How much is too much?

[200kSpecB]

Just finished splitting the block on my 08 spec B and I'm hoping for some help from people who know a lot more than I do

 

Some might recognize me but the gist of the story is I got both P0011/21 codes, drove the car a couple kms home and parked it there since March. When I finally got into it, it was clear that I had metal in the oil.

 

My main question now is: How much of this longblock is salvageable?

I'm not opposed to getting a new SB and even new heads but mostly out of curiosity's sake I was wondering if anything could be saved.

 

This is one of the main bearings, some significant scoring can be seen.

 

I noticed these "cracks" between cylinders 1 and 3, not sure if this is normal or something of concern.

 

This is one of the camshafts.

 

Here you can see the worst of the damage done to the heads.

 

And finally this is the block under one of the main bearings.

 

I can't upload my picture of the crank for whatever reason but it looks similar to the camshaft, all rods moved freely with no resistance and I never spun any bearing, just lots and lots of scoring...

 

Thanks for all the help!

[Max Capacity]

You need to find a great local machine shop and have them tell you what you need to do. They can fix lots of small things, but they need to see the parts, it can't be done over the internet.

[200kSpecB]

sounds good, thanks max

[Max Capacity]

Let us know how you make out...

 

Lot's of info here on rebuilding these.

 

Good Luck

[Darth SpecB]

As far as the cracks, I havent seen those before but they might just be casting imperfections. It's hard to tell from photos. The main bearings should be fine if you replace them with brand new ones. Where it sits is not a big deal if you didn't spin any. New crankshaft, rod/main bearings, rods, pistons, fresh bore with home. And your shortvlock should be good as new. That is ofcourse if the cracks between the cylinders do not compromise structural integrity. Those cylinder head journals look scary. If you can feel them with your fingernail, I would see if the machine shop can go about cutting the caps and reboring the cam journals. Mine were scored similarly but not enough to cause oiling issues. Good luck!

 

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[200kSpecB]

...rods, pistons, fresh bore with hone...

 

Is this stuff necessary or just recommended? Replacing the rings I would understand but as for the pistons and rods could you explain that?

 

Either way, thanks for the help! I'm waiting for a chance to call up some shops to see what they can suggest for the heads, otherwise there's a 2006 OBXT longblock in the FS section right now... It's my understanding the heads should be identical (D25) for both 06/08 just with re-routed OCV/turbo oil lines on the passenger side? Can anyone confirm? lol

[Max Capacity]

Ask Benny, see post 165,

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/oem-online-subaru-parts-vendors-list-42243p5.html

 

Remember to buy something from him too if you need parts.

[Darth SpecB]

Is this stuff necessary or just recommended? Replacing the rings I would understand but as for the pistons and rods could you explain that?

 

Either way, thanks for the help! I'm waiting for a chance to call up some shops to see what they can suggest for the heads, otherwise there's a 2006 OBXT longblock in the FS section right now... It's my understanding the heads should be identical (D25) for both 06/08 just with re-routed OCV/turbo oil lines on the passenger side? Can anyone confirm? lol

Definitely not necessary. I reused my rods and pistons. A lot of people like to buy new pistons because you can have all 4 for around 100$ As far as a fresh hone, that all depends on how your cylinder walls look. Personally i like a fresh hone for the new rings to seat to. Good luck!

 

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[Max Capacity]

FWIW, remember to install ARP head studs. You'll be happy you did.

[200kSpecB]

I found a local machinist who does a lot of Subarus; he's confident the heads and cams can be polished up so I'm giving that a shot. Similarly, because of a deep scratch in #4, he's recommending I bore the block out and go with oversize pistons. Instead of getting a new crank I think I'll get him to machine the old one.

 

Can anyone think of any reason I shouldn't be going with oversize pistons or a machined crank? Doesn't seem like common practice among you guys just wondering if there's a reason why.

[Max Capacity]

You found a good shop, let them do what they know is the best way to go. Ask them which pistons they recommend and how they will make sure each cylinder is bored for which piston will go in it.

 

See if assemble the long block for you and makes sure all parts are clean.

 

My machine shop assembled my ej257 into a long block. So glad I let them do what they do.

 

90,000 miles later the engine is awesome.

[Darth SpecB]

If he can machine the crank for under 300, id say go for it because that's the price of a brand new Sti heat treated crank. Also I would verify you can get undersized bearings that can fill in the few thousanths that is shaved off.

 

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[200kSpecB]

If he can machine the crank for under 300, id say go for it because that's the price of a brand new Sti heat treated crank. Also I would verify you can get undersized bearings that can fill in the few thousanths that is shaved off.

 

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He let me know it should only cost about $225 (and thats canadian too) so I was pretty happy with that deal. I asked him a lot of questions about the bearings and how it would all work and he assured me that it would be no problem for him to source the bearings and fit it all. Bringing it in tomorrow, just hoping all goes well!

[xtea]

Why would you not just go brand new sti heat treated?

[200kSpecB]

Why would you not just go brand new sti heat treated?

 

Mainly due to cost, from what I've read there's really no "performance" differences between the cranks even with the STIs being heat treated. And I just cant justify spending $450 Canadian when I can have him machine my old one for half that.

[Max Capacity]

Mainly due to cost, from what I've read there's really no "performance" differences between the cranks even with the STIs being heat treated. And I just cant justify spending $450 Canadian when I can have him machine my old one for half that.

 

Yep, I agree this is the best way for you. Use the money saved to buy new oil cooler and new other parts.

[200kSpecB]

Can anyone recommend any modifications I should consider while the engine is out? I plan on going stage 2 for now and then eventually working my up to stage 3.

 

For general maintenance I'm going with new coil packs, plugs, vacuum hoses, and anything oil related is getting replaced too. I have subaru main bearings, king rod bearings, and new subaru +0.5 oversize pistons + rings going in.

 

For aftermarket parts Im looking at a CNT catless DP, a grimmspeed 3-port ebcs, an IAG "street" AOS, and probably a mishimoto turbo inlet since I snapped a nipple off the OEM one. I think I'll try and get Dave at cryotune to send me a tune after I'm done with the break in process on the rings.

 

Let me know what you guys think

[StkmltS]

Skip the AOS because its expensive overkill for a street car

ARP head studs (as already mentioned)

Moroso oil pickup

Mishimoto intercooler-throttle body hose

Delete your TGVs

Oil pressure sensor (use the preexisting port in the block, left TGV signal)

Wideband O2 sensor (weld a bung in your DP, right TGV signal)

New shifter bushings (Energy Suspension or big money Kartboy)

BtSsm to monitor and log

[Max Capacity]

Your going to want to talk to Dave now. He'll know what to send you for a break in MAP.

 

My wagon has a AOS, check it out in my click here link. I have not put one on my Spec.

[200kSpecB]

Skip the AOS because its expensive overkill for a street car

ARP head studs (as already mentioned)

Moroso oil pickup

Mishimoto intercooler-throttle body hose

Delete your TGVs

Oil pressure sensor (use the preexisting port in the block, left TGV signal)

Wideband O2 sensor (weld a bung in your DP, right TGV signal)

New shifter bushings (Energy Suspension or big money Kartboy)

BtSsm to monitor and log

 

I got:

- ARP head studs

- Mishimoto TB hose and turbo inlet

- a BtSsm and a tactrix

- CNT catless DP with the extra O2 bung

- new stock oil pickup

 

Can you elaborate on the TGVs? from what I've read it's not worth it unless you're putting out big power? And for the oil pressure sensor: are you saying to replace the old OEM one with a new one? or something else?

 

Thanks for the info though, I really appreciate it

[200kSpecB]

Your going to want to talk to Dave now. He'll know what to send you for a break in MAP.

 

My wagon has a AOS, check it out in my click here link. I have not put one on my Spec.

 

I was actually planning on breaking in the engine with the stock tune, and after the break in I would put on the DP and tune for stage 2. I'm thinking this is the easiest and maybe safest? Or does having oversize pistons and a machined crank require a tune?

 

For the AOS, I know the consensus on here is that they're overkill but before I pulled the engine out all my intake hoses were coated in oil so I figured it cant hurt to put it on.

[TickerPyro]

IMO the cast/unknown crack is a concern if you plan on going to a stage 2 then 3. You are saying eventually you want to run 500whp and that is not a good look to start off with. I would take some type of a grinder and take a touch off the crack spot and see how far it goes. Plus look at both sides and look for any more inaccuracies that may lead to fracture.

If you are going to spend all the time and money on "new clearanced" pretty much everything, you might as well pick up a heat treated block from Energyblue98 and start with a monster. Just saying it would be a shame to do the work and have that bang clunk clunk clunk on a monster, just because you wanted to save 750$ =/

[rhino6303]

 

Can you elaborate on the TGVs? from what I've read it's not worth it unless you're putting out big power? And for the oil pressure sensor: are you saying to replace the old OEM one with a new one? or something else?

 

Thanks for the info though, I really appreciate it

 

He's saying to delete your tgvs and use the connectors on the harness for an aftermarket oil pressure transducer and a wideband sensor.

 

You can create custom parameters in Btssm and log through the connector that used to be used for your tgv.

[StkmltS]

^ what he said.

It's worth deleting the TGVs just to be able to use the input signals for other gauges.

You can DIY delete them if you have the motivation and a rotary tool (dremel or die grinder).

 

Adding an oil pressure sensor is relatively easy. There's already an unused port on the top side of the engine block near the transmission and It's already tapped (threaded). All you have to do is tap a 1/8npt hole into an m18 oil drain plug and screw in your oil pressure sensor.

 

There's a good thread on here somewhere about logging wbo2 via TGV input. Wiring the signal for the oil pressure sensor works exactly the same way.

[200kSpecB]

^ what he said.

It's worth deleting the TGVs just to be able to use the input signals for other gauges.

You can DIY delete them if you have the motivation and a rotary tool (dremel or die grinder).

 

Adding an oil pressure sensor is relatively easy. There's already an unused port on the top side of the engine block near the transmission and It's already tapped (threaded). All you have to do is tap a 1/8npt hole into an m18 oil drain plug and screw in your oil pressure sensor.

 

There's a good thread on here somewhere about logging wbo2 via TGV input. Wiring the signal for the oil pressure sensor works exactly the same way.

 

Thanks for the info I'll definitely look into it, seems like a huge pain in the ass lol but also seems worth it. Just so I'm understanding correctly, you would run two oil pressure sensors?