Tehnation Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 I need a reason to upgrade to the 6mt, I never banked on my 5mt lasting very long, just long enough to gather all the materials to swap. I'm going to beat the shit out of this 5mt...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 hmmm so now to choose 4-2-1 or 4-1 exhaust manifold.... 4-1 seems like the best for high rpm. I'm thinking of this guy. https://www.maperformance.com/collections/exhaust-system-manifolds-headers/products/maperformance-16ga-ej257-header-2005-2017-subaru-wrx-sti-map-sub-elh That looks like a really nice header, especially if they have a 2" or larger up-pipe to go with it. I might have gone with that rather than my KillerB if I'd known about it (if it was in production back then?). It would be interesting to see a back to back test with that header and the KB to see if the longer runners have an advantage. The BC 280 cams will have enough overlap, even at zero AVCS advance, that I'd lean strongly toward equal length headers. They're not going to be crazy lopey like an old muscle car, but I'd be amazed if they idle like stock. The cam card says 6 degrees of overlap at 0.050 which I'm sure will be noticeable. Stock is -34 degrees with AVCS at rest and +6 with AVCS fully advanced. I'm looking forward to your results with those cams. If I knew then what I (think I) know now, I'd have gone with 280s rather than 272s. About RPM ranges and powerbands... My turbo hits full boost at just under 4000 RPM, and though the curves show it peaking at about 6500, it still feels like full power at 7k, so my current motor will let it rev to 8k. (As soon as I figure out why my WBO2 won't talk to my laptop... I'm itching to get on with tuning it.) I assume that I will feel it let up by 8k, and I'm fine with that - being at full power when the rev limiter comes up feels wrong, because there's obviously useful power on the other side of the rev limiter. Ideally, the peak of the power curve would be roughly in the middle of the shift RPM and the engage-next-gear RPM. I'm guessing that'll be roughly 7500 and 5500, leaving an extra 500 RPM to play with after peak power, which seems about right. It is gutless around 2500 RPM on the freeway. Relaxing. And kind of pathetic. I go from 6th to 5th just to get up some pretty moderate hills. But IMO that's a fair price to pay for the ride from 4000 on up. It really comes down to a personal decision as to whether (and how often) you're willing to downshift to access a bunch more power. Personally, I think it's worth the trouble. But I think I would mind a powerband that starts at 5000 RPM, even with an 8000 RPM limiter. My current 4k to 7k powerband is a little cramped, so I'm really looking forward to having an extra 1000 RPM to play with at the top end. $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 The headers came in today. Now I need to wrap them... bleh ...not looking forward to it.... I was comparing it with the killer b 4-1, and for 900 bucks, 600 dollars cheaper than the killer b, I couldn't resist. I stumbled on it on the nasioc forums, not much dyno info but I figured I would try it out for that price. What turbo are you running? I'm still waiting for my bnr billet 20g. If I can get peak power between 6500-7000 rpm I would be happy. Powerband starting at 5k? Are you talking about the chart I linked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 My rotating assembly is balanced for 10k rpm. I probably won't ever hit it but.... don't tempt me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 The headers came in today. Now I need to wrap them... bleh ...not looking forward to it.... I was comparing it with the killer b 4-1, and for 900 bucks, 600 dollars cheaper than the killer b, I couldn't resist. I stumbled on it on the nasioc forums, not much dyno info but I figured I would try it out for that price. What turbo are you running? I'm still waiting for my bnr billet 20g. If I can get peak power between 6500-7000 rpm I would be happy. Powerband starting at 5k? Are you talking about the chart I linked? I have a GT3076, it's about ten years old. It flows 52 lb/min, which I guess is pretty close the one you ordered, though hopefully yours will be making good boost a couple hundred RPM sooner since it's newer. Yes, I was referring to that chart. I'm guessing your turbo should be hitting 20psi by 3500-3750 or so in 3rd gear. Did you check piston-to-valve clearance with your new motor? Are there any issues at full AVCS advance? I'm just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 Motor hasn't been started, I haven't even finished building it, still waiting on the turbo and some other things.... but from what I have heard the bc 280 cams with the avcs have enough degree to make them play nice and idle normally vs the non avcs which is rough. So I can't say there will be any issues, but I highly doubt it! The bc cams imo seem to be a slight bit milder stage wise vs other companies cams where u have to grind this or that, but thats what makes them a lot more plug and play friendly. Avcs with stage 3 cams makes them easily tameable is the impression that i got. The cams were developed with avcs as a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) So this just came in the mail.... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NBNDKT6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 for 340 bucks..... I had to check it out... from inspection it doesn't seem that bad, gaskets are shit, and the welds are average/mediocre, but functional and passing, steel looks good.... I really can't complain for 340 shipped. Supposedly they are loud, but frankly I don't give a shit about aesthetics or garnishings , it has proper size tubing and seems very functional. Worst case I can invest in other mufflers to adjust tone. But a f***ing pipe is a pipe..... I woulda paid the 340 for the 3" to dual 2.5" and long pipe alone... the cheap mufflers and gaskets are a bonus imo! I am a firm believer in some things don't need to be re-engineered or over-engineered... Its a metal pipe with welds....So before the cheapo you get what you paid for police come and throw my ass in jail, I had to get my opinion in..... lol... function wise they look legit, sound wise .... no idea and don't really care! Edited November 17, 2018 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 It would be interesting to ask BC whether the specs on their cam card... http://www.briancrower.com/makes/subaru/cam_card/bc_0622.pdf ...are with the intake cam retarded (as it will be during a cold start) or advanced (as with AVCS). The intake centerline on BC's dual-AVCS 280s (and my 272s) is 130, and can be advanced to 110, but for single AVCS 280s the intake centerline is shown as 110. If it is 110 at rest, there isn't much room for AVCS to do its thing. It would make more sense for it to be 130ish at rest and then use AVCS to advance it. Here's the specs for dual-AVCS 280s, for comparison: http://www.briancrower.com/makes/subaru/cam_card/bc_0624.pdf It's weird that the intake cams are different, I would have expected them to be the same. If they really did put the centerline at 110, it might be a good idea to retard the intake cam pullies by one or two teeth within the belt, to give more separation. Then you could use AVCS to advance it back. At 110 degrees, you'll have 6 degrees of overlap @ 0.050, which I suspect will have a bit of a muscle-car lope to it at idle. At 130 it would have -14 which should idle pretty smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 blahhhh..... damn u... now i gotta write emails to brian crower and my tuner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 blahhhh..... damn u... now i gotta write emails to brian crower and my tuner... Post up the results? Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 Will do! Its the weekend now so I will probably have to wait until Monday for any kind of response, and at that point I will probably just call both to hear what they have to say as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) https://stmtuned.com/products/crankshaft-pulley-harmonic-balancer-fluidampr-subaru-ej-motors I want one...... ooooh boy! Someone tell me why I don't need it!!! Please! I can't seem to find anyone saying they didn't like it....... Edited November 17, 2018 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 OMG thank god you linked cam card... I completely forgot about those 4 screws which shut off the avcs.... sure enough they were installed. Taking em out now...... son of a b****....., I have to redo the timing belt..... I never opened the box or looked at the screws, so I don't know if these are them, I just saw 4 screws screwed into the cam which requires a 2.5mm allen key , so I'm assuming its them. Can anyone confirm this is what they look like ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 https://stmtuned.com/products/crankshaft-pulley-harmonic-balancer-fluidampr-subaru-ej-motors I want one...... ooooh boy! Someone tell me why I don't need it!!! Please! I can't seem to find anyone saying they didn't like it....... Most of the racers (time attack) use this. Check around for pricing. Although that looks pretty good. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I can't really confirm that those are the screws you're looking for, but that is where I'd expect to find them. There are corresponding holes in the AVCS pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) Hmmm.... after reading that cam card, I realized I need to figure out how I am going to break in this engine.... http://www.briancrower.com/makes/subaru/cam_card/bc_0622.pdf For cams it says break in for 20 minutes from 1500-2500 rpm And for Pistons/rings http://www.manleyperformance.com/dl/tech/Subaru-Piston-and-Ring-Installation.pdf "Ring Seating When first starting your engine to ensure proper ring seating, do not allow the engine to idle for long periods at a time. It is a good idea to mildly load the engine as soon as you can. Highway driving is a good way to properly seat the rings quickly. Do not idle the engine as idling does not break in any engine. Manley DOES NOT recommend the use of synthetic oils during break-in. After 2000-3000 miles on the street, or one night racing on the track, the rings should be adequately seated so that any oil you prefer can then be used." Hmmm .... lol ....reminds me of sbc nonsense.... Edited November 19, 2018 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 Also in response about the cams, I got a response from BC, and it's quite simple! "The intake cams out of the box are on a 130 lobe center. The tag provided is only for disengaging AVCS to run standard gears." So it is at 130 with avcs!! So lets keep it moving lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 I also ordered my fluidampr crankshaft pulley! To many reasons to have one...... also gotta love when you have been around the block long enough to see trends come and go, its like half the shit I learned when I bought the car turned out to be smoke and mirrors and everything is reverting back to original subaru concepts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 Response from BC. "Follow the engine break in procedure and you will not have any issues. Run it for a few minutes at least and fluctuate from 1500-2500 and do not use synthetic and then follow the engine break in." simple enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Also in response about the cams, I got a response from BC, and it's quite simple! "The intake cams out of the box are on a 130 lobe center. The tag provided is only for disengaging AVCS to run standard gears." So it is at 130 with avcs!! So lets keep it moving lol! That's good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Got my turbo... I'm wondering if I should wrap these headers.... wrap is a pita and isn't healthy for the metal because it keeps in moisture. But it does help slightly and makes it easier to work with. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 I didn't. Not worth the risk of an oil fire IMO. Subaru put the headers in a great place to collect any drips. Of course plenty of people do it anyway, and 99% of them have no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 ok, back in the garage... i got hung up on this wrap nonsense, then winter came and I had other shit to do lol. NSFW you can run it without any issues to other things like the oil cooler/oil filter and oil cooler coolant line or its rubber ends? I'm really lazy and dont want to wrap it and deal with fiberglass in my skin.... but i'm not lazy enough to ignore it if it will be a long term issue.... i just took off the headers and uppipe with plans to wrap but I really don't want to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I have the Killer B header, which I think has more clearance there. I can see why you'd want to wrap that, and/or wrap the lines than run near the header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 ..... back at it... ordered all the hoses and trinkets I needed, t-stat, spark plugs etc. finally wrapped the headers.... installed oil pressure gauge... getting this done by end of august. now i have to figure out where all these intake hoses go.... blaaaah, everything just fell out of my brain..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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