Nabsolute Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Hey guys. 2008 Spec.b w/ 62K miles Knocking when engine is warming up with RPM drop Sounds totally normal when up to temp... Anyone know if this is piston knock or?? Video below... Maybe you guys have some experience... or this is like ultra common... Or totally, utterly, bad. Check engine codes: P0011 & P0021 potentially camshaft sensor bad causing pre-ignition... Or oil control valve has failed prompting the sludge alarm? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swZ1iC4VMkk&feature=youtu.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Could be related to the timing belt components, such as tensioners and/or idlers. Have you had timing belt service done recently? Your car is about due since it is 105K miles or 105 months (~8.75 years). To me, it sounds like the tensioner is going out. It's commonly the first thing to go, and if your timing belt fails you will have expensive engine damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 could be related to the timing belt components, such as tensioners and/or idlers. Have you had timing belt service done recently? Your car is about due since it is 105k miles or 105 months (~8.75 years). To me, it sounds like the tensioner is going out. It's commonly the first thing to go, and if your timing belt fails you will have expensive engine damage. x2. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabsolute Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 Would the timing blow the codes as well? Not my car, yet. It's a 2008 spec.b with 62,000 miles for $10k. Worth $13 easy. Thinking engine flush, replace Solenoid and OCV, timing belt, fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 08's normally don't throw those codes. I couple short miles oil changes would be a good idea, after checking the OCV's. See if you can find out how the car was driven. Was it just for short trips, a couple miles and then shut off, or were they long highway miles. These cars don't like to be driven for short distance and shut off. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 The reason I suggested the timing belt service was because of the noise and the way you described it. Bad OCVs would not cause that noise. The codes may be related, or may be something else. Here is an excerpt from the Factory Service Manual re: P0011 -- Inspect the following items and repair or replace if necessary. • Engine oil (amount, contamination) • Oil pipe (clog) • Oil flow control solenoid valve (clog or contamination in oil passage, settling at spring, stuck at valve) • Intake camshaft (sludge, damage at camshaft) • Timing belt (timing mark aligning) You probably don't need to replace the OCVs, just inspect them and clean them. IMHO, an engine flush is usually a bad idea. The cons are you could dislodge crud that gets stuck somewhere else in the engine and you may encourage old seals to start leaking. Just use clean oil and filter and change it more frequently a few times. If you are willing to invest in a smartphone app called BtSSM, you can see your variable valve timing data displayed in real-time. You can find it on Google Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabsolute Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 This forum is awesome! (BTW I'm new here) I think it's two separate issues. The timing belt causing the noise, and the oil or OCV's going bad and tripping the codes... I don't know what a failing timing belt sounds like, but I hella trust you guys. I picked up a new OCV to replace the passenger side one from the dealer today if necessary. I have Automatic, the plug in computer that lets you clear codes on your phone app. I'm flying to Portland from Bend (oregon) on Saturday to pick it up (well, test drive and likely absolutely get it). Plan is: Get full synthetic oil change from a quick lube in PDX. Clear codes via app... Drive it the 160 miles home. Do another engine oil change with Amsoil 5w-30 + engine flush, idle for 15 minutes, drain, re-fill with Amsoil. I guess maybe I shouldn't do the engine flush if the codes don't blow on the way home? Full timing belt overhaul: Tensioners, idlers, H2o pump, etc scheduled for next week (Hopefully the belt doesn't blow on the way home). Also the banjo filter bolts... inspect/clean/replace? I wish someone would take a photo of a spec.b engine and draw arrows to these components. I've had (shockingly) carp luck with google and good images. What do you think of my plan? Original owner had it for 55k. No history Seller bought it in 2013 for 22K Always let it warm up, never rally'd it. Never drag raced. Only put 7000K miles on it in 4 years. Wasn't a daily driver: Wanted to keep it low miles because it's such a rare Subaru. Did regular oil changes with full synthetic rotella 5w-30 very cognizant of the turbo... Never parked under trees (sap)... Now all the issues, small child, buying house, etc... Reason for selling. I'm thinking timing belt overhaul and a few oil changes and maybe OCV replace and we're good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 banjo filters , https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2834394 you'll want this too, http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/ These cars don't do well idling to warm up, not a good thing. Start it and drive it. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabsolute Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Here's a video of the knocking/ticking. None at idle. Increase with RPM. The vid goes from 0 to 3K RPM's up and down to idle. Sounds like it's coming from the drivers side of the engine. Cleared all CEL codes before leaving. Oil was full and CLEAN! No codes tripped on the 160 mile journey home. Oil still full and clean after said 160 miles.. So any ideas? How completely F'ed am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted July 16, 2017 Moderators Share Posted July 16, 2017 You're effed. That's rod knock. You need a new motor. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted July 16, 2017 Moderators Share Posted July 16, 2017 Although you say it goes away when warm? If so, that's not likely to be rod knock. But if that's piston slap it's pretty horrible. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabsolute Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 at startup (knocking and then none at idle): Find the origin of the noise (held at about 1000 RPM's: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabsolute Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Yeah pretty sure it's rod knock... ... But this isn't... and it sounds VERY similar (the first thing he says is mobile devices make it sound worse than it is): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpD6pT2vFOQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabsolute Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Except the noise is worse at LOW rpm's... gets quieter at higher RPM's... After youtube-ing it, I'm not sure it's rod knock... I will definitely find out on Tuesday when I take it in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabsolute Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 So check this: Cold start: NO KNOCK Sounds normal until temp reaches 1/4 up, then the knock becomes audible at idle... Didn't bring it up to full temp because I'm worried about ruining it more... Was just moving the car. So: Cold start no noise. Knock audible at idle at 1/4 temp. Operating temp no knock at idle, loud at low RPM and quieter at high... Who wants to start placing bets? More back story: I'm the third owner. First was questionable. 2nd said when he bought it they knew it had some sort of mechanical issue but it was fine for now. In 2014 he took it to a dealer because of the faint "knock". They said it was fine to drive but would cost $1000 to diagnose because, dealer. He drove it 2000 miles between then and now. Car goes into the professionals Tuesday. Hoping for good news. Budgeting for bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWebb Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Do you own this car or want to buy it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth SpecB Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Sounds too fast to be rod knock but I wouldn't keep running the engine like that. Could possibly be piston slap but I would definitely check the tensioner by taking off timing cover on driver side and prying the tensioner down. If knock goes away you found your problem. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snm95ls Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 It's rod knock. Pretty typical for the sound to disappear as the load changes. You likely need a new engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth SpecB Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 To verify if it's rod knock, drain the oil and look for copper material. My rod knock sounded like this but the engine seized up not too long after Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabsolute Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 Took it to the mechanic last night Knowing this isn't a DIY job. He's never seen anything like it before. Taking the engine apart today. Potentially a lifter hitting, or a valve. Thing is, the car drives smooth. So will see what happens.... But yeah. New engine here we come. I'll likely have the lowest mileage spec.b in existence after this whole thing is over. Bought the car knowing the engine might be toast. Price tag reflected that. Anything can be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Just make sure he uses the right parts putting things back together. There are some items we recommend be replaced bases on age. They may end up costing 5-600 but in the long run...you'll get the payback. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200kSpecB Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I too have a 2008 Spec B and despite what max said, I had both P0011 and P0021 codes and I was minutes away from spinning a bearing. So if my experience means anything I would say that is 100% rod knock from oil contamination. I'm hoping I'm wrong but thats my bet EDIT: just saw your update, my car also drove perfectly fine even with the codes but I knew something was wrong. Like what Darth said, drain the oil, the metal was pretty hard to see in the drain pan but look inside the oil filter under some light and you should be able to see the glitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabsolute Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 UPDATE Ass hat that sold me the car rebuilt the engine... twice... Both were shit re-builds. They put in the wrong size pistons. So, sent the block off for rebuild, then did the air pump delete... Which required a tune so off the cliff we went... ended up doing the following; Stock Rebuilt EJ255 Spec B w/ race bearings by Outfront motorsports. Stock heads Custom VF52 20g PNP and Powder coated with upgraded 1bar/14psi wastegate by SoCal porting Modified stock TGV Deletes PNP Process West Vert Mount TMIC GFB Mach 2 Recirculating valve Invidia Downpipe Catted Divorced Wastegate Invidia headers/up pipe Invidia Q300 Catback Exhaust Mishimoto Performance Aluminum Radiator Mishimoto Radiator Hose Kit Black COBB Top Feed 1050x Fuel Injectors COBB Silicone Turbo Inlet COBB SF intake system COBB SF Airbox COBB 3-Port Boost Control Solenoid AEM High Flow Fuel Pump Grimspeed Phenolic spacers 8mm NGK spark plugs Just waiting on the turbo and TGV delete to come back from so cal porting.. then a tune from clark tuning... this is going to be the sickest Spec.b out there. Brand spanking new with 62K chassis miles.. I'm keeping this thing forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Sounds like a nice build. Use good oil and keep up with the maintenance. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I too have a 2008 Spec B and despite what max said, I had both P0011 and P0021 codes and I was minutes away from spinning a bearing. So if my experience means anything I would say that is 100% rod knock from oil contamination. I'm hoping I'm wrong but thats my bet EDIT: just saw your update, my car also drove perfectly fine even with the codes but I knew something was wrong. Like what Darth said, drain the oil, the metal was pretty hard to see in the drain pan but look inside the oil filter under some light and you should be able to see the glitter. Your one of the few to have both those codes compared to the large number of us with 05-06's. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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