laz Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 They gave all of this except for the 6 speed in the 3.0 back in the 4th gen cars. What did people do? Tune them incorrectly, blow up turbos/engines/transmissions, put them back to factory stock tuning and try to get Subaru to pay for the bill. Same thing will happen if they did it again. Too much of a headache for little gain. If you want a sports car buy one, but don't try to make a family car a sports car. this is why we can't have nice things! If subaru did everything that people wanted, people would not buy it anyway. This is why there are so few 5th gen LGT's. --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 They gave all of this except for the 6 speed in the 3.0 back in the 4th gen cars. What did people do? Tune them incorrectly, blow up turbos/engines/transmissions, put them back to factory stock tuning and try to get Subaru to pay for the bill. Same thing will happen if they did it again. Too much of a headache for little gain. If you want a sports car buy one, but don't try to make a family car a sports car. this is why we can't have nice things! If subaru did everything that people wanted, people would not buy it anyway. This is why there are so few 5th gen LGT's. but i don't want a sports car. I just want a big, fast, AWD, manual, family car/grocery getter/stoplight monster/highway killer that's dead reliable and resonably priced.... is that so much to ask for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Fast-Fun-Cheap Pick two. --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spb Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Even Camry and Accord have higher powered engines (+12hp and +22hp) with no problem to transmission. And with smaller displacement. I think Subaru will have to bump up the power on the H6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I driven some of those cars. The way the power is delivered they feel slower. And honestly do you really want to drive around in a Camry? --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Subaru is such a small player in the game to be having that many engine/transmission configurations. As far as the auto market goes they are only 3%. The Legacy is built in one factory and that's it, unlike some of the above mentioned cars that are built in multiple places so more variations can be assembled. US emissions laws also put a cramp on the ability to produce higher output cars. The tolerances for the 2.5i have been shrunk down extremely tight to meet the standards and as we first started testing them at Subaru this became apparent. We test with the CC on as varying more than 1mph in either direction will fail the test and keep the computer from being tuned properly. legacies are built in both indiana and japan. we just only receive the ones from Indiana because that just makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spb Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Speaking strictly engine hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I driven some of those cars. The way the power is delivered they feel slower. And honestly do you really want to drive around in a Camry? You're basically doing that now, it just has a different badge on the rear. But its got AWD!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 You're basically doing that now, it just has a different badge on the rear. But its got AWD!!!!! Exactly! Plus you don't see one on every corner like a cheap hooker. It's amazing how many features you get with the Subaru that other makers either charge extra or don't offer at all! --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Exactly! Plus you don't see one on every corner like a cheap hooker. It's amazing how many features you get with the Subaru that other makers either charge extra or don't offer at all! "Eyesight" aside ... do you live in a parallel universe where "feature rich" Subies are the norm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 "Eyesight" aside ... do you live in a parallel universe where "feature rich" Subies are the norm? Yes, right here, the good 'ol USA! All features standard on the Limited which would be extra on other models: -Both drive and passenger auto dimming and heated rear view mirrors. -Both front and rear heated seats. -Usable 7" touch screen GPS Harman Kardon premium sound system. -Vented rear discs. Most cars are solid. -Active Torque Vectoring. -Rear Vehicle Detection System featuring Blind Spot Detection. -Keyless entry. -Push button start. -Front seat-cushion airbags. -Approach outside illumination. -Passenger side power seat. and the best thing that all 4th gen owners wanted: -One touch sunroof open and close! --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If subaru did everything that people wanted, people would not buy it anyway. This is why there are so few 5th gen LGT's. Make that, this is why there are so few 5mt GT wagons. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 The v6 Camry and Accord have some balls compared to their earlier models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Yeah but those spinning/slipping front tires leave a lot to be desired! --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Can Subaru push the 3.6R engine closer to 300hp without forced induction? Here are some examples of 6cyl engines in similar displacement range: 268hp (+12hp) with 3.5L - Camry 278hp (+22hp) with 3.5L - Accord 290hp (+34hp) with 3.5L - TLX 300hp (+44hp) with 3.5L - Maxima 335hp (+79hp) with 3.6L - Camaro LT 350hp (+94hp) with 3.6L - TVR Tuscan 350hp (+94hp) with 3.7L - 370Z Nismo 375hp (+119hp) with 3.8L - Boxter Spyder Feel free to add. 1. Yes they can but Subaru is after fuel economy while maintaining AWD 2. TLX has got some teething issues 3. NONE of those FWD or RWD cars are really capable in the snow 4. Some of those engines (Porsche for example) have INSANE oil consumption issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Even Camry and Accord have higher powered engines (+12hp and +22hp) with no problem to transmission. And with smaller displacement. I think Subaru will have to bump up the power on the H6. Honda's 5spd auto is crap (all of them) and they both bring power up near redline so unless you are going full tilt, not a big deal in daily driving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Can Subaru push the 3.6R engine closer to 300hp without forced induction? Here are some examples of 6cyl engines in similar displacement range: 268hp (+12hp) with 3.5L - Camry 278hp (+22hp) with 3.5L - Accord 290hp (+34hp) with 3.5L - TLX 300hp (+44hp) with 3.5L - Maxima 335hp (+79hp) with 3.6L - Camaro LT 350hp (+94hp) with 3.6L - TVR Tuscan 350hp (+94hp) with 3.7L - 370Z Nismo 375hp (+119hp) with 3.8L - Boxter Spyder Feel free to add. Rotrex-charged EZ36; 388hp@6475rpm / 455nm@4195rpm http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/rotrex-power-3-0r-68613p13.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spb Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Once again, power delivery is a separate subject. Sure transmissions can be bad on camry and accord, and they are not awd etc. But legacy H6 is under-powered compared to other six cylinders. Even KIA is able to have 293hp with a 3.3L. Someone mentioned that subaru wants to maintain fuel efficiency due to AWD. So the power is kept low. Now this makes sense. However I have a feeling that people choosing 6cyl over 4cyl are after the power and not MPG. I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 It's not that people are wanting Power vs. Fuel Economy. It's that having AWD lowers the fuel efficiency, and Subaru still has to hit CAFE requirements. Limiting power can help them improve fuel economy and hit CAFE standards, but at the cost of power. Something that came up sometimes several years ago (i haven't noticed it lately) would be people would claim when putting lower octane gas in their Turbo Subarus, it would yield higher fuel economy (MPG). They made the false assumption that it must mean the motor is operating better. Instead, most likely, the ECU was limiting fuel delivery to prevent knock and producing less power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Lower octane causing knock would result the engine to pull back on ignition and possibly also make the mixture richer so a lower octane rating would most likely make the fuel economy worse, not better. And risk damaging the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Not what people reported. They were saying they were getting better fuel economy. A richer mixture, sure, but probably limiting power in the process. One thing is for sure: the car wasn't running better on lower octane gas. Whatever the perception, it's not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Once again, power delivery is a separate subject. Sure transmissions can be bad on camry and accord, and they are not awd etc. But legacy H6 is under-powered compared to other six cylinders. Even KIA is able to have 293hp with a 3.3L. Someone mentioned that subaru wants to maintain fuel efficiency due to AWD. So the power is kept low. Now this makes sense. However I have a feeling that people choosing 6cyl over 4cyl are after the power and not MPG. I may be wrong. Look at it this way. Gas has a set amount of energy per gallon... now you can use that energy to 1. Make power 2. Move something heavy as efficiently as possible while maintaining acceptable acceleration With the US government literally breaking everyone's nuts on fuel economy, in order for Subaru to keep their signature feature, they have to sacrifice power. I am totally down with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 The way around stuff like that is to make it reasonably easy for aftermarket tuners to increase the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Aftermarket dose make supercharges for the 2.5's and 3.6's. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGeneral Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Pretty sure the 6 cylinder is going away & 2017 is the last year. My buddy at the local dealer says the 6cyl. Leggies don't sell well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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