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Sure I can go into detail about which tables are missing and why they are extremely important. It is also possible that I don't have the best definitions available for OS, but tracking them down can be a challenge in itself. So forgive me if that is the case, but based on what I have here are my findings. There are benefits on the logging side, as btssm has done some great work and can support custom sensor inputs, being able to log a wideband real-time in the same log is a beautiful thing.

 

A/F Learning #1 maf airflow limit - This table limits the a/f learning below a specified g/s. If you set CL delays to 0 and the car is fueling lets say 11:1 afr at 100 g/s, the ecu will learn a negative value over time and begin to lean out the high end. This can be very dangerous if learning values are not monitored closely over time.

 

A/F correction #3 limits - This allows the ecu to make fuel adjustments off of the rear o2 signal for "improved" emissions. This can also sneak up a week after the tune and begin to alter the fueling throughout the entire range. Even with a disconnected rear sensor it is advisable to disable this ability of the ecu as an variance in voltage will potentially alter fueling.

 

Target throttle angles (idle airflow target) - Some engines require increased throttle opening to return to idle smoothly. They often will dip down to 300-500 rpms when you let of the throttle, then come back to target idle speed. They will often learn to give additional angle over time, but some cars will even stall due to this. It generally is only a problem on big rotated builds with after market intake manifolds.

 

There are also other less important tables, for example waste gate duty compensation for coolant temp. I may add some more info later, just need to do a few other things at the moment.

 

~Mike

 

That's in all the OS maps as well. The AF #1 is trivial to change, the AF #3 takes a little more work to get to:

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102162#p102162

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8131

 

You're correct about the idle airflow throttle target not being commonly defined, however.

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There are benefits on the logging side, as btssm has done some great work and can support custom sensor inputs, being able to log a wideband real-time in the same log is a beautiful thing -I would have to check into this as I was not aware of BTSM logging in conjunction to the ap and incorporating the data into the same log. I have used the TGV 0.5V source before to log directly into the ap prior to knowing this so I will have to look into that. The cobb logger is lacking in a lot of areas and have been using a few different log viewers due to that but now I am using megalogger which is amazing, you should check it out if your not using it.

 

 

A/F Learning #1 maf airflow limit - This table limits the a/f learning below a specified g/s. If you set CL delays to 0 and the car is fueling lets say 11:1 afr at 100 g/s, the ecu will learn a negative value over time and begin to lean out the high end. This can be very dangerous if learning values are not monitored closely over time. - This is definitely one of the tables I would like to see in the OS software but I strongly rely on a properly scaled maf sensor up to 80-100gps to cure this fact just like the stock maps did. I normally do not see more than about 1-2% correction max on my custom tunes in A/F learning D after doing this and it has worked well for years. As long as its not running excessively lean targets this is not an issue imo

 

A/F correction #3 limits - This allows the ecu to make fuel adjustments off of the rear o2 signal for "improved" emissions. This can also sneak up a week after the tune and begin to alter the fueling throughout the entire range. Even with a disconnected rear sensor it is advisable to disable this ability of the ecu as an variance in voltage will potentially alter fueling. - This is defined in most ecu's by request from TD of romraider.com, its also something that can be adjusted via your base targets since they normally do not have a lot of range positive or negative from my experience

 

Target throttle angles (idle airflow target) - Some engines require increased throttle opening to return to idle smoothly. They often will dip down to 300-500 rpms when you let of the throttle, then come back to target idle speed. They will often learn to give additional angle over time, but some cars will even stall due to this. It generally is only a problem on big rotated builds with after market intake manifolds. - I could see where this would and IS helpful with very large builds but most times I would say this is a null point on the LGT platform when E-tuning due to this not being a norm. I never offered speed density E-tuning on cars with large builds such as this and most times would stray away from these type of builds on maf cars via etuning just due to the care it takes to make a car with such a valued build run correctly so I like it to be in my hands

 

There are also other less important tables, for example waste gate duty compensation for coolant temp. - I normally tell my opensource customers to use commen sense and not romp on the car before coolant temps are warm. Granted its an amazing safety feature but not required imo.

 

 

 

I may add some more info later, just need to do a few other things at the moment. -Thank you for your reply, The only reason I bring this up is due to customer concerns and trying to make sense of the comments I have been reading. As always I do not mean to question your integrity, just want to make sure the customer is well informed as I have no gain in the situation.

 

Dave

Edited by cryo

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That's in all the OS maps as well. The AF #1 is trivial to change, the AF #3 takes a little more work to get to:

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102162#p102162

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8131

 

You're correct about the idle airflow throttle target not being commonly defined, however.

 

What about disabling CEL's, I noticed in a 03 wrx i was doing the other day, i was still getting pending codes. They won't throw the actual cel, but is there a way to shut them off in OS?

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What about disabling CEL's, I noticed in a 03 wrx i was doing the other day, i was still getting pending codes. They won't throw the actual cel, but is there a way to shut them off in OS?

 

That depends on the map, unfortunately. Generally if you can find a similar ROM with them defined, I'd imagine it's not much work to find the CEL tables and addresses, but that involves being comfortable with hex editing (the major downside to OS tuning, for sure).

 

For example, the "latest" ECUFlash ROM for my '07 spec.B does not have the CEL tables defined, but someone on the forums got them added to the definition. I imagine all they had to do was search for the CEL block in hex from a similar LGT ROM and find the address of where those tables start, though I didn't do it myself.

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What about disabling CEL's, I noticed in a 03 wrx i was doing the other day, i was still getting pending codes. They won't throw the actual cel, but is there a way to shut them off in OS?

 

Did you mean like this, or does disabling a DTC this way not necessarily disable pending codes?

 

(example RR screen shot)

https://flic.kr/p/Lkh8oj

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That's in all the OS maps as well. The AF #1 is trivial to change, the AF #3 takes a little more work to get to:

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102162#p102162

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8131

 

You're correct about the idle airflow throttle target not being commonly defined, however.

 

 

I'm not really in love with that method of limiting the a/f learning, as you loose a break point the in the table, but I suppose it'll work.

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I'm not really in love with that method of limiting the a/f learning, as you loose a break point the in the table, but I suppose it'll work.

 

No, you don't lose a break point in the table. It's exactly the same as the AP from what I can tell. You leave the first three cells the same (5, 10, 40 g/s on a stock rom) and then modify the fourth (80 on my stock ROM). The fourth is the limit.

 

Edit: ah, that's the wrong thread with essentially all the information you need. There's a thread somewhere on this site where someone (i want to say it was covertrussian) changed the limit value (instead of the D cell value) and it seemed to work as intended.

Edited by solidxsnake
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Mike, in case you're interested on trying this with your OS tunes here's how you "unlock" the "A/F Learning #1 Modify Airflow Limit (Min/Max)" tables:

 

1. Open up your OS ROM and edit the map for the A/F Learning #1 Airflow Ranges.

2. Subtract 4 from the address listed (use Windows' built-in calculator in "Programmer" mode, or just use an online hexadecimal calculator if you're not familiar with hexadecimal arithmetic), increase the number of elements to 5, and then add in lines in the description for the map for "Min Learning A" and "Max Learning D."

 

That's it! Here's a before/after screenshot of what it looks like for my particular ROM ('07 spec.B A2UI000L). In my case, the A/F #1 Learning Max A/Min B range is located at address 0xC8AE0. The Min A is located 2 bytes before the Max A/Min B value (2 bytes works out to an offset of 4), so subtract 4 from the address to begin the table there (in my case, 0xC8AE0 - 0x4 = 0xC8ADC). The Max D value is located 2 bytes after the Max C/Min D value, so you can just extend the table to look at 5 elements instead of 3, and they'll all appear in one table.

 

I imagine this should be an identical procedure for all 32-bit Subaru ECUs that use the same closed-loop learning logic. All it is in memory is 10 consecutive bytes (2-bytes per entry in the table), which should be pretty easy to find assuming the ECUs stock map uses the same ranges (1.6g/s min, 5.6, 10.0, 40.0, 80.0 max) by just searching for the bytes "3F CC CC CC 40 B3 33 33 41 20 00 00 42 20 00 00 42 A0 00 00" in a hex editor.

AF1Limits.thumb.png.fac96a77678445ab1433db57beeacd51.png

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Mike, in case you're interested on trying this with your OS tunes here's how you "unlock" the "A/F Learning #1 Modify Airflow Limit (Min/Max)" tables:

 

1. Open up your OS ROM and edit the map for the A/F Learning #1 Airflow Ranges.

2. Subtract 4 from the address listed (use Windows' built-in calculator in "Programmer" mode, or just use an online hexadecimal calculator if you're not familiar with hexadecimal arithmetic), increase the number of elements to 5, and then add in lines in the description for the map for "Min Learning A" and "Max Learning D."

 

That's it! Here's a before/after screenshot of what it looks like for my particular ROM ('07 spec.B A2UI000L). In my case, the A/F #1 Learning Max A/Min B range is located at address 0xC8AE0. The Min A is located 2 bytes before the Max A/Min B value (2 bytes works out to an offset of 4), so subtract 4 from the address to begin the table there (in my case, 0xC8AE0 - 0x4 = 0xC8ADC). The Max D value is located 2 bytes after the Max C/Min D value, so you can just extend the table to look at 5 elements instead of 3, and they'll all appear in one table.

 

I imagine this should be an identical procedure for all 32-bit Subaru ECUs that use the same closed-loop learning logic. All it is in memory is 10 consecutive bytes (2-bytes per entry in the table), which should be pretty easy to find assuming the ECUs stock map uses the same ranges (1.6g/s min, 5.6, 10.0, 40.0, 80.0 max) by just searching for the bytes "3F CC CC CC 40 B3 33 33 41 20 00 00 42 20 00 00 42 A0 00 00" in a hex editor.

 

I'll have him take a look at it.

 

-Brian

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No, you don't lose a break point in the table. It's exactly the same as the AP from what I can tell. You leave the first three cells the same (5, 10, 40 g/s on a stock rom) and then modify the fourth (80 on my stock ROM). The fourth is the limit.

 

Edit: ah, that's the wrong thread with essentially all the information you need. There's a thread somewhere on this site where someone (i want to say it was covertrussian) changed the limit value (instead of the D cell value) and it seemed to work as intended.

I've done the same on my 3.6R and it works as intended.

 

I also disabled all AF Learn/Correct #3 and #4 (H6, so both Bank 1 and Bank 2 tables apply) fueling contributions because my O2 sensors are no longer physically located behind the cats (making any/all fueling contributions to CL suggested by them useless).

Edited by Perscitus
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  • 2 weeks later...
I've done the same on my 3.6R and it works as intended.

 

I also disabled all AF Learn/Correct #3 and #4 (H6, so both Bank 1 and Bank 2 tables apply) fueling contributions because my O2 sensors are no longer physically located behind the cats (making any/all fueling contributions to CL suggested by them useless).

 

:cool:

 

-Brian

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Make sure to contact us for all your etuning needs! Unlike others we support revisions for up to 6 months!! No rushing, quality first and foremost! Contact us today to get started!

 

-B

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I'm not really in love with that method of limiting the a/f learning, as you loose a break point the in the table, but I suppose it'll work.

 

That's actually how Subaru restricts learning after a certain point, they use a table called "AF#1 Learning Max Threshold" and for 05's it's set to 80g/s.

 

Funny thing is, since stock scale D column set to 40.00+ even though the ECU stops at learning past 80g/s it still will apply everything learned between 10-80g/s and apply it to open loop, kind of dumb logic honestly.

 

By setting the AF Learning lower, your not really loosing a break point or anything. You just need to make sure you adjust the Learning scales to go up to the "AF#1 Learning Max Threshold" value. I'm not sure how Cobb is different about this, they all use the same ECU code so as long as tables are defined right should be no different :).

 

More details on this can be found in the link I mention below.

 

No, you don't lose a break point in the table. It's exactly the same as the AP from what I can tell. You leave the first three cells the same (5, 10, 40 g/s on a stock rom) and then modify the fourth (80 on my stock ROM). The fourth is the limit.

 

Edit: ah, that's the wrong thread with essentially all the information you need. There's a thread somewhere on this site where someone (i want to say it was covertrussian) changed the limit value (instead of the D cell value) and it seemed to work as intended.

 

Here's the post that you are talking about :)

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

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Yes, I understand (as solidxsnake already pointed it out), but like I said it is not present in all the standard definition files. Obviously exists in the ECU.

 

Mike

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An update on my Tuning Alliance Stage 2 Tune:

 

From the mouth of my better half, "This is how this car should have came from the factory.".

 

I installed invidia up\down pipes, and a grimspeed crosspipe, I was afraid the crosspipe would get too hot around the oil filter so I engineered a heat shield from the OEM one.

 

Took me the better part of a day working by myself, mostly because of little things like trimming the turbo heatshield, making the crosspipe shield, and making sure I got every bolt torqued correctly. (I'm a bit OCD and paranoid when it comes to my cars).

 

I couldn't help but laugh as my father watched me hook up the test connectors and proceed to flash the ecu, as he asked "have you done this before?"

 

"Welp, I've read but never written".

(He is from the muscle car generation, so anything past bolt ons and engine mods are foreign to him, pun intended)

 

So the flash went flawless, I was more nervous for those two minutes than the entire days work. Unplugged test connectors, said a short prayer,and turned the key.

 

I could hear the difference immediately.

 

Guys, just let me say, that was the best $200 I have ever spent on a car.

 

I turned my logger on, all looked well, so I proceeded to make my 2hour voyage home, keeping the revs low, as hard as that was.

 

 

Flawless, that is the word.

I've driven this same 2hr drive 100 times, and could point out every hill\bump\curve where the car would stumble like it wasn't programmed right.

 

Not now.

 

i can FINALLY leave this car in D and forget about what rpm range I'm in, I can forget about being afraid my car will bog at the wrong time.

 

If you buy an 05\06 LGT, take my advice, buy the down\uppipes, get Mike to send you a tune, and skip the hassle of being upset at the factory tune.

 

I took a short drive earlier, can hear the most beautiful spooling sound by 2000rpm.

 

I fkkn love my TA tune, and you will too.

 

 

I think this is the post i needed to read

 

being a noob and having the infamous fourth generation stumble problem, I have a feeling that wiping the factory tune is the only option. and reading these fantastic reviews about TA made me feel much more comfortable.

 

once I get an after market up-pipe and down-pipe installed, I will be contacting TA again.

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You may want to get your up/dp from TA, they can sell you what you need. Build a relationship with them. It has great payback. Great customer service.

 

You may be able to do the install...soon too...??? How great will that be for us who are local...

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

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You may want to get your up/dp from TA, they can sell you what you need. Build a relationship with them. It has great payback. Great customer service.

 

You may be able to do the install...soon too...??? How great will that be for us who are local...

 

Ya what max said shoot us a message and we can hook you up on the parts too unless you are buying used.

 

-Brian

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Yes, I understand (as solidxsnake already pointed it out), but like I said it is not present in all the standard definition files. Obviously exists in the ECU.

 

Mike

 

RomRaider definitions are falling behind a bit (due to the pain to update them), ECUFlash definitions actually have all of these. Next time you need to tune an opensource car use the latest version of ECUFlash and you should be good to go (ECUFlash def's on RomRaider.com are way out of date too :lol:).

05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg

12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct

00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg

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Make sure to contact us for all your etuning needs! Unlike others we support revisions for up to 6 months!! No rushing, quality first and foremost! Contact us today to get started!

 

-B

Contact us for all your tuning and performance parts needs! Etuning the legacy community since 2008!

Follow us on FACEBOOK | INSTAGRAM

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  • 2 weeks later...

Been a while since I've updated on my wagon. The vf52 has 92,000 miles. I had the dp and up off the week, checked the turbo, zero shaft play. The car was down for a week and a half or so for various reasons, exhaust leak at up pipe, PS pump leak, brake line leak (Subaru replaced all the brake lines and left rear caliper, at no charge), had a bad wheel speed sensor.

 

While the wagon was down I drove my Spec B. It's also tuned by Mike, but the difference the vf52 makes in the wagon is amazing. It's so responsive and keeps making HP up top where the vf46 falls off.

 

Last Saturday while the wheel speed sensor was being a PITA. I put the wheel back on a said let someone else fix it. While at diner that night my GF ask me, if I was fed up with the car? I asked, do you think I's ready to sell it ? I said no way, life is great when I put my foot into the throttle. There's nothing out there with this much bang for the buck.

 

Thanks again to Mike for giving me such a fun car to drive.

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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Been a while since I've updated on my wagon. The vf52 has 92,000 miles. I had the dp and up off the week, checked the turbo, zero shaft play. The car was down for a week and a half or so for various reasons, exhaust leak at up pipe, PS pump leak, brake line leak (Subaru replaced all the brake lines and left rear caliper, at no charge), had a bad wheel speed sensor.

 

While the wagon was down I drove my Spec B. It's also tuned by Mike, but the difference the vf52 makes in the wagon is amazing. It's so responsive and keeps making HP up top where the vf46 falls off.

 

Last Saturday while the wheel speed sensor was being a PITA. I put the wheel back on a said let someone else fix it. While at diner that night my GF ask me, if I was fed up with the car? I asked, do you think I's ready to sell it ? I said no way, life is great when I put my foot into the throttle. There's nothing out there with this much bang for the buck.

 

Thanks again to Mike for giving me such a fun car to drive.

 

 

:):cool:

 

-Brian

Contact us for all your tuning and performance parts needs! Etuning the legacy community since 2008!

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