Quite a Predicament - 06 GT Wagon 135K miles

[Dwizzle]

Hi All -

 

In life, you win some, you lose some.

 

I just completed the VW buyback of my 2010 Jetta TDI where I made out like a bandit. Since I work remotely I wanted to take my time finding the next new car but my wife said it was impractical to have one car when she has to shuffle the kids around. I wanted to get a $4K Ranger as a temp car but she said that was impractical because what if I needed to take one of the kids?

 

With the buyback date approaching I needed to make a decision quickly, and I have always loved the look of a Subaru Legacy wagon.

 

I founded a one owner 06 Legacy GT Auto with 135K miles that appeared to be good condition at a small used car dealer. One owner Carfax with one small fender bender. They serviced it at the dealer for the most part so everything was in the the carfax including with 6-8K OCI (I know now!), 40K power steering pump, 60K maintenance, 3 drive belt changes. It wasn't the perfect maintenance record but the car wasn't neglected.

 

Test drove sounded and felt find and the interior/exterior was spotless for as many miles as it had. OK, I checked the typical spots in a car for leaks and vibrations. No mechanic check before purchase, I thought it was good. $8K OTD cash.

 

So, today I found a Subie only indie repair shop because I wanted to change everything out (including timing belt, because that wasn't on the Carfax and was the only big risk I saw). Drove it there, head guy took a look at it and said - its a really clean car but thats a brand new turbo :-/. Ok, planned to bring it back in Monday for the service. I shit you not, I pulled a right on the main road and CEL and blink Cruise come on (omen), turn it around, they ran the code, and a vacuum hose came loose so put that back on and did a code reset.

 

In speaking with the head mechanic while I waited the 20 mins he informed me of my ill fate. He told me to leave it there and let him work tomorrow to see if the timing belt actually needed to be changed. He told me 80% of the engines he has seen don't last after turbo blows up. Why do a timing belt change when engine could go at anytime and you'll need a new timing belt then?

 

So here is the predicament -

1) Just drive it with min maintenance until the turbo or engine goes, deal with it then ...

2) go ahead and spend $4 - 5 K on a new engine ... drive it for as many miles as I can on the new engine in an old car

3) Go ahead and sell private party to some poor sucker now for $1 - 3K loss

 

(how can someone who took it to the dealer most of the life of the car not have that dealer log the turbo replacement in Carfax?)

 

What should I do? I love the look and drive of the car and would not mind keeping it for quite a while. But I did not budget a new engine and I'm pissed at myself for getting ripped off.

[MilesA]

Sorry to hear about what happened. It's a textbook case -- on the forums we must hear a similar story every week or two. Around here, if someone asks about some nice-looking car they want to buy, we tell them to run away screaming if it has a new turbo. Probably the reason it was not on Carfax was the seller did not want any potential buyer to be alerted.

 

Well, what's done is done, unless you have a warranty from the seller. Read the turbo failure FAQ in the stickies section. It describes everything you need to look for and what to do. Your mechanic is being honest about your odds, but prompt action might save the engine.

 

I honestly think you will find the car difficult to sell without a working engine. The repair-it-and-drive-it-till-the-wheels-fall-off plan is probably the least of the available evils. You could probably drive the car to 250K miles with good maintenance. But it will be expensive, no way around that, sorry to say.

[WahooNo2]

id say 1 and do the timing belt and related pullies if it need a new belt. Maybe the dealer changed the turbo because of shaft play etc. is the turbo a known brand or mystery ebay? I wouldnt replace the engine or short block until its failed, but you can budget for it. if you dont trust the oil pump you can replace it when you do the timing belt and replace front main seal, you can also check/change the oil pickup. You can also try communicating with the dealer if to see if they replaced the turbo/timing belt.

good luck.

[Dwizzle]

 

In the TDI it was the HPFP that grenaded in 2 - 5% of cars, causing $10K worth of damage to the entire fuel system. It happened to mine while under warranty. Then dieselgate happened and all us owners really lucked out.

 

Then I go and make this purchase in haste not doing my homework.

 

I'm starting to dive into the Turbo fail FAQ.

[sunny5280]

I didn't read anything which suggests the previous turbo failed and thus sent shrapnel throughout the engine. IMO unless you have some other symptoms I wouldn't read too much into a new turbo. Yes, we all know what can happen if the previous turbo grenaded but I didn't see anything to suggest it had. Perhaps you should check the oil / oil pan for metal particulates?

[Dwizzle]

I didn't read anything which suggests the previous turbo failed and thus sent shrapnel throughout the engine. IMO unless you have some other symptoms I wouldn't read too much into a new turbo. Yes, we all know what can happen if the previous turbo grenaded but I didn't see anything to suggest it had. Perhaps you should check the oil / oil pan for metal particulates?

 

The mechanic showed me where who ever replaced the turbo had dropped the oil pan. Did not include that part in my original story.

 

That is exactly what he said he was going to do tomorrow, check the oil for metal particles.

[MilesA]

The turbo failure FAQ explains all that as far as what to look for, even if the turbo didn't die a horrible death.

 

I guess it's good to be optimistic, but 6-8K oil change intervals, new turbo, car traded in soon after, it is a familiar pattern. What usually happens is the new turbo dies in its turn due to oil starvation because the mechanic who installed it did not understand and fix the root cause. Then, the engine destroys itself with all the metallic debris circulating in the oil. It ends with a new short block, rebuilt heads and another new turbo (#ynansb).

[Dwizzle]

The turbo failure FAQ explains all that as far as what to look for, even if the turbo didn't die a horrible death.

 

I guess it's good to be optimistic, but 6-8K oil change intervals, new turbo, car traded in soon after, it is a familiar pattern. What usually happens is the new turbo dies in its turn due to oil starvation because the mechanic who installed it did not understand and fix the root cause. Then, the engine destroys itself with all the metallic debris circulating in the oil. It ends with a new short block, rebuilt heads and another new turbo (#ynansb).

 

The tone of the GM when he said "thats a new turbo" is when I knew I'd done messed up. Then we we were walking back to the office he simply pointed to some blown up turbos they have on the shelf in the main area.

 

Thanks for your reply and for y'all having the same discussions I'm sure you've had may times before.

 

The one advantage I may have is that I won't drive it much at all working from home. I've been averaging 5K miles per year for the last few years.

[xt2005bonbon]

Did you already do an oil change? Oil of choice here is T6 rotella 5w40. Cheapest at walmart.

Get the btssm app if you want to monitor the ecu parameters.

Do check the stamp on the turbo. Somewhere it should say vf40 if they replaced with a stock unit.

Check the banjo bolt filters asap.

[Gex]

How did they tell they dropped the oil pan (which btw is the correct way to check for disaster after turbo failure)? I've done like 4 pans on these cars and there is no way unless blatantly obvious RTV massacre or tool marks that you could tell if the pan was changed. If the car runs fine then just drive it. Do a $25 oil analysis (Blackstone labs) and see how healthy the oil system really is.

[Dwizzle]

How did they tell they dropped the oil pan (which btw is the correct way to check for disaster after turbo failure)? I've done like 4 pans on these cars and there is no way unless blatantly obvious RTV massacre or tool marks that you could tell if the pan was changed. If the car runs fine then just drive it. Do a $25 oil analysis (Blackstone labs) and see how healthy the oil system really is.

 

When he put it on the lift to see whether it was leaking oil, he walked me under it and showed me the oil pan. There was some fresh sealant (pink) all along the edges of oil pan where it was bolted on the engine. It looked as though it was just applied.

 

The mechanic and shop has great reviews and had some crazy looking Subies in there and parked in the lot. When we were discuss the cost to put in the engine he pointed to a WRX and said that owner was putting a $30K engine in it. He also pointed to a standard Legacy sedan where he was currently replacing the engine ... said the car owner was in the same situation as me. Given that, his recommendation was still 1) in my options.

 

https://allprosubie.com/

[MilesA]

For sure, option 1) makes a lot of sense as long as you've checked the oil for metal debris or contamination and made sure the banjo bolt filter in the turbo oil supply line is clean or removed. Also, if it now has an aftermarket turbo, has the car been properly tuned to account for that?

 

You just have to be prepared for option 2) if it does happen.

 

Good luck. They are great cars, but these and a few other design weaknesses detract from that.

[sunny5280]

At this point there's insufficient information to conclude you've got a problem on yours hands. A new turbo and an oil pan which has been recently removed are inconclusive. While they're signs something could have happened that's about all you can say. Check the condition of the oil, run it for a few hundred / thousand miles, and check it again. It appears the shop you're using is knowledgeable so they should be able to provide a thorough examination.

 

With all that said MilesA summed it up nicely...barring any reason to the contrary do option one and plan for two.

[robburns201]

OK now im officially worried to shi$...I bought my 06 about 3 months ago and going threw the paperwork from P/O i saw 500 miles after he bought the car with 124,000 it says it was towed in to Dealership with a broken turbo shaft....Notes said they changed out filter along with turbo...Now at 150,000 and reading this thread I'm not gonna sleep for days...Although i did have a compression test done last week and numbers were 1-150 2-140 3-140 4-145 and from what i read this isn't to bad.

[sunny5280]

OK now im officially worried to shi$...I bought my 06 about 3 months ago and going threw the paperwork from P/O i saw 500 miles after he bought the car with 124,000 it says it was towed in to Dealership with a broken turbo shaft....Notes said they changed out filter along with turbo...Now at 150,000 and reading this thread I'm not gonna sleep for days...Although i did have a compression test done last week and numbers were 1-150 2-140 3-140 4-145 and from what i read this isn't to bad.

 

You're concerned about a repair that occurred 25K miles ago?

[JmP6889928]

When it's advertised with a "Brand New Turbo" = Kiss of Death. As Miles said, we see this at least a couple of times per month. I have another member right now that I'm sending information to who has exactly the same story-bought it, drove it for a month-POOF goes the turbo and potentially the shortblock.

 

I WISH we could publish something out in public that would warn people away from these ticking time bombs and it REALLY pisses me off when someone (and there's been quite a few so-called "members" on here that have done it) slaps a cheap Chinacharger on the car and just dumps it as a trade in because they are too damn cheap to fix the car the right way.

 

Subaru engines are pretty damn bulletproof when they are treated with maintenance and care. The turbos will easily run 150K plus when the maintenance is done. Yes, folks, even the VF40 will run that long and much longer (Hammerdown???).

 

Whenever you speak to anyone interested in that "Good Deal" on the 4th gen and "IT'S GOT A BRAND NEW TURBO", if you don't talk them out of the car, you're doing them a complete and VERY EXPENSIVE disservice.

[Dwizzle]

Relative good news Subaru fam - Went to back to the mechanic this morning and he told me 1) it is an OEM turbo replacement and 2) the timing belt has been changed recently.

 

So I'm going to take everyones advice and just drive it and maintain it. I'm going to take some of the oil and send it off to be tested to see if I should consider going ahead and replacing the engine.

 

Now it is time to get a new radio to replace the OEM one...

 

Also, gotta love indy shops. He only charge me $80 to inspect, clear the code, and replace a clamp on the turbo. He knows he'll be getting my future business.

[bdcvg]

Those Guys should get some business thrown their way.

[xt2005bonbon]

Subaru engines are pretty damn bulletproof when they are treated with maintenance and care. The turbos will easily run 150K plus when the maintenance is done. Yes, folks, even the VF40 will run that long and much longer (Hammerdown???).

 

Granted I am the second owner, my 06 has 148000 with original turbo and runs just fine. Been stage 2 for a while as well.

 

I second that these engines can run for a long time if you take care of them.

[robburns201]

You're concerned about a repair that occurred 25K miles ago?

IDK how many miles after turbo was replaced the engine goes??? But if your saying I'm pretty safe then, thank you.... And if I'm safe it goes to show that not all turbo replacement result in engine failure....A positive note for this thread

 

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

[MilesA]

IDK how many miles after turbo was replaced the engine goes??? But if your saying I'm pretty safe then, thank you.... And if I'm safe it goes to show that not all turbo replacement result in engine failure....A positive note for this thread

Sorry about that robburns201, just trying to state the facts. After 25K miles, you are probably fine, if there were a problem I think it would have shown itself by now.

 

The worst-case scenario doesn't always have to happen. Sounds like both you and the OP will avoid that. It is still a very good idea to make sure the turbo oil line is checked out if it hasn't been already. Either replace or remove that banjo bolt filter in the turbo oil line. A used oil analysis will give you a good idea of the health of your engine. BTW, your compression numbers are fine, too.

[Dwizzle]

Oil of choice here is T6 rotella 5w40.

 

Stopping on the way home. Going to start checking the oil at every gas up.

[Dwizzle]

I used to have a scanner cable for my TDI (VAG COM Ross Tech).

 

Is there a similar one for the GT?

[sunny5280]

Relative good news Subaru fam - Went to back to the mechanic this morning and he told me 1) it is an OEM turbo replacement and 2) the timing belt has been changed recently.

 

So I'm going to take everyones advice and just drive it and maintain it. I'm going to take some of the oil and send it off to be tested to see if I should consider going ahead and replacing the engine.

 

Now it is time to get a new radio to replace the OEM one...

 

Also, gotta love indy shops. He only charge me $80 to inspect, clear the code, and replace a clamp on the turbo. He knows he'll be getting my future business.

Recently I inquired of the forum if I should proactively replace my engine. The reason I was considering doing so is it consumes approximately one quart of oil every thousand miles. While I am told this is not abnormal for an engine with 150K miles I thought I would be proactive and replace it.

 

The advice given was to keep it topped up and address an engine replacement if a situation arose that would warrant doing so. IOW why spend $4K - $5K on proactively replacing the engine when it's operating fine? I thought this sound and sensible advice and heeded it. I think the same advice is applicable to your situation. Barring any solid reason to proactively replace your engine don't do it. Drive it until such time as there is a reason to.

[sunny5280]

IDK how many miles after turbo was replaced the engine goes??? But if your saying I'm pretty safe then, thank you.... And if I'm safe it goes to show that not all turbo replacement result in engine failure....A positive note for this thread

I'm saying if you were going to have an issue due to a failed turbo then it's likely said issue would have occurred prior to 25K miles. Therefore I think you don't have anything to worry about.