Sadams11 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 "Hello All, So I purchased my 2006 Legacy GT Limited about 5 months ago and unfortunately have had nothing but problems with the car. Most of it was because the previous owner was a young kid and beat the crap out of the car without taking care of it. Anyways the most recent problem is that I have had this issue where I will be driving along and the car's RPM's will begin to go crazy, they spike up and down and if you continue to hold the throttle the car will begin to misfire. As soon as I put in the clutch the car will just shut off. It will continue to do this until you let the car completely cool down before driving it again. The problem is it will just randomly happen and it seems to only happen after I put gas in the car or if I just get out of stop and go traffic. I have had the car towed to a dealership where they wouldn't work on the car because it was too modified then had it brought to a reputable tune shop, where the car was originally tuned, and they can't seem to figure out the problem because they can't reciprocate the issue while driving it. The first time I brought it to them they found a severe air leak in the oil catch can and a small inner piston leak in the BOV but they said the oil catch can was probably the cause of the issues. Well I drove it home the hour and 15 mins from the shop and the car ran amazing, so solid I was actually surprised it was my car, but the next day after mid afternoon traffic.. the issue came back. Some side notes; I have already had spark plugs, spark plug tube seals, coil packs clean and new boots put on before this issue occurred. After I had these parts put on is when I began to have this problem, I then thought it might be the fuel pump because the fuel pump duty on my accessport was never leaving 33%. So I changed the fuel pump with the same Deatschwerks DW65c fuel pump it had on before and changed the fuel filter. Now heres where it doesn't make any sense.. the car ran perfectly fine for a week and a half. It wasn't until I was coming to home from work, low on gas and had just gotten out of traffic, that the car began to act funny again. Minus the air leak fixes, I also just had them clean emission hoses and the charcoal container near the gas tank thinking maybe it was clogged. I just don't get whats going on and it seems like such a random problem that I'm not sure if anyone will be able to give me some insight on what the issue might be but I have no where else to turn." So I posted this a couple weeks ago, with hopes maybe someone could give me some insight as too what was going wrong with my car. Someone had suggested that I change the front o2 sensor and so I did and well I had no luck, the problem is still there. The way I found this out is by doing a test. It seemed like my probably was always after I got out of traffic, the stop and go of traffic seemed to be the cause of the problem. So I went around my neighborhood, stoping and then driving a small amount forward, then stoping again, reciprocating like I was in traffic, well I got my car to create the problem again and now Im think maybe its a coil pack itself. Like I said I had never had this issue until after I had my spark plugs, coils packs cleaned like I had stated previously. Does anyone have any thoughts on this hunch or maybe what else is could be? A important detail is that I have never thrown a code when this problem happens. If you drive with no traffic just cruising on the highway the car is phenomenal. Around 2-3k is where the car seems shakey. So... after reading that this is my third post about this problem, I replaced the coil packs as I thought maybe they were the problem. The packs I had pulled out clearly were old and looked to be super worn out, must have been the original ones. Well when I replaced all four with new ones at first the car wouldn't start. After further examination the boots that I had come on the coil packs were too long and were making contact with the spark plugs so I changed the boots with the shorter ones I had bought previously and the car started... well kinda The car eventually turned over and ran and it slowly began to idle noramlly, it wasn't until I started to drive it that things started getting weird. The car began to shake, pretty noticeably, and everytime I would hit the throttle the car wanted to stall out. How come this happened? My dad and I took out the coil packs at least 4 or 5 times checking and making sure everything had a strong connection and that it was making contact. Is it the coils pack that were bought? Or is it something I did? I feel as though its pretty straight forward and hard to mess up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJMC Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Did you get the firing order correct-- The harnesses you plugged into the coil packs? If you have them plugged in the wrong order the car will run crappy or not at all. Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadams11 Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 Did you get the firing order correct-- The harnesses you plugged into the coil packs? If you have them plugged in the wrong order the car will run crappy or not at all. Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk Maybe thats why, I was under the impression they were like spark plugs and it did not matter which pack you put where, I did them one by one so each pack I removed had a new one put in immediately so I didn't mix up the order but its a possibility. Is there a correct order for packs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJMC Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Its not the coilpacks themselves. You can plug those wherever. It is the wiring harness/connector that plug into them that may have gotten out of order. Check out that thread to see if that helps. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55977 Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadams11 Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 Its not the coilpacks themselves. You can plug those wherever. It is the wiring harness/connector that plug into them that may have gotten out of order. Check out that thread to see if that helps. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55977 Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk Thank you, I appreciate all the help, when I have a moment I will check and make sure I didn't mess anything up and get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 The key is, "after you put gas in the car". That is where the problem is, it's the fuel vent system. One of the local guy's had a issue like this, I'll try and find his thread. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=subaru+legacy+charcoal+canister&oq=subaru+legacy+GT+charcoal+ca&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i22i30.3100.23626.0.25825.31.31.0.0.0.0.165.2770.26j5.31.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..4.27.2425.0.cmsGqy3YTdM I think its the purge valve ? Can't remember his on line name, but he also had Chevy Beretta's. Any CEL ? https://www.google.com/search?q=subaru+legacy+purge+control+solenoid+valve&oq=subaru+legacy+purge+valve&gs_l=serp.1.2.0i22i30l4.32308.35251.0.45037.11.11.0.0.0.0.97.853.11.11.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.11.853.TL-fk8i8x_8 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhNineGT Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Having a similar problem. Interested to see on this purge valve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadams11 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=subaru+legacy+charcoal+canister&oq=subaru+legacy+GT+charcoal+ca&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i22i30.3100.23626.0.25825.31.31.0.0.0.0.165.2770.26j5.31.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..4.27.2425.0.cmsGqy3YTdM I think its the purge valve ? Can't remember his on line name, but he also had Chevy Beretta's. Any CEL ? https://www.google.com/search?q=subaru+legacy+purge+control+solenoid+valve&oq=subaru+legacy+purge+valve&gs_l=serp.1.2.0i22i30l4.32308.35251.0.45037.11.11.0.0.0.0.97.853.11.11.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.11.853.TL-fk8i8x_8 Its not the coilpacks themselves. You can plug those wherever. It is the wiring harness/connector that plug into them that may have gotten out of order. Check out that thread to see if that helps. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55977 Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk Having a similar problem. Interested to see on this purge valve Update for you guys and side note: * For you guys thinking it has to do with once I put gas in, I think that just happened to be a coincidence in all honesty, after my test of stopping and going around my neighborhood I realized it had to be something ignition related. Also CEL has ever been thrown due to this issue which is the most frustrating and abnormal part. Update: So I called the manufacture that I bought the coil packs from. When putting in the new packs I noticed that the boots were longer then the boots that had come off from the old ones, to me this was odd and it was making life a living hell trying to get the new ones in because the packs weren't going in all the way. I called the manufacture and told them what I had found. Turns out of the recent 300+ orders of the coil pack I was the first and only one to have a problem. The manufacture had shipped me the wrong coil packs, the ones not meant for the Legacy GT, unsure of what they are actually meant for, so they are going to send me the correct ones and Im hoping that this will fix my issue. Should I be worried that I messed up the gap of the spark plugs by trying to forced the wrong coil packs in with the longer boots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 One word of advice: Stop throwing money and parts at the problem. You are only wasting your time and money. I am willing to bet there is nothing wrong with many of the parts you replaced. Follow the service manual for better troubleshooting techniques. Have you gotten a compression or leakdown test? The car was abused. Misfires can happen when you have a broken piston or have a burned valve. Have you checked for vacuum leaks? What is your A/F Learning #1 A value? If you don't know what this is, stop and learn what it is by researching datalogging in the tuning subforum. Is your oil catch can vented to atmosphere? If so, I am willing to bet that's your problem. Get rid of it and go back to stock vacuum plumbing. Vacuum leaks will always manifest during low engine rpms as roughness and feel like misfires. Your coil pack can't mess the spark plug gap up. It's not possible. The spark plug gap is on the inside of the cylinder. Your fuel pump at 33% duty cycle is not an issue. This is where your fuel pump will operate for most of your driving. It will only go to 100% duty cycle at WOT. What octane fuel are you putting in the engine? What are your error codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadams11 Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 One word of advice: Stop throwing money and parts at the problem. You are only wasting your time and money. I am willing to bet there is nothing wrong with many of the parts you replaced. Follow the service manual for better troubleshooting techniques. Have you gotten a compression or leakdown test? The car was abused. Misfires can happen when you have a broken piston or have a burned valve. Have you checked for vacuum leaks? What is your A/F Learning #1 A value? If you don't know what this is, stop and learn what it is by researching datalogging in the tuning subforum. Is your oil catch can vented to atmosphere? If so, I am willing to bet that's your problem. Get rid of it and go back to stock vacuum plumbing. Vacuum leaks will always manifest during low engine rpms as roughness and feel like misfires. Your coil pack can't mess the spark plug gap up. It's not possible. The spark plug gap is on the inside of the cylinder. Your fuel pump at 33% duty cycle is not an issue. This is where your fuel pump will operate for most of your driving. It will only go to 100% duty cycle at WOT. What octane fuel are you putting in the engine? What are your error codes? Well you have to understand this is my first Subaru and I don't have previous experience with these cars, just always wanted one, so you have to excuse my lack of knowledge (which is why I turn to you guys) I'm just learning as I go. Like I said in my earlier posts I have never thrown a code due this problem. This makes it very hard to narrow it down to one thing as too why the car is acting the way it is. I agree that I have certainly wasted a lot of money on parts, that I probably didn't need to replace, but if I hadn't replaced the parts I never would've gotten to this point. I've just had to do it the old fashion way and replace parts to narrow it down. I also have to go off whatever knowledge I have when the problem occurs while I'm driving, and what I had done previously to cause the car to act funny. It sucks and once again you're very much right that it is a complete waste of time and money but again, without throwing a code and being able to read it with my accessport I have no idea whats causing the problem. As for some of your other questions: I always put in 93 octane pump fuel I have thrown codes for running lean due to vacuum hoses coming off before, the first one I was able to diagnose myself, the second one was harder to find so under further examination from a professional, the leak was found, due to another hose coming off, the car was also checked for any other potential leaks I have checked my A/F Learning #1 before because I was curious as too what it was with this problem and I want to say when I found a thread on here giving the proper readings for A/F Learning #1 that the reading was spot on with what it was supposed to be. As for the compression test/leak down I have never had one done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I wasn't trying to be hard on you. Just know I've chased my tail on this car and my issues have come up time and time again and I've replaced several parts that did not need to be replaced If you don't have the manual, search for "vacation pics" on this forum to get it. Ask questions on here and we'll help you out. Hopefully ask them before you start throwing money at the problem. What is your IAM/DAM? Do you have any timing being pulled due to knock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swapstar Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Perhaps it is the Crank angle sensor. I had a similar problem a few years back. Car would run fine and idle fine until it reached operating temperatures...then it would stutter, lose power and just shut off and won't start until it was cold again. I had another LGT to swap various sensors and fuel pump with and it wasn't until i swapped the crank angle sensor that everything started to work fine again. Might be something worth to consider and the part is relatively cheap brand new. ($30-40) Just my two cents...hope it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Check the wiring harness plugs as well. I have had a pin pull out from working on the car and it caused a CEL for the crankshaft position sensor circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadams11 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 I apologize for not getting back earlier, with the holidays I've been quite busy but I did get around to getting my new coil packs (the correct ones) and I installed them quickly, they went in relatively easy after pulling them out and putting them in so many times but anyways the car has been running well so far, I haven't had any issues with the car at all, I haven't had it in traffic so that will be the true test but I did do my local start/stop test again after the car was hot and I couldn't get the car to act up again no matter what I tried so I'm assuming I fixed the problem, if anything else happens I'll be sure to come back, I appreciate everyones help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfrank Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I'm having a similar problem - low idle (500 rpm) and missing at low RPM, when I get it up "on the pipe" over 2500 rpm the problem goes away. Cruises fine at 70-80 mph - just problem at low speeds, perhaps an injector problem, coil pack, vacuum problem, etc......I'll let you all know, when I have a chance to investigate. CEL is on and last I checked it was O2 sensor which I have not replaced since it was running fine at the time.......will run the test again tomorrow before the big DC blizzard hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 The bad O2 could be a fault because its running bas and fouled the sensor...or the sensor could have been going bad and causing your low rpm issue. That's assuming its the front sensor ? What's the code ? You can read Jmp's sticky to find which O2 sensors work well. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfrank Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 well, as it turns out the #2 plug wire keeps falling off the plug.....for whatever reason the base of the connection was a little worn, so I trimmed a quarter inch off and got it good and tight onto the plug......problem solved........wish they were all so easy to fix!!!! still gotta do something about the CEL though since emissions is coming up.....will report back after dig out from snow here! thanks, FD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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