Wow! These are inexpensive cars to repair.

[sunny5280]

Over the weekend my Outback experienced a cooling system issue. Took off from a stop light and smelled some coolant. When I pulled into the parking lot and stopped the vehicle a plume of smoke radiated from underneath the hood. A sight to see as it looked as if the car was on fire.

 

Took it to the mechanic yesterday where the diagnosis was a hole in the upper radiator hose (typical of a hose with, I assume, 146K miles on it). Repair was $160 for the upper and lower hoses. While he was in there I had him replace a leaking valve cover gasket, the oil filler tube, and perform an oil change.

 

Total cost: $460. I was shocked. As a BMW owner $460 may have been the cost of replacing just the VG gasket. I bought the Outback for a number of different reasons...low operating / maintenance / repair costs being one (but not primary). It still amazes me how inexpensive this vehicle is to maintain / repair compared to my BMW (not complaining about the cost of the BMW, just surprised at the significant difference).

 

I know there are people here who would have DIY for probably 1/4 the cost but I do not have the time or place to do this kind of work. Just thought I would share a very favorable experience with those on the forum and for those who may be considering the purchase of a gen 4 Outback.

[Gigs]

Parts cost is considerably less , $30 for oem hoses vs BMW prices

[Max Capacity]

The spare top radiator hose I keep the shed was like $11.00 at NAPA.

 

At the age of your car, there are a few things you might want to replace before something happens at a bad time.

[Dishwasher]

Some things are. There are a couple things that are prone to failure that are not inexpensive to repair. Max is right, there are preventative things you can do to prevent the big ticket items from happening (or at least extend the life of your motor).

 

-Banjo bolt removal (saves turbo)

-Replace up pipe with non catted up pipe (STI or aftermarket, also saves turbo)

-Aftermarket tune (even stage 1)

-Zip tie vacuum lines, and or install brass barbed T fitting for the blue T under the intercooler (Vacuum leaks cause detonation)

-OEM intercooler reinforcement (Search for Bar Man Bean Kit)

-Inspect and likely replace OEM inlet tube with new OEM or aftermarket as they are prone to failure

-Check your oil regularly

 

Do those and you should have a happy car for a long time. None of that stuff is particularly expensive or difficult to DIY with simple hand tools with the exception of the Tune.

[sunny5280]

Some things are. There are a couple things that are prone to failure that are not inexpensive to repair. Max is right, there are preventative things you can do to prevent the big ticket items from happening (or at least extend the life of your motor).

 

-Banjo bolt removal (saves turbo)

-Replace up pipe with non catted up pipe (STI or aftermarket, also saves turbo)

-Aftermarket tune (even stage 1)

-Zip tie vacuum lines, and or install brass barbed T fitting for the blue T under the intercooler (Vacuum leaks cause detonation)

-OEM intercooler reinforcement (Search for Bar Man Bean Kit)

-Inspect and likely replace OEM inlet tube with new OEM or aftermarket as they are prone to failure

-Check your oil regularly

 

Do those and you should have a happy car for a long time. None of that stuff is particularly expensive or difficult to DIY with simple hand tools with the exception of the Tune.

In a few thousand miles I'll be taking it in for the 150K mile service. I did speak to my mechanic about some other things which I may want to consider replacing. He did not have anything to suggest.

 

Banjo bolt filters were removed when I first bought the car. As for the other things, save for oils changes (which I had done yesterday while in there and ever 3K miles) I don't know if I want to undertake them. I've been considering the Stage 1 tune but haven't put together a plan when (or if) I want to do it.

[sunny5280]

Parts cost is considerably less , $30 for oem hoses vs BMW prices

Mine were $20 and some change on the invoice.

[MTBwrench]

In a few thousand miles I'll be taking it in for the 150K mile service. I did speak to my mechanic about some other things which I may want to consider replacing. He did not have anything to suggest.

 

Banjo bolt filters were removed when I first bought the car. As for the other things, save for oils changes (which I had done yesterday while in there and ever 3K miles) I don't know if I want to undertake them. I've been considering the Stage 1 tune but haven't put together a plan when (or if) I want to do it.

 

You should unquestionably do the stage 1 tune! The reason most of us recommend a different tune is that here in the US, Subaru had to do some funky stuff to make the boxer platform pass emissions. Most notably are "TGV" valves in the intake that create higher velocity airflow to atomize fuel on startup, AIR injection pumps on later models, and most importantly a revised tune(this is the part that matters). Of those three, the only one that's known to have an effect on engine longevity is the tune. Subaru made the ECU run things a tad bit lean when switching from open to closed loop under boost, and it almost always leads to burnt exhaust valves. If you do some research, you'll notice that many turbo 2.5's with burnt valves were run on the stock tune to a very high mileage. I haven't torn down many, but I still have yet to dismantle a turbo engine that was on the stock tune for more than 180,000 miles that had not burnt a valve or destroyed a valve seat.

 

If you're concerned about up-rating your Outback's output by getting a stage 1 tune, then I recommend you go to a pro-tuner and tell them exactly what you want. They would be happy to keep boost low and maintain near stock power levels, whilst revising timing and fuel for a safer burn. For example, I have done a bit of work to mine(most notably a bigger WRX turbo), and it made baout 300hp/320tq at the wheels. I specifically told my tuner I wanted something that was 100% safe and reliable and that I was more than okay with leaving power on the table(especially due to my 200,000+ mile trans). In light of that, we turned down the boost, and made a much safer 266hp/255tq.

 

I suppose the moral of what I'm trying to say here is that getting a tune is 100% okay, and will be better for your engine in the long run, dependent upon what you specifically ask for.

[Dishwasher]

MTB Wrench is spot on, the stock tune causes cylinders 2 and 4 to run lean occasionally, which many say is the cause of frequent ringland failure. Mike at Tuning Alliance is on the forums and can give you a better explanation of why tuning is important on these engines. His tunes and customer support have been excellent.

 

Replacing the up pipe is pretty important as well. The 05-06 LGT and Outback came with a catted up pipe that was prone to failure. In 07 they stopped placing catted up pipes in these cars. Pieces of the cat would travel through the turbo, which would grenade the turbo and ruin the shortblock. A replacement up pipe is $100-$200, which is cheap insurance to prevent that from happening. You can have your mechanic install it and check the turbo for shaft play at the same time which is a good indicator of the health of your turbo.

 

Ziptie the vacuum lines, it's essentially free, and can save some CELs and headaches later.

[MilesA]

...Replacing the up pipe is pretty important as well. The 05-06 LGT and Outback came with a catted up pipe that was prone to failure. In 07 they stopped placing catted up pipes in these cars. Pieces of the cat would travel through the turbo, which would grenade the turbo and ruin the shortblock. A replacement up pipe is $100-$200, which is cheap insurance to prevent that from happening...

I bought an OEM uppipe from a 2009 Legacy GT for under $70. IMHO, this is a better way to go than an aftermarket uppipe. It looks stock, so no hassles if your state does inspections. Fit is perfect, has a built-in flex section and good heat shields. The one I bought was in great shape, having been taken off by someone who went aftermarket.

 

I should point out the uppipe cat I took off looked to be in perfect shape, made of metal, not ceramic. It made me wonder if the concern about having the cat break apart and damage things downstream was exaggerated.

 

Installing the uppipe was a PITA, though. So many things were in the way and had to be removed to get access. Not much room to work. Glad that's done.

[sunny5280]

Thanks for the stage one recommendation. I am aware of the lean condition and I've investigated obtaining a stage one tune. It appears it will cost approximately $500 and the best option (since that's all I would be purchasing it for) would be the Access Port. I did receive pricing from one of the board members but haven't pulled the trigger on it.

[relative4]

Market value of an APv2 is $200. Make sure it's been unmarried from the previous car.

 

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[sunny5280]

Market value of an APv2 is $200. Make sure it's been unmarried from the previous car.

I researched APv2's and unmarried one's and asking prices appear to be slightly less than new APv3's. To the point I gave up on used APv2's in favor of the APv3. Perhaps they've come down since I last checked.

[Infosecdad]

I don't think APv3's work for '05s... Only APv2 does. The version numbers aren't just upgrades, they are for different groups of cars. Cobb only lists 07-09 Outback XT for v3.

 

http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/accessport/subaru-accessport-v3-ap3-sub-003/

 

Edit: SUB-002 V3 is good, I was crossing the application number and version, thanks for the help MTBwrench

[MTBwrench]

I researched APv2's and unmarried one's and asking prices appear to be slightly less than new APv3's. To the point I gave up on used APv2's in favor of the APv3. Perhaps they've come down since I last checked.

 

Don't bother with an AccessPORT V2. The internal hardware is less capable than that of the V3, meaning lower logging frequency and slower flash times etc. Not to mention, I'd be surprised if COBB is even still supporting the V2, now that the V3 has been out for so long. This is one of those cases where the V3 is better in every way. Most notably, it can display up to six realtime ECU parameters at once. Many of us have them mounted semi-permanently in the car somewhere, and keep all the vital stuff on the live gauges. But, there are also many of us who don't bother with that as well.

 

I don't think APv3's work for '05s... Only APv2 does. The version numbers aren't just upgrades, they are for different groups of cars. Cobb only lists 07-09 Outback XT for v3.

 

http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/accessport/subaru-accessport-v3-ap3-sub-003/

 

This is incorrect. There are two components to every AccessPORT part number. The version(APV1, APV2, APV3), and the application (SUB-001, SUB-002, MAZ, etc.). You're thinking of the application, and you're right in that respect. A V3 "SUB-003" AccessPORT is not compatible with a 2005 OBXT, whilst the "SUB-002" version is.

[sunny5280]

Don't bother with an AccessPORT V2. The internal hardware is less capable than that of the V3, meaning lower logging frequency and slower flash times etc. Not to mention, I'd be surprised if COBB is even still supporting the V2, now that the V3 has been out for so long. This is one of those cases where the V3 is better in every way. Most notably, it can display up to six realtime ECU parameters at once. Many of us have them mounted semi-permanently in the car somewhere, and keep all the vital stuff on the live gauges. But, there are also many of us who don't bother with that as well.

I'm not really interested in any monitoring or performance changes. The only reason I'm considering one is to address the lean mixture issue which has been raised. If it means programming it once, taking a little longer than a v3, I'm fine with that. However if the v3 is comparable in price to a v2 then I would definitely choose the v3.

 

 

This is incorrect. There are two components to every AccessPORT part number. The version(APV1, APV2, APV3), and the application (SUB-001, SUB-002, MAZ, etc.). You're thinking of the application, and you're right in that respect. A V3 "SUB-003" AccessPORT is not compatible with a 2005 OBXT, whilst the "SUB-002" version is.

While doing my research on used APs I did discover one has to be very careful to understand which one is being offered. I almost pulled the trigger on one until I looked into it further.

 

For a guy like me who wants to just load a stage one map to eliminate the lean condition issue these things are quite expensive...even used ones.

[Rhitter]

You can also get this done with an OpenSource tune and don't even need an AccessPort. Cryotune is in Denver and does an excellent job (I have had three e-tunes done with him) I would contact him and ask what your options are.

 

http://www.cryotuneperformance.com/

[Mike07LGT]

I'm not really interested in any monitoring or performance changes. The only reason I'm considering one is to address the lean mixture issue which has been raised. If it means programming it once, taking a little longer than a v3, I'm fine with that. However if the v3 is comparable in price to a v2 then I would definitely choose the v3.

 

 

 

While doing my research on used APs I did discover one has to be very careful to understand which one is being offered. I almost pulled the trigger on one until I looked into it further.

 

For a guy like me who wants to just load a stage one map to eliminate the lean condition issue these things are quite expensive...even used ones.

 

They are pricey but well worth the investment. For how easy it is to use and what you get from it, as well as the potential for troubleshooting and future tuning options, the accessport is your best bang for the buck. Built in guages and monitoring on a nice clean simple screen. Invest in one you wont regret it

[sunny5280]

I checked Ebay for a used v2 Access Port and the only one which works with my model Outback has an asking price of $450. At that price I may as well go with a new v3 model for $150 more.

[sunny5280]

You can also get this done with an OpenSource tune and don't even need an AccessPort. Cryotune is in Denver and does an excellent job (I have had three e-tunes done with him) I would contact him and ask what your options are.

 

http://www.cryotuneperformance.com/

 

I did investigate open source solutions and by the time I assembled everything I decided an AP would be slightly more money and a whole lot easier. For someone like me the open source solutions look to be a non-starter (and I say this as a computer guy).

[Rhitter]

If you aren't interested in monitoring then there is no real reason to buy an AP.

 

If you go with a shop that does OpenSource Dyno tuning they have the hardware (Tactrix), you just show up get your dyno tune and drive away.

 

Of course, that only apples to dyno tunes. If you are e-tuning, I can see why you wouldn't want to mess with OS. Although, as a computer guy by hobby, OS is pretty easy.

 

However, my main point was Cryotune is in Denver and is awesome.

[covertrussian]

I was in the same boat as you for a while, I wanted to increase the reliability of the tune but without adding power. I built a stage 0 safety tune for my 05 LGT, your tune is going be very similar to mine so I can build you one in 5 minutes for your car (pro bono).

 

Details of this stage 0 tune can be found here:

Closed Loop delay disable

Timing Compensation on cylinders 2 and 4 disabling

 

You can download the 05 LGT basemap here:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=10939

 

Once you have the tune you can flash it with a $170ish Tactrix V2 cable which is guaranteed to work, the cheap VAG-Com cables you find on ebay usually have wrong chips and wont work. Which is why it's hard to recommend them despite their low price.

 

After you have the cable and software you can easily flash a new tune yourself.

[Merc6]

...I bought an OEM uppipe from a 2009 Legacy GT for under $70. IMHO, this is a better way to go than an aftermarket uppipe. It looks stock, so no hassles if your state does inspections...

 

I wasn't as lucky, I guess the guy here really knew his Subarus. End result is I couldn't register my car in this state. The upside to that is I haven't done a single emissions item on the car (when it ran) and the Tint laws don't apply to me. YMMV on what I did to get by.

 

...Fit is perfect, has a built-in flex section and good heat shields. The one I bought was in great shape, having been taken off by someone who went aftermarket...

 

Yes, inspect the heat shield. My shield broke at the welds up top and rattled for the last year or so before the engine was pulled for unrelated issues.

 

 

End of the day you are better off taking that chance and swapping the up pipe vs leaving it as is and being a victim to making an impromptu build thread like the rest of us.

[MilesA]

End of the day you are better off taking that chance and swapping the up pipe vs leaving it as is and being a victim to making an impromptu build thread like the rest of us.

That was my reasoning, basically cheap insurance. I guess I was lucky on finding an OEM replacement that passed for stock (big, bold SUBARU logo pressed into the heat shield may have helped). Sorry you were unlucky with the inspector.

[sunny5280]

I was in the same boat as you for a while, I wanted to increase the reliability of the tune but without adding power. I built a stage 0 safety tune for my 05 LGT, your tune is going be very similar to mine so I can build you one in 5 minutes for your car (pro bono).

 

Details of this stage 0 tune can be found here:

Closed Loop delay disable

Timing Compensation on cylinders 2 and 4 disabling

 

You can download the 05 LGT basemap here:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=10939

 

Once you have the tune you can flash it with a $170ish Tactrix V2 cable which is guaranteed to work, the cheap VAG-Com cables you find on ebay usually have wrong chips and wont work. Which is why it's hard to recommend them despite their low price.

 

After you have the cable and software you can easily flash a new tune yourself.

Thank you for the very generous offer. I'll have to see about getting the parts together so I can take you up on it. I'd definitely be going with the Tactrix cable as my research revealed it was the best choice.

[Merc6]

That was my reasoning, basically cheap insurance. I guess I was lucky on finding an OEM replacement that passed for stock (big, bold SUBARU logo pressed into the heat shield may have helped). Sorry you were unlucky with the inspector.

 

Yeah I felt the same about it being an OEM part but he was adamant that 05 has to have it no matter what. W/E VA just sends me stickers and said I don't need to do emissions or safety unless I drive back into the state or garage it in a VA address.