Volta55 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Would a leaky up-pipe lead to a high a/f learn #1? exhaust is starting to get a tad louder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidxsnake Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Would a leaky up-pipe lead to a high a/f learn #1? exhaust is starting to get a tad louder I would expect that would be more an issue if the header is leaky (instead of the up-pipe), but I suspect it's possible. Having an exhaust leak so close to the front O2 sensor probably isn't ideal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I would say, very unlikely. If you are 100% sure it's not a vacuum leak, then it's fueling related. Lack of fuel flow at idle would cause high A learning, but would be fine at other ranges, because they have more pressure. Lack of fuel can be fuel filter, dying fuel pump (though this one will lean out at wot first), bad fuel pressure regulator, clogged injectors. Basically anything that impedes fuel delivery. I would bunch in a bad MAF and bad O2 sensor with this too, since both lead to lack of fuel or bad adjustments of Air and fuel mixtures. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volta55 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I would say, very unlikely. If you are 100% sure it's not a vacuum leak, then it's fueling related. Lack of fuel flow at idle would cause high A learning, but would be fine at other ranges, because they have more pressure. Lack of fuel can be fuel filter, dying fuel pump (though this one will lean out at wot first), bad fuel pressure regulator, clogged injectors. Basically anything that impedes fuel delivery. I would bunch in a bad MAF and bad O2 sensor with this too, since both lead to lack of fuel or bad adjustments of Air and fuel mixtures. Yeah.. I smoked this thing almost a dozen times, used 2 cans of carb cleaner on the motor near intake manifold gaskets and all rubber hoses; bought that stainless steel T and installed that, still same readings. I am pretty certain this thing is vacuum tight. Would a bad MAF or o2 throw a CEL? Will see what I can log with BTSSM, and search these forums I will start at MAF voltage and injector duty cycle % Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 It would only throw a CEL if your AF 1 learning goes to 15% + AF 1 correction stays high for a bit (usually 2 days after ecu reset for me). Can you do a 2nd gear log for me to about 6k rpm? I know your engine is knocking a lot (and it's really unsafe for you to drive it even in medium boost), but I need you to get past the stock Closed Loop to Open Loop delay and need to see your engine loads (g/rev). It's ok if IAM is below 1, actually it's encouraged in this case. Make sure to log Engine Load (g/rev), AFR, engine RPM, MAF V, MAF g/s, you already are logging some of these, so you can add the missing ones. I don't need super high log rate resolution. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volta55 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 It would only throw a CEL if your AF 1 learning goes to 15% + AF 1 correction stays high for a bit (usually 2 days after ecu reset for me). Can you do a 2nd gear log for me to about 6k rpm? I know your engine is knocking a lot (and it's really unsafe for you to drive it even in medium boost), but I need you to get past the stock Closed Loop to Open Loop delay and need to see your engine loads (g/rev). It's ok if IAM is below 1, actually it's encouraged in this case. Make sure to log Engine Load (g/rev), AFR, engine RPM, MAF V, MAF g/s, you already are logging some of these, so you can add the missing ones. I don't need super high log rate resolution. I really appreciate it, bud... will do shes holding at 0.875 so its kinda okay haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I really appreciate it, bud... will do shes holding at 0.875 so its kinda okay haha Keep in mind that, even though your engine is at 0.875 right now, it's still very unhealthy, I rarely see -10 FBKC on a pull, that's very very bad That's why I'm asking for only one log and only in 2nd gear, knock becomes much deadlier above 2nd gear because engine revs slower and spends a lot more time in "danger knock zones". You said your running a stock tune? 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volta55 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 correct... stock tune 2nd gear pull to 6k https://datazap.me/u/volta55/2nd-gear-pull-6k?log=0&data=1-14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidxsnake Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 correct... stock tune 2nd gear pull to 6k https://datazap.me/u/volta55/2nd-gear-pull-6k?log=0&data=1-14 Wow, that is a very long CL-OL delay, along with some very lean AFRs in the middle of the pull (though that was a partial throttle pull, not WOT). Perhaps you have a bad MAF sensor or O2 sensor? They don't necessarily cause the ECU to throw a code when they malfunction. One more potentially stupid question: the airbox is correctly hooked up and assembled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 First your turbo is real slow to spool, by 4k RPM your only building 6psi of boost, that should be 9-11psi. Now this could be because you didn't floor it it, but gave it partial throttle. Unless you did and your throttle doesn't open all the way? Also I didn't expect for you too loose THAT much resolution, but I guess I'm used to working on laptops with more processing power . You should always log Load (g/rev) though, along with RPM, AFR, Boost, Total Timing (not to be confused with base timing), and TPS. Without those 6 interpreting the logs is almost impossible. Then the nice to haves are FKC (feedback knock control), FLKC (fine learning knock control), IAM, IAT, MAF V. Anyway, even at partial throttle you are hitting 2.0g/rev, which is good that means your MAF is reading things more or less accurately and probably is not the culprit. But you are pretty lean up to 5800 RPM, this is probably due to partial throttle and Closed loop to Open loop delay. What fuel are you using? What octane and what gas station? 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Next I hear a loud hissing from BOV area. You sprayed carb cleaner there and didn't see AF1 change? If not then go ahead and unplug it from BOV, and stick a bolt into it (to cap it off). If hissing stops, your BOV is busted (either diaphragm or nipple). I don't believe I've seen you address this one? Did you fix the hissing noise? Also going back to your very first datazap log, your also not pressing the throttle to 100%, is there a reason for that? 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volta55 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Wow, that is a very long CL-OL delay, along with some very lean AFRs in the middle of the pull (though that was a partial throttle pull, not WOT). Perhaps you have a bad MAF sensor or O2 sensor? They don't necessarily cause the ECU to throw a code when they malfunction. One more potentially stupid question: the airbox is correctly hooked up and assembled? As of right now, no question is stupid OEM panel ( fitted and oriented correctly inside the airbox ) ,new silencer, and new turbo inlet. First your turbo is real slow to spool, by 4k RPM your only building 6psi of boost, that should be 9-11psi. Now this could be because you didn't floor it it, but gave it partial throttle. Unless you did and your throttle doesn't open all the way? I did this pull in semi- manual ( +/- )... next time should i do Sport Mode Auto? or just normal Drive Auto? Partial throttle is because im a p*ssy and dont want to damage anything haha.... next log will be "flat out" (100% throttle plate) Also I didn't expect for you too loose THAT much resolution, but I guess I'm used to working on laptops with more processing power . You should always log Load (g/rev) though, along with RPM, AFR, Boost, Total Timing (not to be confused with base timing), and TPS. Without those 6 interpreting the logs is almost impossible. Then the nice to haves are FKC (feedback knock control), FLKC (fine learning knock control), IAM, IAT, MAF V. Anyway, even at partial throttle you are hitting 2.0g/rev, which is good that means your MAF is reading things more or less accurately and probably is not the culprit. But you are pretty lean up to 5800 RPM, this is probably due to partial throttle and Closed loop to Open loop delay. What fuel are you using? What octane and what gas station? 91 octane from some Gulf near my work I don't believe I've seen you address this one? Did you fix the hissing noise? yes i did, it was the fuel pressure hose that literally was just disconnected Also going back to your very first datazap log, your also not pressing the throttle to 100%, is there a reason for that? I dont think I have ever gave her 100% throttle plate cause possible damage. This was only a 5 second log... lots of traffic so i tried to get some space in between the person in front of me on the on ramp. I think I scared them in their rear-view mirror hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 91 octane from some Gulf near my work Do you have 93 in your area? Is switching to one of the top tier gasolines like Shell out of question for you? I dont think I have ever gave her 100% throttle plate cause possible damage. This was only a 5 second log... lots of traffic so i tried to get some space in between the person in front of me on the on ramp. I think I scared them in their rear-view mirror hah. Actually from engine damage perspective and turbos, it doesn't matter if it's 30% or 100%, if your in boost and timing and AFR's are not right, engine will knock and that will still kill it. Reason for needing a 100% throttle log is, to see if your engine load and maf voltage maxes out at too low of a grams/rev, less throttle might artificially reduce the engine load. If it does, that's usually the sign of MAF sensor reading less airflow then there really is, which translates to less engine load, which then translates to lean mixture and more timing then it's safe. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volta55 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 100% on ramp onto bridge https://datazap.me/u/volta55/sikorsky?log=0&data=1-14-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 100% on ramp onto bridge https://datazap.me/u/volta55/sikorsky?log=0&data=1-14-15 That's better, but you did full throttle it pretty late (at 5,300rpm), I do my pulls from 2,000 rpm usually. Also looks like the car shifted into 3rd, there should be a way to keep it in 2nd only (sorry never owned an auto). But that's ok, you don't need to do any more wot logs, since I think your problem is mechanical. Since you didn't floor it from early enough RPM, I can't tell if your turbo is lagging majorly (could be a sign of a failing turbo, or a major boost leak). You hit ~2.30g/rev of load, which is about right for stock boost level, thus your MAF is not reading low and is fine. AFR's are lean at first, but seem right for stock tune. O2 sensor seems to be reading fine enough. We are now down to, why on earth are you knocking so much, either your gas is really bad or your getting a ton of false knock from loose heatshields, something hitting the knock sensor, etc. I would error on side of bad gas, because I've had loose heatshields and acorns ontop of my knock sensor, and it would only show false knock at low loads, not at full throttle pulls. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volta55 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Ok.. Couple things I could: Look under the hood and see if anything is loose. does it have to be physically "tapping" on the head of the knock sensor, or is it just purely acoustic? Burn off this fuel and get octane 93 from a popular gas station? How long does the ECU re-learn the different octane properties? Find an open place, and do a proper pull. ( in 2nd, starting at 2K RPM, 100% throttle plate, to 6K RPM, into 3rd, end logging ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Ok.. Couple things I could: Look under the hood and see if anything is loose. does it have to be physically "tapping" on the head of the knock sensor, or is it just purely acoustic? Yup, you can spend a lifetime looking for that though Burn off this fuel and get octane 93 from a popular gas station? How long does the ECU re-learn the different octane properties? Get 93 gas from a popular Shell if you can. If you don't have a heavily used Shell, try a medium used Shell, if you don't have that then consider another Top Tier gas station. As you can see Shell is my go to, I've been using it with my self tuned cars for years. Find an open place, and do a proper pull. ( in 2nd, starting at 2K RPM, 100% throttle plate, to 6K RPM, into 3rd, end logging ) I would hold off on this, your car is knocking way too much, to the point that I think it's a gas issue vs something mechanical. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volta55 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Thanks again Covert.. Ill burn this gas off and get Shell 93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volta55 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 With 93 Shell https://datazap.me/u/volta55/93-octane?log=0&data=5-6-14-15 On the topic of knocking, it looks better? Less degrees pulled with knock correction degrees? If so, easy solution... feed her the good stuff? Now time to see about my A/F.... I def have a small exhaust leak and walking around the car it sounds louder underneath the driverside door hinge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Looks better, but still not out of the water. Your still knocking way too much especially with IAM pulled. Next time you drive, can you log both of AVCS gauges? You can remove "Closed Loop" gauge, kind of pointless for WOT pulls 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volta55 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Looks better, but still not out of the water. Your still knocking way too much especially with IAM pulled. Next time you drive, can you log both of AVCS gauges? You can remove "Closed Loop" gauge, kind of pointless for WOT pulls I am assuming you are talking about my VVT left and right. They are in unison going up to 20 degrees in neighborhood Town driving. I will log later Sent from my SM-J700P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidxsnake Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 I am assuming you are talking about my VVT left and right. They are in unison going up to 20 degrees in neighborhood Town driving. I will log later Sent from my SM-J700P using Tapatalk You assume correct. If they're always in unison (+/- a couple degrees), then everything is likely working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Yup that looks good, just wanted to make sure your OCV's weren't shot and were over advancing (increasing overlap and dynamic compression). 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Is going up to 20 “normal”? I don’t think I’ve seen mine over 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Is going up to 20 “normal”? I don’t think I’ve seen mine over 12. Stock tune calls fro 20* of AVCS at 1.20g/rev and 700-1600rpm. With 15* around those ranges. It's hard to hit but doable. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.