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new rotella formula?


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Do what you want to do, but we are giving you our expert opinion. This subject has been talked about a hundred times. Do some searching and you will find your answer.
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Do what you want to do, but we are giving you our expert opinion. This subject has been talked about a hundred times. Do some searching and you will find your answer.

 

Huh? Im confused.

05' LGT, ZFD Built 5MT, Stage 2 Cryotune 91/E85, 170,000mi running BRotella T6 and Ecoguard S4615 filters.
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I think I have read somewhere that adding a zinc additive could put the PPM over the limit and too much zinc causes as much mischief as too little. Not knowing what the oil has when you start and then adding the snake oil stuff doesn't seem like a good solution, chemistry is chemistry - things don't always mix well with synthetic oil either unless it was introduced during it's production. I am inclined to keep using the diesel stuff for the time being... I would not start using the 5W30 again. Years ago when Mobil1 was good I used to get 15W50 oil for my Turbo charged car, for summer use anyway.

 

Rumor has it, it's good again. For $50 I'll wait till someone proves it's better than Amsoil SS.

 

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-annual-protection

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not like Mobil 1 where I've seen several blown turbo threads.

 

Aren't most of those from people using M1 5W-30, which quickly shears to a 5W-20 in turbo engines, which eventually clogs the banjo bolt filters.

 

I thought the main reason many of us use #W-40 oils, Rotella specifically, is resistance to shearing. Even if a #W-40 weight oil shears to a 30 weight, it's still good enough for our engines. Most of us aren't doing 10-15K mile OCI.

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Aren't most of those from people using M1 5W-30, which quickly shears to a 5W-20 in turbo engines, which eventually clogs the banjo bolt filters.

 

I thought the main reason many of us use #W-40 oils, Rotella specifically, is resistance to shearing. Even if a #W-40 weight oil shears to a 30 weight, it's still good enough for our engines. Most of us aren't doing 10-15K mile OCI.

 

My dumbase was out here going 0W-30 cause fuel economy! Just look at how that turned out. :lol:

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so what's the verdict to all of this? i've been using T6 5w-40 since getting a new engine about 6k ago. it's all stock. should i switch to the 5w-30 they offer or switch to something like the Euro Motul 0w-30?

It's only been about 15mos. It seem I need to quote myself again.

Originally Posted by HAMMER DOWN http://legacygt.com/forums/skynetim/buttons/viewpost.gif

Want your turbo to last as long as your motor. In short, check you oil level often & top as needed. Use whatever oil & filter that will protect for the OCI's your running. OA's is the only way you know that your oil & filter is up for the challenge. After that IMO no OA's are needed.

To quote; FJuan

Do what you want to do, but we are giving you our expert opinion. This subject has been talked about a hundred times. Do some searching and you will find your answer.

To add to FJuan's quote.

You'll be given good feedback & info, (good or bad) on some oils people use in these motors. Choose one (oil & filter brand) and follow my advice in my quote above.

Different driving styles & environments, but different demands on the engine's oil & filtration system.

Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold

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Noticed you have a PZEV and I assume you use T6 in it - do you have emissions testing?

 

I have one PZEV and two... sort of three GT's - I do not use T6 in the Normally Aspirated Legacy. That gets the Castrol 5W30 and a 7500 mile OCI

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ALL GF-5 oils have reduced Zinc and Phosphorus, that's what the GF-5 certification means! Stay away from any oil with the GF-5 cert.

 

I use:

Mobil 1 FS 0W40. (Formerly known as Euro Spec). Walmart has it in 5 liter bottle.

 

All the Mobil 1 Specs are here. Take your pick: https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine.

"Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"

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I have had positive results from a used oil analysis using Rotella T6 diesel formula. That doesn't mean that it's a good oil for anyone else's car, only that it's a good oil for my car/driving style. Hammer Down is spot on, keeping oil topped off is the most important thing for these cars. Get a used oil analysis on the new stuff, be the guinea pig. There's no telling how it'll do in these motors from reading the bottle, there's way too many variables.

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So what is the fuss about zinc if the advice is always "Pick whatever oil and top it off"? It seems contradictory to worry about any additives if in the end it doesnt matter what oil you pick.

 

I agree with pretty much everything said here, but if we know that Zinc is good in our engines and that there is one (or a few) oils with higher zinc content - why not just recommend those oils? :confused:

 

Also I spoke with an oil filter annalist that recommended if you run any synthetics then it is best to run the Wix HD filters as they are the only filters with a media that is designed to work with synthetics. Mobil 1 had issues deteriorating filter material and ruining engines.

05' LGT, ZFD Built 5MT, Stage 2 Cryotune 91/E85, 170,000mi running BRotella T6 and Ecoguard S4615 filters.
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That link says that the MV and HD tested the same - I couldnt see how with the SM rating capping the PPM of phosphorus above what the HD tests at. Another forum is saying the new MV has more zinc, but still no VOA sheets of it - just the older HD.

 

Im having trouble figuring out how "Phosphorus" and "Zinc" are different when ZDDP is Zinc dithiophosphate. Is Zinc different from ZDDP?

 

I also have OA kits coming shortly, i may break down and send off some virgin oil to get to the bottom of this...

05' LGT, ZFD Built 5MT, Stage 2 Cryotune 91/E85, 170,000mi running BRotella T6 and Ecoguard S4615 filters.
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So what is the fuss about zinc if the advice is always "Pick whatever oil and top it off"? It seems contradictory to worry about any additives if in the end it doesnt matter what oil you pick.

 

The last part goes with the first part. It doesn't matter what oil you pick, so long as that oil is providing the necessary protection over the course of your OCI.

 

Also I spoke with an oil filter annalist that recommended if you run any synthetics then it is best to run the Wix HD filters as they are the only filters with a media that is designed to work with synthetics. Mobil 1 had issues deteriorating filter material and ruining engines.

 

After doing much research years ago, I only use factory filters personally. Bypass concerns, mostly. I believe Wix came out with a proper-spec'ed filter in the time since my initial research, but not 100% sure on that. As I haven't had any problems with factory, I just keep going that route.

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The last part goes with the first part. It doesn't matter what oil you pick, so long as that oil is providing the necessary protection over the course of your OCI.

 

 

After doing much research years ago, I only use factory filters personally. Bypass concerns, mostly. I believe Wix came out with a proper-spec'ed filter in the time since my initial research, but not 100% sure on that. As I haven't had any problems with factory, I just keep going that route.

 

So essentially you are saying the zinc (or additives) content is (everything else normal) a big part of what determines OCI? More zinc allows for longer OCI? Ive just been bit in the rear going for 'adequate' and try to over protect with the best oil, filter, and short changes.

 

Ive heard about the bypass information too, i wish there was more published about it and i forgot to ask the guy yesterday. Im not a fan of the blue oem. Its fram made, fram quality, and was once recalled. They work, i have one on now, but id feel much better with anything else.

05' LGT, ZFD Built 5MT, Stage 2 Cryotune 91/E85, 170,000mi running BRotella T6 and Ecoguard S4615 filters.
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Mazda RX-8 filters for life!!!

 

Is there a specific filter that Mazda makes for the RX8 or what makes those filters different?

05' LGT, ZFD Built 5MT, Stage 2 Cryotune 91/E85, 170,000mi running BRotella T6 and Ecoguard S4615 filters.
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N3R1-14-302, slightly longer & proper bypass, Tokyo-Roki

 

Gotcha, thanks. Anti drain valve too I assume? Even with it, it looks like I can get the WIX a little cheaper. Im not a JDMAF kind of guy :lol:. But its always good to have and know options. Plus, I really wanted the WIX in a taller configuration, and it loos like the RX-8 filter is the way to get that. And now to send off a UOA...

05' LGT, ZFD Built 5MT, Stage 2 Cryotune 91/E85, 170,000mi running BRotella T6 and Ecoguard S4615 filters.
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Zinc has absolutely no effect (affect?) on oil change interval length.

 

Think of engine oil as being like liquid tums, that also lubricates and prevents metal to metal contact.

 

One of the primary jobs of an oil that most people don't realize is to neutralize acidic byproducts in the oil. That's one of the main reasons you change your oil, these acid neutralizing agents get depleted, so you need fresh oil to start all over again.

 

The way to measure the amount of acid neutralizing agents an oil has is by way of the Total Base Number, or TBN. You can also measure the amount of acidic byproducts present in an oil with the Total Acid Number, or TAN. You don't really want the TAN to ever get higher than TBN, you want the do an oil change before that crossover happens.

 

http://www.spectrosci.com/resource-center/lubrication-analysis/literature/e-guides/guide-to-measuring-tantbn/

 

So one could think ok cool, I'll go with an engine oil that has a nice high TBN so that I can run extended drain intervals.

 

Not so fast. Engine oil is very complex, which is why all this "zinc" talk gets me a little frustrated. The rate at which the TBN of an oil is depleted is not necessarily linear, the TBN retention of an oil could vary.

 

With regard to oil filter bypass valve pressure, here's a lot of reading on the subject. Long story short, I'll only run filters that meet subarus 23psi bypass valve spec in my car. Sure it's ok to run other filters with lower bypass valve specs, I have before, but the problem is that you're going to get unfiltered oil bypassing the filter media.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1410171

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Gotcha, thanks. Anti drain valve too I assume? Even with it, it looks like I can get the WIX a little cheaper. Im not a JDMAF kind of guy :lol:. But its always good to have and know options. Plus, I really wanted the WIX in a taller configuration, and it loos like the RX-8 filter is the way to get that. And now to send off a UOA...

The WIX equivalent filter is also good. Because I'm insanely rich, I get the XP version.

 

SC

1994 Legacy MI

2008 Legacy GT specB

2023 Crosstrek Limited

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That link says that the MV and HD tested the same - I couldnt see how with the SM rating capping the PPM of phosphorus above what the HD tests at. Another forum is saying the new MV has more zinc, but still no VOA sheets of it - just the older HD.

 

If only there was a site where tests on unused motor oils were published...

 

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4238740/

 

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2330040/

 

SC

 

If only someone noticed that those are the 5w-40 and not the 5w-30.

http://rotella.shell.com/products/shell-rotella-t6-multi-vehicle-5w-30-full-synthetic-heavy-duty.html

 

Not to mention supposedly they yet again reformulated the 5w-40 version. The 5w-30 is likely a watered down of the 40 for EPA standards and to get into the "Eco Oil" game. So i'd be curious to see VOA's from the 30 and 40 oil weights this year.

 

BITOG doesnt even have much on the new 5w-30 - I sort of want to do this just so LGT.com would be the first and can use it as click bait! :lol: 2017 T6 VOA's! Are they really wetting your engines whistle? Maybe I should keep my day job...

 

If your post was not directed to me... well then disregard :p Its way past my bedtime but I get to put new brakes on tomorrow so im excited.

05' LGT, ZFD Built 5MT, Stage 2 Cryotune 91/E85, 170,000mi running BRotella T6 and Ecoguard S4615 filters.
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Yes, they are 5W-40.

 

As mentioned previously, one might use -40 because it might shear down to -30 when at operating temperature and pressure.

 

SC

1994 Legacy MI

2008 Legacy GT specB

2023 Crosstrek Limited

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Yes, they are 5W-40.

 

As mentioned previously, one might use -40 because it might shear down to -30 when at operating temperature and pressure.

 

SC

 

Yes. However I am curious about what is in it, not what it might shear down to. I have an insatiable curiosity.

05' LGT, ZFD Built 5MT, Stage 2 Cryotune 91/E85, 170,000mi running BRotella T6 and Ecoguard S4615 filters.
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Spend the money then, but make sure you send in a sample of both.

 

Out of curiosity, are you of the opinion that the -30 and the -40 are that different in terms of their chemical composition for something other than their viscosity?

 

SC

1994 Legacy MI

2008 Legacy GT specB

2023 Crosstrek Limited

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