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Track Day advice/suggestions?


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So.. Update: will look into putting the Konis back on temporarily and getting the RCEs rebuilt.

 

Picked up some Rota Slipstreams in 17x8.5, ET 40. Looking for 245/40/17 tires. RE71s are out of stock for months. Right now, Firestone is running a $100 off $500 promotion - anyone ever tried the "Wide Oval Indy" tires? I could get those for maybe $400-450 out the door.. As long as they're not "don't ever run these on the track", maybe I should go cheaper on the first set of tires, so I don't feel too bad about ruining them? :lol:

 

I heard the Ventus EV12s aren't track worthy, otherwise I could have had a set of those for maybe $250-300 out the door over Memorial day..

 

Tirerack has them at 88.25 each - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?gclid=CMrO8qiJvtQCFYlqfgodnIEAIA&tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Firehawk+Wide+Oval+Indy+500&partnum=44WR7FHWI5&GCID=C13674x012-tire&KEYWORD=tires.jsp_Firestone_Firehawk_Wide_Oval_Indy_500_Tire&code=yes&src=17540115&ci_sku=44WR7FHWI5&ci_sku=44WR7FHWI5&ci_src=17588969&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!72322456453!!!g!112375988893!&ef_id=WRpmlAAAAHOo_SYY:20170614193019:s

 

for that money, who cares? Buy them. Watch your tire pressures. Check them when you get off track and reset them back to expected psi when they are hot.

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I have those tires. They're an excellent street tire for fairly aggressive driving. They're also really good tires for wet weather (I'm PNW so that was a must). They are no track tire, but if you're anything like me, you likely won't approach the limits of them quite yet anyway. They performed admirably and predictably for like 4-6 hours plus the drive home. Get them, learn the car, buy something sticky next year.
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Oh, while I'm thinking of it: I'm assuming that one rule for the track is - never drive on a tire that's been patched? Or are patches actually strong enough to survive on the track?
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I've heard lots of good things about those, Franz. Just wondering if I can get a cheaper set for the first time - as long as I don't crash because of it.

 

Tirerack has only 1 tire left at $88, but Firestone has them for $105 with a $60 mail-in rebate, so $15/tire off, or $90/tire. Out the door, after rebate, it's around $500 all said and done. Shipping R-S4s from Tirerack and having it installed at the same place locally would be $800+.

 

Not trying to endanger myself for $300, but as wesley says - I doubt I'd even max these out first time around..

 

Unless the R-S4 are that much better that it's worth $300 to a newb?

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Oh, while I'm thinking of it: I'm assuming that one rule for the track is - never drive on a tire that's been patched? Or are patches actually strong enough to survive on the track?

 

no. Just say no. If you have as much money as you have alluded to, then you have ppl depending on you. This is not how to save money at the track. Tires are the one place to not scrimp.

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We've been using this tire, https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Sumitomo&tireModel=HTR+Z+III , on our race mustang for the last 2 track days. It's been a good performer and wears well. It's not a race tire, but does handle the flogging and abuse of some of my team mates really well.

 

Lots of opinions on tires. My first track day was on snow tires. It doesn't matter what you use. As long as in good condition and inflated properly.

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no. Just say no. If you have as much money as you have alluded to, then you have ppl depending on you. This is not how to save money at the track. Tires are the one place to not scrimp.

 

Thanks. Just wanted to confirm.

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Just my two cents (and to add to what boxkita said): don't overthink it.

 

 

Your first couple of days on the track, you're just going to be finding out what the car can do and what you're willing to do. It doesn't matter what tires you're running, so long as they are relatively new, are matched, not damaged, and inflated properly. Performance a/s tires are great for beginners because they're very communicative and the limits aren't scary-high when you screw something up.

 

 

I used the Ventus evo2 on the track and they're fine to get you started. They're a solid step below MPSS, but they're also half the price. They also make a good street tire for when you want to upgrade to MPSS/MPS4.

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FYI I bought a set of close out tires in 2005 from tirerack and found out later that they were 3 years old, when I bought then. They worked fine in 2005-7, I blew the motor in 2007 and took 2008 to build up the motor; the tires were hard as a rock and junk in 2009 when Igor the vehicle back on the road . I was pissed because I only got about 2k good miles out of them and the were garage practically 100% of the time. After I checked the date codes I realized what happened. I ended up throwing them away with less than 5k miles.
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If I was you, and I had the benefit of 8 years of ppl going to the track in LGT's?

 

1. I'd go down to the Les Schwab and buy a set of ss595's that are matched to my rim size in the lowest profile they have. 225 on 8inch rim, 215 on 7inch rim (because oem size), 235 on 9inch rim, etc.

2. I'd set tire pressures at 35 all the way around.

3. I'd write those numbers on my fenders in tire chalk (ask tire guy to give you his old stick)

4. Then I'd run a session with an instructor.

5. When I got back to the pits after my first session, I'd sit there with a stupid expression on my face and ruminate about why I avoided doing this for so long.

6. After I'd done #5 for awhile, I'd look at my tire pressures again. If they were over 40, I'd drop them back to 35.

7. Then I'd forget about them for the rest of the day.

 

I'd run those tires until they were corded or date expired. They are not awesome tires, however, they have great wear characteristics on the track. When you are fast on them, everything else will be easy. They talk well, stick well enough, and last a long time.

 

Still think you are vastly overthinking this. but whatever.

 

do the track day already...

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1. I'd go down to the Les Schwab and buy a set of ss595's that are matched to my rim size in the lowest profile they have. 225 on 8inch rim, 215 on 7inch rim (because oem size), 235 on 9inch rim, etc.

...

Still think you are vastly overthinking this. but whatever.

 

Ok, ok :-)

 

I am overthinking it mostly because I have time to think about it a bit here and there, but not enough to actually go and work on the car.. I still have a few things to do. And I have another 3-4 weeks before I'll get to the track, since I have a vacation coming up next week.

 

Anyway - just checking: you mean SS-595, not RSR-595 or RSRS-595? Also, I've read they run really wide. But they do have a 245/40-17 which is the "default" size for my 8.5 wheels..

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245 is likely going to rub in the back. You remember when you decided to buy some random wheel? welcome to random problem. A 245 tire will be half an inch closer to the suspension.

 

Federal SS595 245/40/17 section width 9.8 inches on a 8.5 inch rim gives a tread width of 8.6 inches. Leaving .6 inches on each side of bulge. You'll need a bit more psi to keep it up right (38?) but max pressure is 44 so you'll need to keep an eye on it. I'd leave it at 35 (oem pressure) and check it when you get off track. Probably set it for 38 hot.

http://www.federaltire.com/en/products_detail.php?products_detail_sn=8

 

This is a good gauge for will things fit. See attached picture comparing your tire/rim to stock tire/rim. Anything on the inboard size is called rubbing. Anything taller is called "do I need to pull my fenders".

http://www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=215&aspect=45&diameter=17&wheelwidth=7&offset=55&width2=245&aspect2=40&wheel_size=17&wheel_width=8-5&offset2=48

 

You want a tire that isn't very sticky. Because in the beginning, you're learning to drive at speed and watch for other people and how to navigate at speed and how to judge braking into a corner and how to maintain steering control in a corner and how to look further down the track so you don't run into someone/drive off the track and how to position your car for late apex turning and how to use your brakes effectively and how to manage your stress levels so you can finish the whole day. None of those involve "need race slicks and brembos". The more stock your car is, the more you're going to learn how to drive.

 

Bolting on parts doesn't make you fast. Don't believe it? Go find the stock 1.6L Miata driven by the old geezer in a race suit. Now try to follow him/her. Remember, it's 1.6L car with barely 100hp on 205/50/15's. Your car is a beast and should run his ass off the road in 2.3 seconds flat.

215vs245.thumb.jpg.a62b6fadefc7d7400fda6f9301c9368a.jpg

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245 is likely going to rub in the back. You remember when you decided to buy some random wheel? welcome to random problem. A 245 tire will be half an inch closer to the suspension.

 

So, get a 235 instead? Or are these wheels a total non-starter and I should cut my losses and get something else? Thought I got a thumbs up from a couple of people before buying 'em..

 

Bolting on parts doesn't make you fast. Don't believe it? Go find the stock 1.6L Miata driven by the old geezer in a race suit. Now try to follow him/her. Remember, it's 1.6L car with barely 100hp on 205/50/15's. Your car is a beast and should run his ass off the road in 2.3 seconds flat.

 

Did some winter rallying, guy who won consistently was driving an early 80s RWD Corolla or something like that.. Total econobox. Up against WRXs, etc.

 

If I've given the impression that I expect to be anything but the slowest person out there, I've been doing something wrong.. Miata's also more of a momentum car, IIRC, so I doubt my line/brake/accel zones would be anything like his..

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- learning to drive at speed

- watch for other people

- navigate at speed

- judge braking into a corner

- maintain steering control in a corner

- look further down the track

- position your car for late apex turning

- use your brakes effectively

- manage your stress levels

 

The more stock your car is, the more you're going to learn how to drive.

 

THIS, THIS, THIS. The car is a distraction. Make sure your tires are safe, make sure your brakes are safe, make sure your suspension is safe, make sure you have enough oil, and make sure you aren't leaking anything.

 

Then just get out there and put in the seat time. You'll have a blast, no need for overthinking. :)

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THIS, THIS, THIS. The car is a distraction. Make sure your tires are safe, make sure your brakes are safe, make sure your suspension is safe, make sure you have enough oil, and make sure you aren't leaking anything.

 

Then just get out there and put in the seat time. You'll have a blast, no need for overthinking. :)

 

Thanks. AFAICT, MOST of my question have been about exactly those things: safe tires, safe brakes (I've never felt "safe" with OEM brakes with spirited street driving, maybe that's on me), suspension is old, and making sure I'm not leaking anything/engine is ok. Plus mandatory requirements like water + water wetter instead of glycol.

 

As I alluded to earlier - just got a plug in one of my tires, so I NEED to get a second set, unless I turn that one into my spare and put a new tire onto my spare.. Possibly doable, but I'd prefer a second set of tires.

 

I haven't really worried about upgrading the turbo/power, adding camber bolts/arms/spec.b arms, upgrading bushings, adding strut tower bars, catch cans, aero upgrades, brake ducts, etc, etc..

 

which reminds me - should I invest in an extinguisher?

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Extinguisher: generally not. If you are so inclined, trackday insurance may not be a bad idea depending on the track.

 

Tires: if you plan on getting a set of tires, go for a ~300tw summer tire. Michelin Pilot Super Sports are a great choice: great on the street, great in the wet, good wear, good feedback, and you can go quite quickly on them. If you don't get the MPSS, go with whatever tire fits your budget. I see that Continental Extremecontact DW are on sale on tire rack, which is a nice choice for a trackday tire.

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It's more the 110 degree heat at Thunderhill that has me worried....

 

Mazda raceway is looking pretty good.

 

Your tires aren't going to melt. You're not Micheal Schumacher. At 110 degrees, you'll be so damn hot after 20 minutes you'll want to crawl in the shower on icy cold.

 

You want your tires to last? put your brand new tires on, go for a brisk drive on the freeway for 10-15 minutes (no hard braking or turning), you just want them to warm up, then come home, take them off, put them in a cool dry place for 2 days (48 hours) and the colder the better (air conditioned house in the cold section).

 

When you goto the track, put them on. They'll last longer. Works better with race tires, but still works on high performance tires.

 

Michelin Super Sports are a great tire for track days, as well as road driving. I never got my warranty miles, but they were damn fun.

 

Buying a bleeding edge autox tire to drive on the track is just plain stupid. If you have that much money, buy a set of slicks. You'll be much happier and they'll last alot longer.

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Thanks. AFAICT, MOST of my question have been about exactly those things: safe tires, safe brakes (I've never felt "safe" with OEM brakes with spirited street driving, maybe that's on me), suspension is old, and making sure I'm not leaking anything/engine is ok. Plus mandatory requirements like water + water wetter instead of glycol.

 

As I alluded to earlier - just got a plug in one of my tires, so I NEED to get a second set, unless I turn that one into my spare and put a new tire onto my spare.. Possibly doable, but I'd prefer a second set of tires.

 

I haven't really worried about upgrading the turbo/power, adding camber bolts/arms/spec.b arms, upgrading bushings, adding strut tower bars, catch cans, aero upgrades, brake ducts, etc, etc..

 

which reminds me - should I invest in an extinguisher?

 

If you catch fire on the track, drive to the nearest manned turn station, turn on your flashers, turn off your car (leave keys in it), get out and run away. Preferably away from the car and the track.

Unless you are trained to put out a car fire, just let it burn.

 

If you're that worried, get track insurance. It'll buy you a new car or at least write you a check for a replacement. Be sure to list all the upgrades from OEM. Expect to pay $1000 or so. Cheap insurance if you're worried. If you borrow some one else's car, just buy the insurance.

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So, get a 235 instead? Or are these wheels a total non-starter and I should cut my losses and get something else? Thought I got a thumbs up from a couple of people before buying 'em..

 

 

 

Did some winter rallying, guy who won consistently was driving an early 80s RWD Corolla or something like that.. Total econobox. Up against WRXs, etc.

 

If I've given the impression that I expect to be anything but the slowest person out there, I've been doing something wrong.. Miata's also more of a momentum car, IIRC, so I doubt my line/brake/accel zones would be anything like his..

 

You didn't get a thumbs up from me. The thumbs up came from ppl who don't track drive. You're on your own there.

 

For the wheels you have, buy these tires https://simpletire.com/toyo-235-40zr17-170090-tires . Stupid cheap but really good tires. Do the 10 minutes warm up and the 2 day cold storage and they will last a long time. Only use them on the track (not driving to the track, only at the track).

 

And the momentum part, you're an idiot. Unless you have enough torque to lay rubber mid-turn, you have a momentum car. Your wagon is definitely a momentum car. If you don't believe me, find the big sweeper, go in slow, at the apex mat the throttle, wait for the boost to come on. If your car wasn't a momentum car, you'd spin off the track.

 

If you're not reading these books, https://speedsecrets.com/ , you're missing out on valuable advice from a coach who knows which pedal to use. 90% mental, 10% everything else. 96 posts in, you're still on the 10% everything else.

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