SDSK Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Hello all! I have recently become the proud owner of a 2000 legacy gt wagon 5 speed that has beautiful interior. The only thing is the exterior paint is great but the fenders and slightly bent and the rear bumper hangs from broken tabs under it. The taillight center piece has a small hole/crack as well. The suspention is super soft and rides great but I would like to find an OEM replacement for them to give a slightly stiffer ride with better handeling. The breaks just dont seem to be up to par either. One last thing is the previous owner claims that the motor is a JDM NA motor with 61k miles on it but this is hard to believe as it is slow.... LIKE SUPER DUPER SLOW. So I was wondering if anyone know what would be a good replacement (preferred turbo setup). Any help with what my options are or simply where to look would be awesome! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRuu Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 i have my bumper off right now and am doing the same thing go here to get part numbers for the broken bits http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b12/type_1/body_equipment_exterior/rear_bumper/ its probably the EJ20 of some version is it DOHC or SOHC? http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/482/286/318/318286482_334.jpg ^^^^ in that link in the front of the motor by where the oil pressure switch would be it says EJ25, all ej blocks have that stamp, what does yours say ej22, ej20,ej25? it will be under your alternator and a little hard to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara32013 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 The JDM EJ20 N/A has less power than the USDM EJ25 N/A. Just because it's JDM doesn't mean it's fast. The USDM 3rd Gens were never fast, we all have the same SOHC ej25 making 165 hp. If you want turbo you'll have find a turbo engine. You can't slap a turbo in these stock engines. You can get a JDM 2.0 twin turbo with transmission fairly reasonable with low miles. I'm not sure what has to be done to accomplish the install but I do know you have to swap the turbos around Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDSK Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 RustyRuu EJ20 is what the block is stamped with so i guess its no wonder the lack of power but at least i know the previous owner was not a lier. also how do I tell if it is a DOHC or SOHC? I am a former Toyota guy. Just sold my last ae86 and 79 pickup so I'm no noob by any means but the Boxer engine is alien to me for the most part. Sara32013 yeah I was not planning to turbo the current engine rather looking for a complete replacement like one from a wrx or something similar. I'm just not sure about the interchangables with these cars since my backgrouns is mostly toyota and honda from way back in the day. one last thing, is there a wrx chassie that i can swap over better suspension parts from? for example a lot of guys use the ae86 suspension on older toyotas because its better and a direct bolt on. just wondering if i have this option from say a outback or impreza wrx or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 The JDM EJ20 N/A has less power than the USDM EJ25 N/A. Just because it's JDM doesn't mean it's fast. The USDM 3rd Gens were never fast, we all have the same SOHC ej25 making 165 hp. . My bets are it is an EJ203 from a JDM Forester or Legacy. They're only good for about 135 HP. I test drove an 01 Forester with a EJ203 swap and it was super lethargic, which as Sara pointed out JDM =/= Fast. The benefits of this motor is a super reliable motor that will pretty much outlive your car. If you want turbo you'll have find a turbo engine. You can't slap a turbo in these stock engines So now here comes the controversial bits. I'm going to be THAT guy. Contrary to popular belief, all NA motors CAN be turbocharged. WRX parts are direct bolt-ons and one could turbo their car for about $500-800 using common take off parts to people upgrading their WRX. The caveat though is the amount of boost. Certain sources cite different numbers. A "play it safe" range is around 6-9 PSI until the ECU starts to reject more air (boost) and suffer fuel starvation. With a piggyback ECU, you can run up to 10-12 PSI before the motor's integrity comes into question. It's not necessarily the cylinder walls that start to flex under boost, it's the cast components of the rotating assembly that start to degrade. I've seen a bone stock NA block handle 15 PSI before it broke a rod. My buddy has a EJ251 in a 01 Impreza Wagon that he's running ~9 PSI with upgraded injectors and fuel pump, no tune, no piggyback or standalone ECU, no forged internals and dynoed just shy of 200 HP before the turbo died from the seals giving up (he was warned to rebuild the turbo with new seals). It's possible and a great option for those who want a little bit of stable giddyup and go, but don't expect near WRX or STI power outputs on an engine that was NA to begin with. Not to mention the EJ202/EJ203 has some of the worst flowing heads out there, they were built for economy and not much else. You can get a JDM 2.0 twin turbo with transmission fairly reasonable with low miles. I'm not sure what has to be done to accomplish the install but I do know you have to swap the turbos around The EJ20R, EJ206, and EJ208 should not be used in USDM cars period for four reasons: 1.) The twin turbos will not clear the steering wheel shaft and brake booster on USDM cars 2.) You need to either convert your car to RHD (in which case you need to have a donor or find a RHD USDM Postal Wagon) 3.) Even if you could swap it into a RHD car or figure out how to modify your LHD vehicle to adapt the swap, the Subaru twin turbo design was mediocre at best. These engines were not a symbol of performance with a max yield of 276 HP, and most reputable tuners have a helluva time trying to tune them. With tuned twin turbos in other cars, they're pushing 500+ HP by comparison which leads to 4.) for the same price, or cheaper, you can pick up a EJ20X or EJ20Y. The EJ20X had some of the thickest walls outside of the EG33, was a turbo motor from the factory with an output of 265-280 HP, and have some of the best flowing heads of any Subaru engine. Being as you have a 3rd Gen, any factory turbo motor you install in this generation is going to need either a factory ecu and harness that matches the turbo motor and merge it with your ECU, or a piggyback/standalone unit that can be tuned for the new engine. The Legacy ECU cannot be flashed, chipped, or otherwise modified until you get to the 4th gen models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDSK Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 Thank you Setnev for the info it came in very handy. I do have one question about the motor swap option for a wrx engine. why would I have to merge the turbo ECU with the current ECU? Also do you know of any suspension swaps I can benefit from other then aftermarket? Or maybe someting I can swap in that has a better market for aftermarket parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 From my recollection, the turbo ECU is a 4 or 5 connector setup, whereas the NA ECU is only 3 connectors. I'll have to check my diagrams, but if you wanted to retain your stock ECU and install a turbo engine, you'd need the engine harness for the turbo motor and need to wire in a piggyback ECU so that it intercepts the ECU signals and acts as a translator between the turbo motor and stock ECU. I am not too familiar with suspension setups on the third gen. I'm more of a second gen guy myself, though I do own an 01 'LL Bean H6, and I'm learning what I can about that as I tear it apart to swap the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayspecs Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 3rd and 4th gen legacy sedans/wagons (NOT OUTBACK) share the same suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDSK Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 xrayspecs thank you. Is there a benifit to using the 4th gen suspention like stronger sway bars and such? Setnev Thanks that makes sence for the most part. The 3 to 4 pin thing is confusing but then again im not used to dealing with motor swaps or turbos to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRuu Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 a baja RSB is the thickest stock sway, unless you look for a 19mm jdm RSB those may still be floating around. some people have put tribeca front sway bars on the front too, and are larger than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayspecs Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 biggest is just the offerings from most of the aftermarket suppliers, if you look at 3rd gen you get zero but if you look at 4th you can pull stuff up, but just confirm as with anything what your getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDSK Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 xrayspecs Awesome. thanks again. I have been looking for aftermarket parts but like you said there seems to not be much. I will start looking at 4th gen stuffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Setnev Thanks that makes sence for the most part. The 3 to 4 pin thing is confusing but then again im not used to dealing with motor swaps or turbos to begin with. This is what a turbo ECU harness looks like when you look at the connectors you disconnect: http://i.imgur.com/mNqr9ZT.png This is what your ECU looks like: http://i.imgur.com/MFimCNp.png The connectors are physically different so your harness will not plug into a turbo ECU, nor will your harness work with a turbo engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRuu Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 3rd and 4th gen legacy sedans/wagons (NOT OUTBACK) share the same suspension. there are subtle differences, like when you go to upgrade your front control arm bushings for something poly or better definitely look for third gen stuff because 4th gens changed there design to be more like the Impreza. prothane makes a decent poly bushing kit( only people that do so) and we can't use a couple of those pieces because of that issue with the front control arm rear bushing, but other than that piece its pretty much identical. whiteline makes good stuff too, you have to order piece by piece and takes a couple emails here and there to make sure your getting the right stuff but they have huge aftermarket support for us as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayspecs Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 there are subtle differences, like when you go to upgrade your front control arm bushings for something poly or better definitely look for third gen stuff because 4th gens changed there design to be more like the Impreza. prothane makes a decent poly bushing kit( only people that do so) and we can't use a couple of those pieces because of that issue with the front control arm rear bushing, but other than that piece its pretty much identical. whiteline makes good stuff too, you have to order piece by piece and takes a couple emails here and there to make sure your getting the right stuff but they have huge aftermarket support for us as well Correct, also sometime mid year 02 there was a change on the inner bushing (the one that has to be pressed out/in) where they went from 55mm to 65mm IIRC, when i updated my front end to whiteline i just put the car on jack stands and crawled under it with a tape measure to confirm the correct part. like I stated, confirm what your ordering is what you think your buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XJCasper Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 WHOA!!!! Just to verify I read that correctly.... Does this statement pertain to my USDM 2000 2.5 engine? So now here comes the controversial bits. I'm going to be THAT guy. Contrary to popular belief, all NA motors CAN be turbocharged. WRX parts are direct bolt-ons and one could turbo their car for about $500-800 using common take off parts to people upgrading their WRX. The caveat though is the amount of boost. Certain sources cite different numbers. A "play it safe" range is around 6-9 PSI until the ECU starts to reject more air (boost) and suffer fuel starvation. With a piggyback ECU, you can run up to 10-12 PSI before the motor's integrity comes into question. It's not necessarily the cylinder walls that start to flex under boost, it's the cast components of the rotating assembly that start to degrade. I've seen a bone stock NA block handle 15 PSI before it broke a rod. Thank you Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleRumble Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 If it broke a rod it didn't handle 15lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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