What to do...

[sunny5280]

I have a 2005 XT with 146K miles on the clock. Car is running fine except for the normal amount of oil consumption (about 1 quart every 1K miles). Earlier in the year I posted here about this amount of consumption and the response was it's pretty much normal for these cars at this mileage. I also spoke with my mechanic about it and he said the oil consumption is likely the result of the oil passing by the rings (again pretty much standard for these cars at this mileage).

 

I love the car and adding a quart of oil isn't a big deal. However I was thinking maybe I should consider having the engine rebuilt or a rebuilt engine installed. As I do not have the skill, space, or time I would have to pay someone to do this work for me. Resulting in a few thousands of dollars in cost. Given the expense I'm wondering if it's something I should consider or just drive it.

 

I want to be clear there is nothing wrong with the car and it doesn't need any work. This would be something I would do as sort of a proactive move. Eventually (thinking more long term than short) the engine is going to need work and then I have a decision to make. As Subaru no longer offers a turbo charged Outback (and the new one's are much larger physically) I'd have to make the decision to fix or replace. At that point fixing may not be worth the money (not like this would save me money now).

 

What are people's thoughts on proactively replacing the engine. It would have the benefit of addressing the increased oil consumption and hopefully put off major engine work for a long time to come. But then there's nothing wrong with it and no indication anything is about to break. It's purely a "proactive" kind of move. Unlikely to be a smart move financially but I do love the car and would like to keep it around.

[xtea]

Zero point to it if you are stock. You wont see it back in resale. Preventitive maintenece is in part to prevent engine failure so you dont have to replace the engine. So why replace it before it fails? Whats the point?

[relative4]

With continued proper maintenance, there is no reason you won't see another 100K happy miles from that engine. The consumption is normal and requires replenishment but not worry. Think of it like gas but more important. No reason to think about a rebuild at this time.

 

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[MilesA]

I think it's too soon. Think about a rebuild when the engine can't pass a compression test.

 

I like to keep my cars a long time, also. But, you could be unlucky, have an accident and total the car a few months from now. In which case, you might as well have thrown your cash in a bonfire.

[sunny5280]

Thanks for the feedback guys. It appears the general consensus is the engine will hold out for many, many more miles (if cared for) thus there's no need to do anything.

 

xtea: I realize I would never make the money back on resale. In fact the whole idea of what I proposed would never have any kind of positive ROI. I never expected this to be a financially sound idea

[sunny5280]

I'm reviving this question due to some comments which appeared in the Maybe the start of something bad (of course this is about oil consumption) thread. Specifically the comments stating oil consumption of 1 quart every 1K miles is excessive. Previous feed back in this discussion and the Another P0021 Code discussion led me to believe such consumption is not uncommon with these cars with higher mileage.

 

This past Friday evening when I was out I was accelerating hard from a stop light and noticed so smoke showing in the headlights of the vehicle directly behind me. I suspect this smoke was oil blow by suggesting worn rings. I've never seen this blow by before and I suspect it is only visible under hard acceleration. At least for the time being.

 

I'd like to again ask for the forums thoughts on what my next steps should be. I think I'll schedule an appointment with my mechanic to have him give me some suggestions. Car is running great otherwise.

[relative4]

Compression test will identify bad rings. If you have good rings and blue smoke, check the PCV valve. If that's not the issue, you may have a dying turbocharger, which is of course much more serious.

 

PCV is cheap and relatively easy, I'd start with that.

[JustCallMeNick]

The new Outbacks look like an older Outback had an allergic reaction to some seafood.

 

That's a lot of oil, friend... I'm not expert though. My 2009 LGT has 132,000 miles on it and only uses a little bit of oil. I bought it only a few thousand miles ago and don't know its history really. I was actually pleasantly surprised. My 2002 Legacy and 1991 Toyota Tercel used tons of oil.

[sunny5280]

It was a concern of mine too when I first discovered how much it was consuming. However, feedback I received stated it was acceptable and even within Subaru specifications. I'm going to schedule an appointment with my indy to have him perform a compression test per the advice of relative4. That should give me an idea of what the next steps might be.

 

As for the turbo it was replaced prior to my acquiring the car. Along with a lot of other work. However, reading through these threads a new turbo doesn't appear to be a good thing in many cases. Wish I'd have known to ask about it prior to buying the car. But, in all fairness, the vehicle has been great for the past 20K miles I've driven it. Has had a few items that needed repair along the way but that's to be expected at this age.

 

If it needs engine work (or a replacement) I'm fine with that but if it's going to run into the thousands of dollars, which I expect an engine replacement will, I'll have to weigh whether it's worth it to go that route or replace the car with another one / some other car (might go the electric car route). If I buy another Outback XT it will be an unknown whereas this will be known to me. Here in CO Outbacks hold their value well so it's likely engine work would be the least costly option plus I know the vehicle.

[landcrush]

I know our said you don't plan on doing the work yourself but if you have pretty basic tools and better yet someone with a garage, you can rent most parts and do a tear down yourself.

Not saying you need to rebuild- get a compression test- but in the event you do, you would technically only need to get new rings or a set of pistons.

Without getting too deep into the motor which isn't needed if you're staying stock-

you can save many thousands of dollars doing the work yourself.

 

I'm in the middle of a complete rebuild and it was daunting but there is plenty of info on the net and in the FSM to get it done.

Plus everyone and their brother with a turbo Subaru seems to have blown em up or atleast rebuilt one. Lots of literature out there

[sunny5280]

I know our said you don't plan on doing the work yourself but if you have pretty basic tools and better yet someone with a garage, you can rent most parts and do a tear down yourself.

Not saying you need to rebuild- get a compression test- but in the event you do, you would technically only need to get new rings or a set of pistons.

Without getting too deep into the motor which isn't needed if you're staying stock-

you can save many thousands of dollars doing the work yourself.

 

I'm in the middle of a complete rebuild and it was daunting but there is plenty of info on the net and in the FSM to get it done.

Plus everyone and their brother with a turbo Subaru seems to have blown em up or atleast rebuilt one. Lots of literature out there

I'm familiar with engines and how the operate, how to work on them, etc. But I've never undertaken a project like this (tearing down a 2-stroke CR500 doesn't even come close!) Unfortunately I do not have a garage which I can perform the work in nor do I have the time. I'd love to do it and maybe will once I retire. For now I've got to hand this task over to someone else. Fortunately the cost won't be a hardship for me.

[LatentWagen]

I'm reviving this question due to some comments which appeared in the Maybe the start of something bad (of course this is about oil consumption) thread. Specifically the comments stating oil consumption of 1 quart every 1K miles is excessive.

 

It's been said before and I'll say it again, 1qt/k is perfectly fine. Blow-by is a fact of life on high mileage or built-motor turbo-charged cars. Oil will be consumed, more if you see a lot of boost. Which leads us to...

 

This past Friday evening when I was out I was accelerating hard from a stop light and noticed so smoke showing in the headlights of the vehicle directly behind me. I suspect this smoke was oil blow by suggesting worn rings. I've never seen this blow by before and I suspect it is only visible under hard acceleration. At least for the time being.

 

Accelerating hard from stop lights is never a wise move, if you care about the longevity of your engine. While waiting at the light you've been heatsoaking your intercooler. WOT with no airflow and a cooked TMIC is a recipe for knock.

 

But let's be honest, you likely weren't just "accelerating hard"... to notice blow-by in headlights in your mirror, that car has to be close, and close for an extended period of time at WOT. Sounds more like a race. At least tell us what you were racing and who won

 

And be safe out there!

 

Car is running great otherwise.

 

When ^ this ^ changes, start worrying. But that doesn't mean you can street race all the Civics in your neighborhood. Either way, as the owner of a turbo Subaru, it's never a bad idea to have a piggybank on the side for a rainy-day/motor build.

[apexi]

If your car is drinking oil like that of course you will see some smoke out your exhaust when you accelerate hard. My car consumes between 1qt - 2qt every 5k, and I can see smoke out my exhaust if I accelerate hard or shift hard too. No way I would rebuild yet.

[LatentWagen]

Seeing "smoke" from the exhaust is bad. Seeing a little fuel and blow-by is normal. Most visible in a nighttime + headlights direct-chase view, like the OP describes.

[apexi]

I think this is a bit subjective depending on who you ask, and how technical they are when it comes to cars.

 

When I shift hard, or accelerate hard, I can see what looks like a quick puff/cloud/smoke/haze when I look in my rear view mirror.

 

If the technical name for that smoke is blowby, that's sort of a new term for me. I understand what blowby is, but when I see it in my rear view mirror i just refer to it as smoke. When I think of smoke, I don't necessarily think of big thick clouds of smoke, just smoke, could be a little bit or a lot. To me the word "smoke" by itself does not imply a lot.

[LatentWagen]

It's tough to see/smell/compare over the internet, without video at least. Haze is a good way to describe it, probably a little bit of fuel and blowby, and likely fine if the car is running well otherwise.

 

Once followed a >500WHP EVO at WOT and needed to use my windshield wipers because of the blow-by

[sunny5280]

Accelerating hard from stop lights is never a wise move, if you care about the longevity of your engine. While waiting at the light you've been heatsoaking your intercooler. WOT with no airflow and a cooked TMIC is a recipe for knock.

 

But let's be honest, you likely weren't just "accelerating hard"... to notice blow-by in headlights in your mirror, that car has to be close, and close for an extended period of time at WOT. Sounds more like a race. At least tell us what you were racing and who won

 

And be safe out there!

I love this forum! There are so many great people here. No, I was not racing anyone. Just anxious to meet a woman for a date

 

When ^ this ^ changes, start worrying. But that doesn't mean you can street race all the Civics in your neighborhood. Either way, as the owner of a turbo Subaru, it's never a bad idea to have a piggybank on the side for a rainy-day/motor build.

This is not a money thing. It's about trying to determine if I should spend the money or not. If there's an issue with the engine I'm fine with getting it fixed. However I don't want to needlessly spend money either.

 

Now for a confession...last weekend I was considering the purchase of a new vehicle. A Chevy Volt (I know, I know, please forgive me and let me repent my sin). My driving habits match up great for a vehicle like the Volt. But I love my Subaru and I decided to stick with it because it is such a great car and there was nothing wrong with the Subaru. However the sight of smoke this Friday evening and the feedback in the thread I referenced made me reconsider the "there's nothing wrong with the Outback".

 

If this is normal and I can continue to pass emissions (car hasn't had a problem thus far but then I don't recall seeing smoke before this past weekend) I'm fine with keeping it and just adding oil. If there's an issue I don't mind spending the money to fix it (within reason). I'm just trying to determine if there's something that needs addressed.

[sunny5280]

I think this is a bit subjective depending on who you ask, and how technical they are when it comes to cars.

 

When I shift hard, or accelerate hard, I can see what looks like a quick puff/cloud/smoke/haze when I look in my rear view mirror.

 

If the technical name for that smoke is blowby, that's sort of a new term for me. I understand what blowby is, but when I see it in my rear view mirror i just refer to it as smoke. When I think of smoke, I don't necessarily think of big thick clouds of smoke, just smoke, could be a little bit or a lot. To me the word "smoke" by itself does not imply a lot.

I'm going to do some hard accelerations over the next few days to see if there's anything I can see. I'm also waiting on a dash cam (with rear view camera) which may capture it (assuming it can be caught on camera). I haven't noticed any real smoke and it didn't look like the guy behind me was choking for air. But then it was at night.

 

This is all confusing but I think a compression check is in order.

[08 LGT]

An engine rebuild costs ~$5000-6000.

 

Adding a quart of oil 4 times a year costs about $40.

 

[JustCallMeNick]

last weekend I was considering the purchase of a new vehicle. A Chevy Volt

Haha! That's funny in itself but it's extra funny to me because when I was selling my 2002 Legacy GT over the summer someone test drove it as a possible winter beater and he told me that he used to have an STI but currently had a Chevy Volt.

 

Seems like such an odd transition but evidently there is something alluring about the Chevy Volt to turbo Subaru owners...

[LatentWagen]

I'm going to do some hard accelerations over the next few days to see if there's anything I can see. I'm also waiting on a dash cam (with rear view camera) which may capture it (assuming it can be caught on camera). I haven't noticed any real smoke and it didn't look like the guy behind me was choking for air. But then it was at night.

 

This is all confusing but I think a compression check is in order.

 

Never a bad idea to do a compression check, change out the PCV, etc. But much more fun to make the

to, uh, check for smoke. Important to listen for it, too

 

For what it's worth, my Legacy (in the video) has 198k on it, and burns at least half a quart per thousand miles. It always has in the 70k+ miles I've owned it. The car sees WOT a few times daily, and consumption is WOT/boost correlated. If I flog the car it eats more oil. Check it when I get gas, sometimes it needs a little tipple, other times no. Keeps decent oil in the car, which is nice. I still change it every 5k with old T6. Compression at 140ish in all 4 cylinders, last I checked.

[sunny5280]

An engine rebuild costs ~$5000-6000.

 

Adding a quart of oil 4 times a year costs about $40.

I'm fine with adding oil however I have to ensure the vehicle passes state emissions. It's not due for another emissions test for another year but I need to be weighing my options in the event it will not. If it's going to require a rebuild / replacement I may as well do it now then later. Of course if it's going to cost $6K I have to give some serious thought as to if I want to spend that much as the cars are selling for $8K - $9K. My mechanic indicated a replacement is likely less expensive than a rebuild.

[sunny5280]

Haha! That's funny in itself but it's extra funny to me because when I was selling my 2002 Legacy GT over the summer someone test drove it as a possible winter beater and he told me that he used to have an STI but currently had a Chevy Volt.

 

Seems like such an odd transition but evidently there is something alluring about the Chevy Volt to turbo Subaru owners...

 

I think the technology of the Volt (and Prius Prime) are cool. Being a technology guy I thought I might give it a try. My daily driving habits would permit me to drive 100% electricity with only rare instances of actually having to use any fuel.

 

Having said that I don't think it's nearly as fun to drive as my Outback XT and it certainly isn't as practical. It was just cool technology. I intended to keep the Subaru along with the Volt. But then I'd have three vehicles and I barely, relatively speaking, drive the two I have now. Without a compelling reason to buy the Volt (other than cool factor) I decided not to pursue it further.

[sunny5280]

Never a bad idea to do a compression check, change out the PCV, etc. But much more fun to make the

to, uh, check for smoke. Important to listen for it, too

 

For what it's worth, my Legacy (in the video) has 198k on it, and burns at least half a quart per thousand miles. It always has in the 70k+ miles I've owned it. The car sees WOT a few times daily, and consumption is WOT/boost correlated. If I flog the car it eats more oil. Check it when I get gas, sometimes it needs a little tipple, other times no. Keeps decent oil in the car, which is nice. I still change it every 5k with old T6. Compression at 140ish in all 4 cylinders, last I checked.

 

I think it would be a wise idea to get it done. Going to head out in a few minutes to grab some lunch and will stop by my mechanic to get an estimate on what he'll charge to perform one.

[sunny5280]

Just got back from speaking to my mechanic. He said a dry / wet compression test will cost approximately $200. I discussed the situation with him and possibilities are rings or valves. He said the dry / wet compression test would be useful for determining if the issue is the rings.

 

However, once the car was warmed up I did some hard acceleration tests (running up to redline) and I was unable to see any visible signs of smoke. Which makes me begin to question what was it I really saw Friday evening. It was dark with light moisture. I doubt it was any splash back from the moisture...I know the difference as I'm used to seeing splash back.

 

So...I'm somewhat back to where I began. The amount of oil being consumed was not a concern of his. He did say it was a little higher than what he would expect but not something he felt was an immediate issue.

 

I think I'm going to continue some hard accelerations over the next week to observe. Maybe get someone to follow me. I'll probably end up having the compression test performed...seems like money well spent.