05 GT Intermittent Starting Issue

[QToo]

I have an 05 GT with about 170K on it that my daughters drive. Over the past month, I have been having an intermittent problem with the car starting. The first time it happened all arrows pointed to a bad battery. There was some of the blue/green schmutz on the negative terminal. I used the baking soda to remove, but still nothing. Replaced the battery and problem went away.

 

Fast forward a week, same problem, no start. No lights on inside and couldnt jump. There was some more of the schmutz on the negative and this time I took it off the battery and cleaned the inside to bright copper. Car started right up.

 

Fast forward a month. Car has been fine with no issues. Daughter takes for weekend, goes to start, nothing. No lights, no start. Tries to jump, nothing. Leaves it and comes back an hour later, starts right up. Huhhhh???

 

The new millenium teenager - the car "is unreliable and always breaks down. We need to a new one". Lets gloss over that it has never stranded her, AND the most important thing - IT'S FREE, DOESNT COST HER A DIME. Sorry for the rant, I can post another topic on that subject. :-) :-)

 

Any ideas? Starter? alternator? There are the grounding cables that from the engine to the chassis that have corroded thru, so no connection. Could this be causing the schmutz problem and thus a bad connection to full battery power?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Max Capacity]

First off check the grounds from the engine to chassis, should be one from both heads. Other grounds are on the back of the intake manifold by the brake booster, you may see those in my click here link in my sig.

 

I'd clean the starter terminals too.

 

Do you own a volt meter ? Harbor Fright gives them away with a purchase if you have the coupon.

 

I wonder if the voltage regulator in the alternator is over charging the battery ?

[QToo]

Not familiar with the Click Here link in a sig. Went to your contact page but didnt see anything. I did see you were in the Formula 1 Thread. What did you think of yesterdays race? I loved the post race comment from Coulthard to Bottas about him and Kimi. That was hysterical!

 

On the grounds from the engine, I know one of these is cut in half. What can I use to replace or connect these?

[MilesA]

...On the grounds from the engine, I know one of these is cut in half. What can I use to replace or connect these?

You can buy new ones online or from the local auto parts store. Ideally, you're looking for a woven wire strap of the same or slightly longer length than came stock. AC Delco makes some good ones. Not expensive, around $5 to $10.

[Max Capacity]

Not familiar with the Click Here link in a sig. Went to your contact page but didnt see anything. I did see you were in the Formula 1 Thread. What did you think of yesterdays race? I loved the post race comment from Coulthard to Bottas about him and Kimi. That was hysterical!

 

On the grounds from the engine, I know one of these is cut in half. What can I use to replace or connect these?

 

Just click you mouse on the blue click here in my sig in every post I make.

 

It will take you to my rebuild thread which has lots of pictures and some thought's on forged pistons.

 

I enjoy watching the post race interviews, Coulthard does a good job. I also enjoy Eddy Jordan. I remember seeing him in Canada when he was team owner, he was just standing outside the metro station on the island, just being amazed at all the people.

 

I'm also a Bottas fan.

[QToo]

I was totally looking in the wrong place. That is quite a thread on the rebuild. I am at about page 12 and will finish later on. Thank you for sharing that with everyone, so much education included.

[Max Capacity]

Here's what I made up.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN5215_zps4651c6e9.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN5218_zps47b42c1c.jpg

 

Here's the ones on the back of the intake, those are the heater hose nipples there.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN4706_zps5ba71203.jpg

[QToo]

I am now very perplexed on this issue. Car was starting fine all day yesterday. The grounding wire on the left side of the engine was torn in two, so I took the advice to create grounding wires. I saw a post on an Outback site with pictures of a ground loop between the right strut area to the block and then continuing on to the battery negative. The car didnt get home until late so I made a wire to go from the bat ground to the block. Below is an overview, sorry for being so lengthy, but wanted to give as much info as possible.

 

Before I attached this wire, I started the car up no problem. I then attached the ground wire and reattached the battery cables. The engine did the extra cranking as it usually does after the neg has been removed (resetting?). I stopped to give it a break, went to try and crank it again - it clicked and then all power was lost. No interior lights, no dash, no nothing.

 

I then took the battery cables off, let set for a minute and re-attached (saw the small spark on attach). Dome light came back on, key to start position but not to crank, dash lights came up, go to start, 1 click, no power again. I checked the battery level and appeared to be OK for juice. Let it sit and then back at it this morning.

 

This morning, I removed the new ground wire from the equation and back to orig setup. Removed cables, re-attach, saw small spark - lights come on, crank, 1 click then no power. To rule out the battery, I jumped the car and it started right up. Let it run for about 10 minutes, no issues. Turned it off and tried to immediately restart, 1 click, no power. My battery charger was showing 100%.

 

Any ideas? Is the starter bad? A solenoid? I took video as I was trying to start it and can upload if you think it would help.

[Infosecdad]

Sounds like the starter solenoid is drawing too much power for the battery. If you can take it off, you can bring it to an Autozone or similar for testing.

From what you are describing, I would guess that you will end up needing to replace the starter.

[MilesA]

When you say "no power" do you mean the starter does not engage at all or do you mean all the lights go off like the battery is drained?

 

If the starter solenoid is sticking, the starter motor will not come on. The starter has to be engaged with the flywheel before the starter motor will even turn over.

[QToo]

As soon as I hear the 1 click, none of the electrical is working. No dash, no dome light, no power seats. Not until I take off the battery cables that the "power" is restored.

[MilesA]

I'd concur with Infosecdad it makes sense to remove the starter and test it on a bench. That should tell you whether or not the starter is the root cause of this weird problem.

[QToo]

Thanks to all for the guidance. I will pull the starter and check it.

[QToo]

An Update and now thoroughly confused. All the info was pointing to a bad starter solenoid, so I went and purchased a used starter and installed it last night. The car started right up and I let it run for a few minutes, all fine. Turned it off, waited a few minutes, car started right back up. Excellent, but wait.

 

After reading info on the grounding wires to the engine and seeing what Max Capacity did, I re-installed the new ground wire that I had created. Turned the key to pre-start position, dash came up, turn key, 1 click, lose all electrical power. I gave up, disconnected the battery terminals and went to bed.

 

Woke up this morning, reconnected the terminals and now I cant even get the power back. No dome light, no dash, no nothing. Checked the battery and it has good power. Checked the minor fuses, all good.

 

Any ideas? Is the grounding wire causing the issue? I didnt pull the starter as I have to remove the intercooler, so wasnt able to check if that is still good.

[Max Capacity]

Sounds like that ground wire you installed is a problem child.

[QToo]

I pulled that off so it is no longer in the loop. Still dont have the power back. I will pull the IC later on. How can I check the "new" starter to see if it works or if it is even getting power?

[QToo]

I took that ground wire off so it is out of the loop completely. Pulled the terminals to reset and still no power. I will take off the IC and have access to the "new" starter. How can I test if the starter is still good? Or that it is getting power?

[Infosecdad]

Can you post some pictures of the wiring you have? Top of the battery, new grounding wire, etc. (you may need to resize the pictures to 1024 for the longer side to get them to upload or host from photo hosting site).

It sounds like you are grounding out somewhere, just having trouble picturing where.

 

You might need to check some of the primary fuses, sounds like one of them might have tripped/blown.

 

You can try to "jump" the new starter, but I usually take them to a parts store like Autozone, advance, oreilly, etc as they should have a bench tester that will measure the amp draw and what not.

[Max Capacity]

Agree you might be better off having the new one tested by a machine.

[QToo]

Here is a picture of the ground wire that may be causing the issue with the new starter. I think I am linking the picture properly. The ground wire, maybe not. The battery doesnt look pretty because I have not been able to wash off the baking soda mix and the sanding residue from the cleaning I did on the Neg terminal.

 

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah190/wildcatapps/20170627_073203_zpssxurlejj.jpg

 

Here is a picture of the Subaru lower ground strap that has torn in 2.

 

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah190/wildcatapps/20170627_073226_zps2igkdvim.jpg

[Max Capacity]

I still don't understand why you need that cable form the battery ?

 

I don't think anyone else has that.

 

 

That lower wire is the same on both sides. Most likely both are bad.

[Max Capacity]

Here's my 09's.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN7323_zpsnyfe5sad.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN7326_zps44ry4yfg.jpg

 

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN7329_zps3w3j5xru.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN7328_zpsp0lv7cty.jpg

[pdx_lgt]

I've had issues with my key's immobilizer chip getting displaced, and preventing my car from starting reliably. I originally thought it might be a starter issue or some parasitic battery drain, but when I happen to used my OEM key rather than my replacement key+fob the car started no problem.

[Infosecdad]

Here is a picture of the ground wire that may be causing the issue with the new starter. I think I am linking the picture properly. The ground wire, maybe not. The battery doesnt look pretty because I have not been able to wash off the baking soda mix and the sanding residue from the cleaning I did on the Neg terminal.

 

Where does the other end of that additional ground wire go? I would focus on ensuring you have good engine -> frame ground and battery -> frame ground, not battery to engine ground (which if the ground strap to the frame is still broken may cause issues).

 

Also, did you find a main fuse or similar that was causing the lack of power?

[QToo]

Knock on wood, I think the issue ended up being a severely corroded ground terminal wire. The fuses all looked good and I took the starter to Advance Auto and it tested fine. Bought new terminal leads to replace the original on the car. Peeled back the outer sleeve and cut off the neg lead, attached and it powered right up. Replaced the pos for good measure and the daughters have been driving all day.

 

Thanks to all for the remote diagnosis, advice and knowledge. Hopefully someone will see this if they have an issue and be able to diagnose the problem much faster than myself.

 

Enjoy the 4th Holiday!