us-grand-prix-max-crashes-fia-website-vettel-fails-crash-hamiltons-f1-party-005414461.html

[GTEASER]

Even Kimi has said Verstappen's did nothing to warrant a penalty. Instead, he was pissed at himself for letting him pass.

 

Seriously, the victim of the pass had no problems with it. I think that says it all.

 

 

Once again you keep quoting people with no actual reference to the quote. And you gush with it, over and over.

 

This tells a different story of Raikonnen's take on it.

 

http://www.planetf1.com/news/raikkonen-we-all-know-where-the-track-limits-are/

[KartRacerBoy]

I hope that makes you feel better. Don't believe me about what Kimi said after the race? This is me not caring.

[LatentWagen]

And you gush with it, over and over.

 

KRB is definitely a gusher!

 

I think it's silly for the stewards to apply the rules to some people, sometimes.

 

Four off is four off. Quali laps were full of violations. Why should the race be any different? If you're going to enforce the rule at the end of the race in an arbitrary fashion, then it's not much of a rule. Gotta be consistent!

 

We all know it's politics, and Ferrari always gets the benefit of these calls...

[LatentWagen]

Daniil Kvyat 'will not return again' confirms Red Bull's Helmut Marko:

 

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/amp/16199

[GTEASER]

Bye Danii. Don't let the door slam on your ass on the way out.

[baconbits]

My take on it is four off is four off. If everyone had four off in the same spot in qualifying, no one gained an advantage. Max gained an advantage by going four off on the inside - he was almost in the grass FFS - where no one else had gone four off for the entire race. Everyone went wide in turn one like Vettel did at the start, passing and not, such as the Bottas and Ricciardo fight for several laps. Passes were always made after turn one so no advantage gained there so no need to reprimand for it.

 

Ferrari doesn't get the benefit of steward calls all the time - was it Mexico last year where someone totally cut a chicane and was allowed to keep their gained place? Max and Vettel or was it Max and Kimi again?

 

Never was a huge fan of Kvyat so that doesn't bother me at all.

[LatentWagen]

My take on it is four off is four off. If everyone had four off in the same spot in qualifying, no one gained an advantage. Max gained an advantage by going four off on the inside - he was almost in the grass FFS - where no one else had gone four off for the entire race. Everyone went wide in turn one like Vettel did at the start, passing and not, such as the Bottas and Ricciardo fight for several laps. Passes were always made after turn one so no advantage gained there so no need to reprimand for it. Yup!

 

Ferrari doesn't get the benefit of steward calls all the time - was it Mexico last year where someone totally cut a chicane and was allowed to keep their gained place? Max and Vettel or was it Max and Kimi again? True, but seems like the vast majority of the time, Ferrari gets the benefit of friends in high places. Whether steward's decisions, tire testing, or other little perks.

 

Never was a huge fan of Kvyat so that doesn't bother me at all. Word, good riddance.

[ehsnils]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo8nFaCese8]Track Limits: Analysing FIA Inconsistencies - YouTube[/ame]

[baconbits]

It only matters when an advantage is gained by doing it. Vettel going off at the start didn't matter because everyone on every single lap after that also did it so him doing it lap one, turn one is no different. If anything, penalize Bottas too because he went four off and then passed Ricciardo a couple laps later.

 

End of the day, Verstappen races a little dirty. I like him, he's got immense talent, but none of the old timer drivers needed to be told to stop weaving under breaking, only one defensive move per corner/straight, etc.

 

Also, don't forget this one.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6nf2UzCAAo]F1 2016 Gp Mexico Battle Vettel vs Verstappen vs Ricciardo - YouTube[/ame]

[ehsnils]

The best way to solve it is to make sure that the track is designed so that if they go out on the outside they won't have an advantage from it.

[KartRacerBoy]

gravel traps. No asphalt runoff.

 

It would be nice to see drivers suffer for their mistakes.

[GTEASER]

While I agree with the benefit of gravel traps from an instant punishment perspective for exceeding track limits, gravel does pose a significant safety concern at high speeds. This is why we only see gravel these days well beyond the paved runoff areas, to only be used in the last resort case to get a completely out of control car slowed down before the barriers.

 

I think the FIA, if they are not going to treat the track limit rules with absoluteness in all instances (and there are more than enough video cameras pointing at all corners of the track to ensure there is a record), as the video above pointed out, by making it so that the drivers must treat the white line like its the Armcos of Monaco, then they at least have to define "gaining an advantage".

 

For example...

 

Is exceeding the limits during qualifying a "racing" advantage? I would say no, it's certainly a time advantage, but you're not "racing" anyone. As such, going wide on corners, the outside of the track, is the only place that this should be allowed, ever, and only in a timing situation, or while running alone, and not on the inside of the track or while passing for position. Again, only a time advantage, not a position advantage.

 

Is exceeding the limits following a late braking maneuver for the purpose of completing your turn after a pass, and going wide on the "outside" of a corner, a "racing" advantage? I would say no, because it's likely that you're not taking the most efficient line, and instead taking a longer line, and will lose time. The driver you just passed has likely got the better line out of the corner to continue to get the power down and fight.

 

Is exceeding the track limits by cutting the "inside" of a corner a "racing" advantage? I would say yes, whether its for position or not, because it shortens the track for the driver cutting the corner.

Edited October 27, 2017 by GTEASER

[KartRacerBoy]

I know the safety arguments against high curbs and gravel. But clearly the stewards are woefully inconsistent just as in Indycar. Despite Charlie Whiting's protests. Maybe solution is some kind of engine cutoff if you go off track. The current system stinks.

[FJuan]

On the final lap you don't think all the teams are watching what everyone does? If they see someone break the rules you know they will call it out. I'm sure Ferrari would have caught it and called it out if the stewarts didn't.

[ehsnils]

Just paint the areas outside the designated track with something with a bit lower friction.

[tytek]

Just paint the areas outside the designated track with something with a bit lower friction.

 

And accelerate cars careening out of control into a wall? Good idea, Nils...

[baconbits]

Rules only state that you can't exceed track limits to gain a lasting advantage. There's no need to penalize everyone every time they exceed the limits.