Independent testing of the Grimmspeed Intake

[cryo]

Should be a fun test. I will say that I have seen most intakes increase boost levels without an increase in wgdc specifically because of less restriction preturbo when compared against the stock box. I have also seen a couple hundred rpm quicker spool without any wgdc changes because of this as well.

 

I cannot say it makes more power in a lot of cases, just makes the turbo work less to create the same amount of boost. Theoretically a turbo that's working less should create more power but that has not always proved to be the case based on compressor efficiency and testing I have ran. I remember testing the cobb intake and the K&N a bit and seeing the difference and going wow, this should make a bit more power across the power band but unfortunately the lines traced almost the exact same on the dyno one everything was scaled in.

 

I'm excited to see your results and waiting on a local customer to do some testing as well here. Either way great to see you doing this for the community and subbed to see your results. Hats off to you mike for thinking of doing this at such a perfect time for everyone here on the edge to purchase one.

 

Dave

[Rhitter]

We doing this on my car yo! 05 BSM LGT 5spd Wagon. Current mods on the vehicle being tested are VF52, Grimmspeed divorced wastegate catted downpipe, catless uppipe, FMS catback, and TGV deletes. All new on the car as of 111k miles(current mileage) Stock Fueling. We will be comparing the Grimmspeed intake to the stock intake and k&n panel filter. Excited to see what we make of it!

 

Do you have an upgraded TMIC or FMIC? Am I just blind and you listed it?

[doobaruGT]

In for results. I had thought about talking to Dave since he's going to e-tune me shortly and ask about running some data logs for comparison but there are too many variables and no good way to isolate any specific parameters. Im coming from a AEM and going to the GS. Also I'm using a different tuner so I'm glad someone 3rd party is running this!

 

Excited to see the outcome!

 

 

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[Tuning Alliance]

Should be a fun test. I will say that I have seen most intakes increase boost levels without an increase in wgdc specifically because of less restriction preturbo when compared against the stock box. I have also seen a couple hundred rpm quicker spool without any wgdc changes because of this as well.

 

I cannot say it makes more power in a lot of cases, just makes the turbo work less to create the same amount of boost. Theoretically a turbo that's working less should create more power but that has not always proved to be the case based on compressor efficiency and testing I have ran. I remember testing the cobb intake and the K&N a bit and seeing the difference and going wow, this should make a bit more power across the power band but unfortunately the lines traced almost the exact same on the dyno one everything was scaled in.

 

I'm excited to see your results and waiting on a local customer to do some testing as well here. Either way great to see you doing this for the community and subbed to see your results. Hats off to you mike for thinking of doing this at such a perfect time for everyone here on the edge to purchase one.

 

Dave

 

Thanks! Maybe a little more power and tq during spool, if it spools better. It will be interesting to see how close 12% scaling is as well.

[heiche]

Maybe you'll get the always-surprising P0244 overboost fuel-cut with the new filter (another sign that the same WGDC yields more boost, due to better breathing)

[Tuning Alliance]

I believe he has the stock TMIC for now.

[serx7]

We doing this on my car yo! 05 BSM LGT 5spd Wagon. Current mods on the vehicle being tested are VF52, Grimmspeed divorced wastegate catted downpipe, catless uppipe, FMS catback, and TGV deletes. All new on the car as of 111k miles(current mileage) Stock Fueling. We will be comparing the Grimmspeed intake to the stock intake and k&n panel filter. Excited to see what we make of it!

 

Envious! I'm running similar upgrades on my 05 OBXT -- VF52, GS CAI, IPR TMIC, TGV deletes, Invidia catless UP, Cobb catted DP, Nameless resonated mid/Y, stock mufflers. I'm also running DW740's and a DW65c pump.

 

FWIW I definitely see evidence of better breathing w/ the GS CAI. W/ no changes to boost targets (19.7 psi peak b/n 3k-4k, then tapering to 15.6 psi by 6800 rpm), WGDC Low/High or turbo dynamics, I am now overshooting target by 0.5-0.75 psi across the board, all the way to 6800 rpm. Same IAT, same stretch of road, and in the more lightly loaded 3rd gear, etc. W/ the stock airbox and a clean paper filter, I'd always see positive boost error of ~0.5-1.25 psi (undershooting target) above 5000 rpm even in 4th. Also, b/n gearshifts I'm seeing 1.5-2 psi boost spikes after engaging the next higher gear. I haven't seen spikes above 1-1.25 psi in the past year that i've been running w/ the current boost targets/WGDC/turbo dynamics, in any weather condition.

 

Have been meaning to touch base w/ TuningAlliance about possibility of a new protune w/ the GS CAI, but simply haven't had time to compose the message. If I lived closer, I'd stop by just to watch this

[serx7]

Thanks! Maybe a little more power and tq during spool, if it spools better. It will be interesting to see how close 12% scaling is as well.

 

^ Def this. Until I either get re-tuned or get a WBO2 installed, I had initially applied the 12% scaling and have been comparing MAF voltages/MAF g/sec readings from prior datalogs under identical IAT and ambient temps on the same stretch of road, same gear, etc.

 

So far I've seen that MAF voltage is a bit lower than it was w/ the stock airbox across the RPM range, which is causing IDC to be lower than w/ the stock intake. Not unexpectedly, I started seeing intermittent knock around 4500 rpm after I started putting back in the 1-2 deg base timing I had initially pulled out when I installed the GS CAI. I'm now at 14-15% scaling and MAF g/sec and IDC are closer to (but still slightly below) what I was seeing w/ the stock airbox pulls. The 4500 rpm intermittent knock appears to have disappeared as well. IIRC the target AFR from the original/unlocked protune was 10.9-11.0, so perhaps the orig tuner had run it slightly richer for safety and I'm now just inside the knock-free safe zone.

 

If you're willing to disclose even in general terms what your scaling ended up looking like, I'd be curious to know your outcome.

[Rhitter]

I believe he has the stock TMIC for now.

 

I thought stage 2 (especially with a vf-52) was essentially the upper limit for the stock TMIC.

 

How do you expect the TMIC to impact the tuning?

 

Look at us all asking you to speculate when we could just wait until tomorrow...

 

Thank you for doing this!

[solidxsnake]

I'll let Mike post up results and his insight, but I'll give you guys a quick teaser.

 

By the design of the intake box that comes with the GS intake, there was some trouble with IAT while on the dyno. Since it doesn't use the stock cool-air duct, and the filter is pretty much in the fender well, there was no good way to get any form of fresh airflow into the inlet. Tried pointing a fan from the bottom, but it still didn't do any good. Eventually, the decision was made to pull the box, drop in the stock duct, and see how it compared. IATs dropped decently, and the dyno-tune portion was finished then.

 

Some shots of the setup for the final dyno runs. We pulled the GS intake box, and just jammed the stock cold air duct in there in order to get some blower-fan airflow near the intake. Granted, the stock duct outlet lines up pretty much on the inlet pipe, it still seemed to help quite a bit.

 

http://i.imgur.com/mqkcjxp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IDgKPlr.jpg

 

Some shots of our TA-tuned cars in central-bumfuck MA:

 

http://i.imgur.com/oyIOohQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WrXaNzK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lNSVzry.jpg

 

Overall, the impression I got was that the GS intake is pretty and well-constructed, but after seeing its performance compared to the stock intake and stock or K&N Filter, I'm glad I didn't splurge and buy one to replace my Cobb SF. I'm baffled why they didn't design their box to mate with the stock cold-air intake duct; it seems like it would have taken minimal effort to modify the design of the box, and would have helped keep IAT down when not at speed, for sure.

 

I'll yield to Mike to give you guys actual results!

[snm95ls]

Well that doesn't sound very promising.

 

 

I guess we will see what the data says.

 

[Tuning Alliance]

I'm going to put the info in the first post. So please look there! I will be editing and adding to that post. Thanks!

 

Mike

[Tuning Alliance]

Run 1 Stock intake, with stock used panel filter.

AFR @ full boost: 10.8 flat

Peak boost from dyno sensor: 17.0 psi

6200 rpm Boost from ECU: 14.1 psi

WTQ: 264 ft-lb

WHP: 247

 

 

Run 2 Stock intake, with K&N panel filter.

AFR @ full boost: 10.7-10.8 flat

Peak boost from dyno sensor: 16.8 psi

6200 rpm Boost from ECU: 14.2 psi

WTQ: 266 ft-lb

WHP: 253

Gained with the K&N panel 6whp with a slightly richer AFR, and slightly less peak boost, certainly a good improvement over the stock filter!!!

 

 

Run 3 Grimmspeed intake, with stock fresh air duct, removed GS air box.

AFR @ full boost: 10.7-10.5 mild taper

Peak boost from dyno sensor: 16.6 psi

6200 rpm Boost from ECU: 14.8 psi

WTQ: 263 ft-lb

WHP: 256

Gains of 3 WHP above the K&N panel filter, slightly rich AFR, less peak boost, but more redline boost.

 

See first post for full details.

[magnusonsubie]

Interesting findings. I might look into fabing something up to create positive pressure in the fender well through the front bumper. It is good to know that during the pull the change in temperature wasn't affected too much but I could see the city driving aspect being a problem. Thanks again for doing this!

[Tuning Alliance]

Interesting findings. I might look into fabing something up to create positive pressure in the fender well through the front bumper. It is good to know that during the pull the change in temperature wasn't affected too much but I could see the city driving aspect being a problem. Thanks again for doing this!

 

You could easily trim the stock fresh air duct, and cut a hole in the GS air box to use them together. Otherwise maybe removing your fog light would let it breathe.

[Tuning Alliance]

I can tell you guys that I will be buying an AEM dry panel filter for my car. $38.99! Oil free!

[hadvw]

So, in the end, not that much to write home about? Do you think going from OEM filter to AEM dry panel filter needs a re-tune, or is it within adaptability range (you mentioned 2% off at the top end)?

[Tuning Alliance]

So, in the end, not that much to write home about? Do you think going from OEM filter to AEM dry panel filter needs a re-tune, or is it within adaptability range (you mentioned 2% off at the top end)?

 

These cars do not adjust for high end fueling. You need a tune! Learning generally is limited to under 80-120 grams/sec airflow. The OEM sensor cannot read below 12.2 AFR, although it says 11.14 it could be anything under 12.2.

[joeleodee]

Interesting findings. Thanks for sharing.

 

I have a personal experience with different intakes. My setup is a ball bearing turbo, ewg, and hybrid boost control. I was running a 65mm AEM CAI and that was getting maxed out with about 23.7 peak boost tapering to 20psi. I slapped on an 83mm KStech intake and after I simply rescaled the MAF and not adjusting any boost, peak boost actually jumped to 24.1psi while following the same shape taper. That being said, whp did not change much as my setup is maxed out where fueling is concerned.

[Tuning Alliance]

Interesting findings. Thanks for sharing.

 

I have a personal experience with different intakes. My setup is a ball bearing turbo, ewg, and hybrid boost control. I was running a 65mm AEM CAI and that was getting maxed out with about 23.7 peak boost tapering to 20psi. I slapped on an 83mm KStech intake and after I simply rescaled the MAF and not adjusting any boost, peak boost actually jumped to 24.1psi while following the same shape taper. That being said, whp did not change much as my setup is maxed out where fueling is concerned.

 

Yea, so you ran out of resolution. That's when you're having fun. It would be interesting to see speed density with a stock maf, vs a big cai. Aside from over flowing the sensor, I would expect it to reduce power more as your setup becomes better.

 

There are big gains to be had with big turbos, intakes and compressor inlets. For example a gt30 with a 2.4" inlet vs a 4" inlet is a big difference. In the case of a vf52 you have a 2.4" inlet, so a 2.75" intake isn't really choking it. The filter elememt is a different story was a good lesson today.

[TheMonaLisa]

I wonder if the 08-14 WRX that this intake was originally designed for had more cold air flow to the fender.

 

 

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[BarManBean]

I wonder if the 08-14 WRX that this intake was originally designed for had more cold air flow to the fender.

 

 

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Similar design with headers openly smashing that area with heat.

[serx7]

Thanks so much for doing this testing and reporting back w/ so much detail.

 

How long was the car stationary on the dyno before the IAT effects started to creep in? It's been in the mid/high 60F where I am in NJ and I haven't seen IAT creeping up while idling & stationary, but where I typically drive I usually don't get stuck in standing/slow moving traffic for more than a few/several minutes before things get moving again. My daily weekday commute is 85-90% highway so I might be able to get away w/ the current airbox design. Might be a diff story in staging lines at a dragstrip though...

[covertrussian]

I can tell you guys that I will be buying an AEM dry panel filter for my car. $38.99! Oil free!

 

Check out Amsoil EA filters too, they are dry flow and have a pretty small micron filtration ability. I picked up EAAU3050-EA, and it has a built in flow stack too, plus top velocity stack.

 

I plan on running these filters on my other cars too, getting tired of oily filters.

[xtea]

So was the testing that Chase did not entirely truthful?