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Tehnation's Ballin on a budget rebuild!


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Rods, that's easy, we use a set of this brand in the Civic's race engine.

 

http://pauter.com/shop/rods/subaru/

 

For the high HP 2L Honda engine we had a set made from here.

 

http://www.bmeltd.com/rods.htm

Edited by Max Capacity

305,000miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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Rods, that's easy, we use a set of this brand in the Civic's race engine.

 

http://pauter.com/shop/rods/subaru/

 

For the high HP 2L Honda engine we had a set made from here.

 

http://www.bmeltd.com/rods.htm

 

1k for rods puts this realllllllllly far from balling on a budget :lol:. A standard forged rod should be able to handle 8k rpm.

 

I do not want to spend more than 300-400 for rods. Hopefully I can find a good piston+rod deal for like 700-800.

 

I don't think my fueling will let me go past 500whp, might get me close but the dw65c limits are pretty much where I gotta wrap this up :lol:.

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Probably I'm speaking way out of turn here, but have you considered going back to your original plan? The budget rebuild? Tear it down. Get some stock parts and rebuild it to stock HP, at least the bottom end. That way, you have a DD and will learn a lot in the process. You may change your plans/expectations completely by the end of that project. There is a lot to like about the stock setup! After all, you bought the car and drove it pretty much stock, right?

 

Maybe you have built dozens of motors and have access to a clean assembly room, and all the nice tools and whatnot that the pros use to make this a day-in day-out proposition. They can't afford a screw up because they make a living doing this. You can't, because you don't have the money to blow it up and walk away. If you don't have the pro-setup (either not a lot of experience, or not a fancy environment) I would argue that pulling this off at stock HP levels will be plenty challenge enough the first time through.

 

It is not difficult to find another SB with bad ringlands that you can use to start building up your ultimate monster. Having something on the road to run around with (that is also fun, admit it, even at stock power levels!) could be considered a bonus.

 

Just a thought.

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Price for stock parts vs forged parts makes it hard to rebuild with stock parts. How much for stock pistons and rods? 400-600 maybe? vs a set of forged pistons and rods for like 800-900?

 

Crankshaft is same for either at that point why not spend the extra 300 or so dollars to be able to rev past 7k rpm?

 

There aren't many fancy tools, we already have most of the standard things. Rebuilding process is the same for stock parts or forged, just takes time, biggest thing is making sure you have correct tolerances. You basically stick a piece of plastic where the bearings go, bolt it down, take it apart and now you know the gap and what bearing to use. Its not exactly rocket science.

 

Stock isn't fun anymore.... never has been. Ive had the car almost 5 years, i think I started modding it the first month of buying...

 

Stock.....:lol:

Edited by Tehnation
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Someone already offered you a set of stock pistons `cheap'. You should be able to get what you need for $100 - 200 off this board, with rings. But you are right, saving a few hundred dollars here and there on the bottom end is false economy if it won't handle the parts you want to bolt on later.

 

Green plastigage goes down to .001. Stock clearance on the mains, for example, is .0004 to .0012. You can estimate/extrapolate from the scale but I found I got different measurements with it every time I torqued the case together. Ended up using a bore gage. That was reliable and repeatable. Because I was trying to use my old crank and mix and match bearing shells, I had the case apart many times. My mains ended up at .0012, .0013, .0014, .0016 and .0014 so basically 1.5 thou, except #1 which was tighter. Only one of these within spec but the others were close to the 1.5 thou that is a common target you'll hear from the rebuild guys.

 

If you do buy a new crank, you may have better luck with plastigage than I did. I think a lot of my problems came from the slight out-of-round conditions on my old crank, even though it was checked and cleaned up by a machinist and cleared to go back in the block.

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If you run out to .002 then I guess the obvious question is whether you can flow enough oil. Setting my mains at .0015 I have to admit I was curious what would happen with oil pressure. Turns out to not be a problem. I'm holding ~ 20PSI hot, at idle which is well above the minimum. Pressure pops up to 80 PSI pretty quick. This is with 10-30 FWIW.

 

The donor block I purchased had a 50K oil pump with it. On inspection, it showed only light polishing on the running surfaces and clearances were all down the middle of spec, so I just reused it. That is a 10mm pump. The pump I took out of my 180K engine also looked good, but measured at the max for tip and side clearances. I wouldn't reuse that.

 

All this indicates you will probably be fine with a little more room on the mains. Check the NAISOC board for posts from builders who have actually done this. Also, there are lots arguments there about the pro/con of larger oil pumps etc. I don't have an informed opinion on that.

 

As for the block, it's at 100 miles on the break in. Everything is looking good (touch wood). No leaks of any kind. Runs smoothly and it idled well after about 5 minutes of relearning by the ECU. Before first startup I primed by cranking with the plugs out and had full oil pressure in a couple of revolutions. I also cracked open the banjo connection at the turbo CRH to confirm oil was there. Made a big mess pretty quick! After that, coolant and oil are staying where they are supposed to.

 

Once you break open the block and measure things, let us know what you find.

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I bought this one a while back. It should do the job.

 

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Subaru-15010AA360-Oil-Pump/dp/B00IGZP9D4]Amazon.com: Subaru 15010AA360 Oil Pump: Automotive[/ame]

 

Subaru 15010AA360 Oil Pump, i think its the 11mm.

 

 

So much info to go through on nasioc, soooooo much, its amazing. Lots of very good info over there.

 

But from general engine theory i know when you are beating the piss out of car, i have a very heavy foot, the engine tends to get hotter, metal expands and that gap fills up, the more oil that can flow during that expansion helps with keeping things a bit cooler etc....... There's a lot to consider. Every motor has its own secrets and quirks.

 

This split block stuff is an absolute pita.....

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I bought this one a while back. It should do the job.

 

Amazon.com: Subaru 15010AA360 Oil Pump: Automotive

 

Subaru 15010AA360 Oil Pump, i think its the 11mm.

 

 

So much info to go through on nasioc, soooooo much, its amazing. Lots of very good info over there.

 

But from general engine theory i know when you are beating the piss out of car, i have a very heavy foot, the engine tends to get hotter, metal expands and that gap fills up, the more oil that can flow during that expansion helps with keeping things a bit cooler etc....... There's a lot to consider. Every motor has its own secrets and quirks.

 

This split block stuff is an absolute pita.....

 

If you are wondering about the best way to split the case, I strongly recommend the wooden dowel method. Cut one that is long enough to span the cylinder walls (through access ports) and big enough to be a decent fit in the wrist pin bores on the rods. Just like a wrist pin but about 2 inches longer. Once all the pistons are out, set the block on the bench and drop #1 to BDC, insert the dowel and turn the crank gently until you just begin to see a little separation at the front end of the parting line. Now do the same thing at the back (#3 or #4, doesn't matter).

 

Repeat front to back and walk it apart until you are just about free of the dowel pins. There rest can be done with a soft hammer on some convenient part of the casting. Do NOT put anything into the parting line, of course. If it does not split easily with this method, then you may have missed a bolt somewhere (the small ones at the water pipe or back end are sometimes missed). So don't force anything until you are sure, and you shouldn't really have to.

 

Using a scissor jack (another published method) seems kind of brutal, and only works on one end of the case. Simply pounding it apart with a BFH is, of course, poor workmanship at the very least.

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I have to find a 1/2" drive 12 pt socket that can fit in between the cylinder sleeve and coolant passage...... wtf, otherwise i have to find a 3/8" drive 12 pt socket but i don't feel like breaking my ratchet, would prefer my 1/2" breaker bar... either way these bolts are a pita.

 

My god the placement of bolts on this car sometimes is mind blowing.... small slender Japanese hands required big fat American hands need not apply!:lol:;)

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I have to find a 1/2" drive 12 pt socket that can fit in between the cylinder sleeve and coolant passage...... wtf, otherwise i have to find a 3/8" drive 12 pt socket but i don't feel like breaking my ratchet, would prefer my 1/2" breaker bar... either way these bolts are a pita.

 

My god the placement of bolts on this car sometimes is mind blowing.... small slender Japanese hands required big fat American hands need not apply!:lol:;)

 

I used a cheap car jack on the bell housing to split. Worked great. For those water jacket bolts I actually ground down the outside of a 1/2 drive 12pt with a dremel.

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Some Pics

 

https://goo.gl/photos/RQ2Dby14McbQdtyi6

 

This engine is a mess, it leaks everywhere lol. But i will say this motor took my beating like a champ, i drive this car like I stole it everytime i start it! :lol:;)

 

i'm not very good at taking pictures, most of them were for reference.

Edited by Tehnation
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From the oil on top it looks like you had a pretty bad leak on your power steering pump? That issue has been haunting me. On my 3rd pump now. That shaft seal just keeps leaking right out of the front.
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From the oil on top it looks like you had a pretty bad leak on your power steering pump? That issue has been haunting me. On my 3rd pump now. That shaft seal just keeps leaking right out of the front.

 

I've heard that can be caused by the belt being to tight.

305,000miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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From the oil on top it looks like you had a pretty bad leak on your power steering pump? That issue has been haunting me. On my 3rd pump now. That shaft seal just keeps leaking right out of the front.

 

Damn almost forgot.... another thing to add to the list.....

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  • 2 weeks later...

Next step is to bring it to machinist and have him inspect crank and take precise measurements and let me know if everything is still round. Hopefully it will just need a linish.

 

So for machine work:

-bore out cylinders

-clean and deck the block halves

-linish crank and install/recommend appropriate size bearings for crank and rods, hopefully i can get away with stock size.

 

If I can get this all done between 600-800 bucks, I will be on track to rebuilding for around 1800.

 

800 for piston/rods, 200 for master gasket set, maybe another 200 for some arp head studs, i still need to do my homework and research to see if they are necessary.

 

We will see what my machinist quotes me. If my crank is still perfectly round, then the same size bearings are going in.

Edited by Tehnation
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Looks good. So much nicer when you haven't had a major failure with accompanying shrapnel before rebuild.

 

What do the bores look like? How are the camshaft journals and their respective bores?

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