carrman Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Folks, I'm being offered an '05 LGT Limited wagon by a local dealer. Manual trans car which is what I've been looking for. They are offering it to me for $26523. This is after taking the 1500 rebate, and 596 dollars in holdback money. They want to keep the dealer cash of 500 dollars as their profit, as they say that's all they will get. What says this group? Only options I can see added are the auto dimming mirror, and rear cargo tray. Is this a decent deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Based on your info this sounds high. Let's figure it out. Base invoice should be $27,961, unless they have to pay regional advertising - they should show you their actual invoice so you'll know. Let's just use base National invoice and assume they're paying the $275 regional advertising fee (it wouldn't be any higher than this - it could be less though) - you have: base invoice including freight of $27,961 + $275 ad fee + $119 for autodim, and $46 for the rear tray = $28,401. Their holdback (2% of base MSRP) and your rebate taken off this results in $26,305, not $26,523, so unless you're not revealing all the options on the car, you're getting shafted. Also, even at $26,305, they have at least an additional $1300 profit on this car ($596 mkt assist + $500 dealer cash + $200 (approx) floorplan allowance + possibly additional volume incentives). So no, not a good deal, not even close. Personally, if our $26,305 figure is accurate, I wouldn't pay more than $25.3 - i.e. a grand less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrman Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 Skibum, your figures sound good, might I inquire as to how you reached them? I'm using facts I've found on this forum to beat these guys up on this car, and I want to be able to prove why I'm demanding such a low price. Btw, you rock for the help you just gave me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerste Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 When I bought my LGT I used edmunds.com to price it out and to see what others in my area were paying for the car. Also, considering it's an '05 they should be a little more eager to move that car off their lot. I bought mine just 2 weeks ago for well under invoice, and well under what edmunds.com said I would be able to get. I built an '05 Limited 2.5 GT wagon on Edmunds, added the options you listed and came up with $28,078 for the sticker, $25,827 for the invoice, and $24,270 as what people are paying after the rebate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Well, 1) from doing a lot of research myself (I'm currently in the mkt for an '05 Legacy GT MT Wagon), 2) from a friend of mine who's in the auto leasing biz and has all this great inside price info, and 3) from this terrific website: http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2005.html#price You'll notice there are three different prices for 2005 Legacys - from the holdback figure you provided I know the car you're considering is priced at the Sept. '04 level (build date should be between 9/04 and 3/05). The gentleman who runs that website (Joe Spitz) is a Subie sales agent/enthusiast in Washington State. Also, from my buddy in the leasing biz, I know how they calculate the holdback and market assist. For a manual transmission Legacy the easy method is to take 4% of the base MSRP, not including freight - that will be your combined number, which in your case is $1192. They're only offering you half of that - the 2% holdback (or 2% market assist, take your pick). I wouldn't expect a dealer to give up their floorplan allowance, but at this late date, I'd expect them to at least give up most of the $1192 and the $500 dealer cash. This car has potentially been sitting on their lot for a year, the '06s have been out for nearly 3 months... it's a model year old now...come on! It's depreciating by the second I would ask to see the invoice (even ask them to provide you with a copy) before doing any futher negotiation. You need to level the playing field as much as you can (you'll never know what kind of regional incentives they may be getting for sales volume, meeting certain targets, etc), so you at least need to see their actual invoice sheet. Then offer say $3500 under invoice, and work towards hammering out a final price that's between $3000 to $2750 under invoice... Voila! I assume very little mileage on the car? <50. Otherwise I'd want additional price concessions. That's how I'd approach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 When I bought my LGT I used edmunds.com to price it out and to see what others in my area were paying for the car. Also, considering it's an '05 they should be a little more eager to move that car off their lot. I bought mine just 2 weeks ago for well under invoice, and well under what edmunds.com said I would be able to get. I built an '05 Limited 2.5 GT wagon on Edmunds, added the options you listed and came up with $28,078 for the sticker, $25,827 for the invoice, and $24,270 as what people are paying after the rebate. His Limited GT Wagon stickers at $30,628, not $28,078. You looked up the price for a non-limited wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrman Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 I offered 25,623, and their reply was "no, but thanks for playing". Problem I have is this is the ONLY manual trans GT wagon in Oregon, Washington, or Norcal that I can find. I'm in Oregon, so at least I'm not subject to sales taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hmmm, it is good there's no sales tax in OR. But shoot, that's just too much to pay (keep in mind I'll walk over a $100 difference, Ima cheap sumbitch). There sure are a bunch of Subie dealers in WA and OR - I haven't checked, but are you certain there're no other GT Ltd 5-spd wagons in the NW? Why don't you call up Joe Spitz at his dealership (Carter Subaru) in Seattle? I'm sure he'd gladly do a regional inventory search for ya - plus, maybe he would beat their price and work a swap between this dealer and Carter. Who are these guys anyway? I have a friend in Sacramento who's thinking about a 3.0L Outback, I wanna be sure to avoid them when I'm helping him source his car! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrman Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 Skibum, I've been searching all over the dealer websites here in Oregon, Washington, and Northern California, to no avail. There is a base GT wagon 5 spd in Sacto, but that's it for now. Cascade Subaru in Klamath Falls, OR is where this Limited is. Shoulda been with me last night as local dealer here in Medford tried to hose me for 24 grand for an '05 WRX wagon..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Thanks for the heads up on Cascade, Carrman. You know, you could just keep hammerin' on 'em...they might eventually cave-in, especially as month-end gets closer. Or still contact Joe at Carter to see if he could do a swap, provided he'll beat Cascade's price enough to make it worth your while to get the car in Seattle. And the other thing you could do is....increase your search radius. $24K for an '05 WRX...gee what a "steal" that woulda been! (them stealing from you!) Wonder if they realize '05 Saab 9-2X Aeros are going for $18K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerste Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 His Limited GT Wagon stickers at $30,628, not $28,078. You looked up the price for a non-limited wagon. Oops! Sorry. I tend to get confused on the Edmunds site every so often. Still, after looking at the wagon pricing it shouldn't be too much to ask for them to hit more in the $25k range. $26k or more is just too much for an '05 when the '06's have already been on the lots for 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrman Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 Well, as per Skibum's suggestion, I've e-mailed Joe Spitz. Seems there are a few 5 speed Limiteds in the greater Sea-Tac area. Maybe Joe can do a miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Oops! Sorry. I tend to get confused on the Edmunds site every so often. Still, after looking at the wagon pricing it shouldn't be too much to ask for them to hit more in the $25k range. $26k or more is just too much for an '05 when the '06's have already been on the lots for 3 months. Thanks Kerste. That's totally understandable....I'm not a huge fan of Edmunds myself. That site just seems so "busy" to me. And yep I agree - for the car he's lookin' at, mid $25s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 ... BTW, what do you think of the OBP paint on your GT? Is it a nightmare to keep it looking good? The car I have my eye on is also OBP. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerste Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 BTW, what do you think of the OBP paint on your GT? Is it a nightmare to keep it looking good? The car I have my eye on is also OBP. Thanks. Well, I just bought the car about 2 weeks ago so I can't really give a good opinion. I've washed it twice (this past sunday and the one before) and I think it looks great. It rained the day after I washed it the first time, and it didn't really look too bad after it got nice and dirty. The car I had before this one was silver and I never ever washed it because it never looked dirty, but I have not had one second thought about the OBP. It's gorgeous (dirty or clean) and it looks especially nice when the sun hits the metal flake and makes it look almost dark teal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraysonSubaru Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 my big suggestion would be to ask them to see invoice (or build the car on Edmunds.com). take the invoice amount, subtract the $1500 rebate, $1200 in holdback, and $250 of the dealer cash. On a left over 2005, I would think they would take the deal and move on...or at least should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrman Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 my big suggestion would be to ask them to see invoice (or build the car on Edmunds.com). take the invoice amount, subtract the $1500 rebate, $1200 in holdback, and $250 of the dealer cash. On a left over 2005, I would think they would take the deal and move on...or at least should. They won't, and claim 596 is holdback. Also won't let go of the dealer cash. They claim it's a deal killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraysonSubaru Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 hmm. i dont know why they claim that is holdback. On my LGT Limited that I bought I had just over $1100 in holdback. regardless, I would look elsewhere. If they do not want to get rid of a 2005 that bad, then someone else will. We were/are giving all of holdback and pretty much everything except about $100 just to get rid of the remaining 2005's. we still have a couple though (including a 2005 5 speed LGT limited in atl. blue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hi Grayson, you know this better than most of us being in the biz, but technically, they're right. Holdback is just 2% of base MSRP - the other 2% portion of "holdback" is now called market assistance by Subaru. They obviously believe they'll sell it for the higher price to someone else. Carrman - hopefully Joe Spitz can help you out. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrman Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 Don't look like he can. He says he can only 500 bucks better. Not worth an 8 hour drive to save only that much. Not sure what I'm going to do as of yet, only the one dealer in Oregon has a car I want, the rest are in Seattle it seems. I thought about checking in CA, but don't know if they will waive sales tax or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraysonSubaru Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Don't look like he can. He says he can only 500 bucks better. Not worth an 8 hour drive to save only that much. Not sure what I'm going to do as of yet, only the one dealer in Oregon has a car I want, the rest are in Seattle it seems. I thought about checking in CA, but don't know if they will waive sales tax or not. Sales tax should only paid on where the car is registered at, not where purchased if purchased out of state. If there is a lien recorded on the vehicle, the dealers are usually required to collect your local sales tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraysonSubaru Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hi Grayson, you know this better than most of us being in the biz, but technically, they're right. Holdback is just 2% of base MSRP - the other 2% portion of "holdback" is now called market assistance by Subaru. They obviously believe they'll sell it for the higher price to someone else. QUOTE] Correct, but since each dealer gets that, equalling 4%, it can be considered all holdback as far as a customer is concerned because a dealer can techincally call that profit.....a lot like dealer cash, but dealer cash be vary (or not even be available) whereas this is always there and does not change because it is not dependant on anything like the floorplan money is. The floorplan assistance that was mentioned (not sure if that was in this tread) is dependant on who your floorplan is with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraysonSubaru Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 If you will give me the Interior/Exterior color combo(s) you are looking for, I can run the locator in your state along with any others to see who has what and let you know the colors, options, MSRP, etc for anything found. The computer allows me to do three exterior color searches at once. The interior color choice is done with the model number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Well, I just bought the car about 2 weeks ago so I can't really give a good opinion. I've washed it twice (this past sunday and the one before) and I think it looks great. It rained the day after I washed it the first time, and it didn't really look too bad after it got nice and dirty. The car I had before this one was silver and I never ever washed it because it never looked dirty, but I have not had one second thought about the OBP. It's gorgeous (dirty or clean) and it looks especially nice when the sun hits the metal flake and makes it look almost dark teal. that's good news. It's been a longtime since I had a black car, but have no fond memories of keeping it clean. I like that it's still "gorgeous" regardless of cleanliness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 If you will give me the Interior/Exterior color combo(s) you are looking for, I can run the locator in your state along with any others to see who has what and let you know the colors, options, MSRP, etc for anything found. The computer allows me to do three exterior color searches at once. The interior color choice is done with the model number. Hey Grayson, I've sent you a private message. Thanks. Oh, and yeah, it was in another thread in this section that you and I were discussing the Floorplan assistance, in which I sent this link: 2006 Legacy/Outback pricing info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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