Andrew's DiySB Rebuild

[StkmltS]

To support what you said here are a few important numbers I just looked up.

 

OEM connecting rod bolts = 38.4 ft-lb [ME(H4DOTC)-10].

OEM block bolts = 7.2 ft-lb, 13.0 ft-lb, 29.5 ft-lb, 18.1 ft-lb, 4.7 ft-lb [ME(H4DOTC)-67 & -68].

Piston service hole plug = 50.6 ft-lb [ME(H4DOTC)-70].

ARP head studs = 90 ft-lb [per ARP's instructions for Subaru 2.0L-2.5L DOHC EJ Series].

OEM head bolts = 21.4 ft-lb, then 51 ft-lb, then -180°, then cry and wish you had ARP studs [ME(H4DOTC)-56].

Oil pan bolts = 3.6 ft-lb [ME(H4DOTC)-72].

Crank pulley bolt = 132.7 ft-lb [ME(H4DOTC)-39].

[seanyb505]

I tried using the 3/8 Advance Auto torque wrench for the Timing cover bolts and broke a bolt. Ran to Harbor freight and grabbed a 1/4 inch pound wrench and finished up.

[StkmltS]

Tear-down starts tonight. I'll make my final budget changes and lock down the final estimate before leaving work today. For bragging rights I'm going to guard the slushy fund pretty hard to try to end up under $4k. It's gonna be tough.

[xt2005bonbon]

Good luck man!! Put a gopro somewhere in your garage and do a time-lapse .

[StkmltS]

Good luck man!! Put a gopro somewhere in your garage and do a time-lapse .

I've been thinking about doing that just so I'd have something to refer back to if/when I get confused about what goes where. It may be worth doing just for the entertainment value. I have an old fairly-decent digital camera laying around somewhere that I can use if the battery still holds a charge. My wife never uses her tripod so I could set up the camera and leave it there for the entire project.

 

Your rotors are boxed up and waiting for me to get off my butt and drop them off at UPS. I have an amazon return to drop off too so it may happen this week

[xt2005bonbon]

I've been thinking about doing that just so I'd have something to refer back to if/when I get confused about what goes where. It may be worth doing just for the entertainment value. I have an old fairly-decent digital camera laying around somewhere that I can use if the battery still holds a charge. My wife never uses her tripod so I could set up the camera and leave it there for the entire project.

 

Your rotors are boxed up and waiting for me to get off my butt and drop them off at UPS. I have an amazon return to drop off too so it may happen this week

 

No worries man. I know you're more excited/anxious to work on your engine than going to UPS!

[Tehnation]

Awesome post! Love the detail!

 

But

 

::devil takes over::

 

Why go through all the trouble for stock parts/rebuild? I can't see how its more cost efficient to rebuild to stock specs for 4k, when a new shortblock is like $1700, shipped to your home. Add another $400 to rebuild heads, $200 for master gasket set and your at $2300-$2400. $1600 under your 4k.

 

Is the cost of whatever's left that you would need exceed $1600?

 

If your pulling the block apart..... might as well make a couple improvements!!

[StkmltS]

Awesome post! Love the detail!

 

But

 

::devil takes over::

 

Why go through all the trouble for stock parts/rebuild? I can't see how its more cost efficient to rebuild to stock specs for 4k, when a new shortblock is like $1700, shipped to your home. Add another $400 to rebuild heads, $200 for master gasket set and your at $2300-$2400. $1600 under your 4k.

 

Is the cost of whatever's left that you would need exceed $1600?

 

If your pulling the block apart..... might as well make a couple improvements!!

Your math is correct, but many people leave out a bunch of other stuff that they still end up still having to buy. If I were paying a machine shop to rebuild the SB and heads, you're 100% correct, it would be cheaper to just buy a new SB. My guess is that most people never add everything up and know for certain exactly how much their rebuild actually cost

 

My roughly $4k estimate includes the things you mentioned plus all of the nickle-and-dime stuff I'd also need... four changes of oil and filters, coolant, exhaust gaskets, new hoses almost everywhere, new head studs/bolts, spark plugs, and some shiny new nuts and bolts because I haven't spent enough money already. AND I get some fun new toys tools: a UV flashlight, machinists straightedge, micrometers, bore gauge, an air compressor, and an impact wrench & sockets. Even this fun stuff is included in my $4k estimate.

 

My goal is to have a car that lasts a long time. Many people say that but end up caving in and adding things that compromise long-term reliability.

To contradict myself there are a few improvements I've decided to do: port-match the heads, the TMIC bulletproof mod, a wbo2 sensor/controller, an oil pressure sender, new shifter bushings, exhaust wrap, a catless UP, and ARP studs. My rebuilt motor will be better than new, even if a dyno doesn't say it's more powerful.

Edited June 20, 2016 by StkmltS

[Nightmaresmk]

Yeah unfortunately your missing pieces. Like new oil pump and oil cooler if you lost a bearing or want to have new parts and those two are 350 combined. plus ARP head studs $200. That's just basic then add a tune to keep it healthy ect ect.

My Build is right around 4k including machine work on the heads.

[StkmltS]

Yeah unfortunately your missing pieces. Like new oil pump and oil cooler if you lost a bearing or want to have new parts and those two are 350 combined. plus ARP head studs $200. That's just basic then add a tune to keep it healthy ect ect.

My Build is right around 4k including machine work on the heads.

 

ARP studs are included in my total and I'm doing the mild tuning myself. I'm reusing the oil pump and cooler because my bearings and turbo are fine. Obviously that's pending tear-down and inspection, but right now I have no reason to believe they're bad.

[Tehnation]

I'm right there with you, i'm in the middle of rebuilding my block as well, i just pulled my engine out. Track season started so my machinist is pretty much booked solid for several months.

 

You will need new pistons/rings, hone, possibly bore block if out of round or any scoring, clean and deck the block, new crank bearings, new rod bearings, linish the crankshaft or possibly replace if out of round or scored, possibly bore out crank mains.

 

I guess everything depends on the shape of your block, especially the crankshaft and cylinder walls. If those are fubar then new sb is way to go. Ideal situation is what you need, lets all pray!

[StkmltS]

I'm banking on everything looking good once I crack it open. If it needs more than a light hone then the plan is to order a new SB and take the boring route

[Tehnation]

Do you plan on doin all the machine work as well? If thats the case then it all makes sense. Some things need to be done in the right environment. When you use bore gauges and micrometers, you need to do so in a room that is at constant ideal temperature.

[Tehnation]

I'm banking on everything looking good once I crack it open. If it needs more than a light hone then the plan is to order a new SB and take the boring route

 

I think even with paying to bore the block, it would be cheaper rebuilding yourself. The crankshaft is the killer!

[Nightmaresmk]

I cheated i am getting a rebuilt short block with king bearings and mahle pistons. I did the oil pump for the 11mm due to running thicker oil for forged pistons.

[StkmltS]

Do you plan on doin all the machine work as well? If thats the case then it all makes sense. Some things need to be done in the right environment. When you use bore gauges and micrometers, you need to do so in a room that is at constant ideal temperature.

 

Yep, I'm doing 100% of everything. All critical inspections will take place in my basement after the parts sit for a few days in the cool. The temperature is very stable and fairly close to what the FSM specifies. We always have a dehumidifier running down there so the humidity is constant also.

[Tehnation]

I'm going with manley 2618 turbo tuff piston and rods, I went with the 11mm pump as well.

[BarManBean]

I have a great condition oil cooler if you decide you're interested. I grabbed it from underdog a while back and it has sat on a shelf. IIRC he installed it but never ran it.

[StkmltS]

I'm going with manley 2618 turbo tuff piston and rods, I went with the 11mm pump as well.

Those are the pistons I had on my list until I decided to use OEM instead. I'd rather not worry about piston slap and needing to warm up the car before driving. But that's a separate discussion that's already been had 948 times in just as many threads.

 

I have a great condition oil cooler if you decide you're interested. I grabbed it from underdog a while back and it has sat on a shelf. IIRC he installed it but never ran it.

Noted in my spreadsheet:)

Edited June 20, 2016 by StkmltS

[Tehnation]

I'd also get a digital temperature gauge for your work table/bench. I have one just to keep me sane, I always look before I do any measurements to make sure everything stays constant, for 20-30 bucks, its worth every penny!! You'd be surprised what a couple degrees will do to readings!

[StkmltS]

I'd also get a digital temperature gauge for your work table/bench. I have one just to keep me sane, I always look before I do any measurements to make sure everything stays constant, for 20-30 bucks, its worth every penny!! You'd be surprised what a couple degrees will do to readings!

 

I actually just ordered one this morning for that exact reason. It was only $14 and it comes with an outdoor probe for inside/outside temps. I'm not including it as a cost for my rebuild because my wife has been asking for one so technically I'm counting it as hers... in about a month

[xt2005bonbon]

You should get one with humidity readings in/out too. I got one and I love it.

[BarManBean]

I understand that temp changes have an effect, but are you guys running things through a formula when taking measurements or something? Plus, you are talking about a couple degrees vs a couple hundred degree difference between a cold motor and one at operating temp.

[birkhoff]

FWIW, I've found that careless handling of measuring tools makes a bigger difference than a few degrees of ambient, as long as the latter is stable. Eg: bore gauges. Unless you have a setting ring (which I am pretty sure you do not -- nobody does) then you will be going back and forth and back multiple times to check against your micrometer. Setting with a micrometer means you have to handle the measuring head, and there you start to get drift. Since we are not professional machinists, we are slow and klutzy at this, which makes the drift worse. Use a glove to cut down thermal transfer. You will know if things are working if you get repeatable measurements that are sensible relative to factory specs. If you can achieve this pretty quickly, then you have a natural talent and the rest of the build is going to be great!

 

As far as budget, they tend to blow up in steps; plus $100 for this, plus $250 for that, and plus $200 'cause I'm in there already. The in-for-a-penny-in-for-a-pound principle is almost irresistible. However, budgets can be controlled in steps too. Do you really need it? Could it be replaced after the engine is in and you have determined that you don't have a pile of expensive scrap shortly after first startup? One trick I use is to remind myself there is a non-zero probability that the build will fail, and all my money, both essentials and nonessential will be lost in the pile of slag in my engine bay. For my recent build, I assumed 50%, just to keep the reigns pretty tight!

 

If you decide to go this direction you may want to take up some of the generous offers of parts from friends.

 

Someone (I think) offered you a set of OEM pistons. So far I have bought two sets off this forum, brand new pulls for $100 all in, pins and clips. Just have to source rings*. There's a big savings for you right off the bat, if you are already committed to stock pistons. Grab that oil cooler that BBM offered, unless you plan to reuse yours, in which case don't, and save yourself another $150 or so (new is about $225 right now). With some discipline and patience, I can imagine trimming $1K off your budget. That could generate some goodwill that would make purchasing a new set of rad hoses and belts after the car is running a little easier to justify.

 

* I have two A-grade pistons I'd be willing to throw into the project for $50, but the shipping from Canada would be another $50 and then one month wait for shipping/customs. Better if you can find a set of what you need stateside.

[birkhoff]

I understand that temp changes have an effect, but are you guys running things through a formula when taking measurements or something? Plus, you are talking about a couple degrees vs a couple hundred degree difference between a cold motor and one at operating temp.

 

Yes of course. Massive changes in clearances. But that is what the engineers are for. We can't measure things at operating temps, so everything is extrapolated back to standard temp: 20 deg C. Just like valve clearances. We set them cold to the values specified in the FSM so that once everything heats up, they don't close up completely!

 

Subaru allows pistons to be ~0.0005 bigger than the bore. You can be sure that situation doesn't persist at operating temps! As another example.

 

Measuring is an art (didn't someone say this already in this thread?) Probably best to just get started and see how it goes. In the context of the kind of rebuilds we are discussing here, operator error is much more likely to be a problem than temp control, so long as you are working at steady `room temp'.