pakkuman Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 As the market shifts towards electrification of powertrains, it will negate the boxer engine and AWD (want AWD, just buy another electric motor a la Tesla). Having the perception of a slightly nicer interior would only help differentiate themselves from the bargain models, as well as continuing to innovate pet / active lifestyle advantages for their vehicles. Safety, utility, and practicality are on most everyone's list for the average consumer these days. Hence why CUVs have taken off. I didn't say I wanted it to compete with Infiniti, their cheapest AWD offering is $35K, quite the jump from $18-23K... I wouldn't mind a Subaru that didn't have a low rent interior, just saying. They are on a roll and I personally think they are in a position where they can gradually increase the quality of their interior over the next decade and position themselves to capture millennial buyers who will be in their late 30s/early 40s by then. In regards to performance, a Legacy GT / STI would capture that upmarket position of performance / luxury that a 335 does, but for much less. I'm not sure how much life the WRX STI has left in it and I feel they would be better off putting that R&D into a 330 HP BRZ with nice interior / trans/ susp for $28-$35K (for comparison a Cayman S currently has 325 hp / 2900 curb weight / 20 mpg). The BRZ is unique in that it's the only boxer RWD platform and they should use that to their advantage. Toyota will likely partner with BMW for their next sports car so they may have full reign on that project. That car could compete in rally and road racing and perhaps develop into a halo car in the future. Subaru's current market share is 3%. If they want higher market share, they will need to compete with the vehicles that will take away what makes a Subaru, a Subaru. Move upmarket, not downmarket and make better niche product that yields higher margin, rather than rely on volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Be careful what you wish for.. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/02/pros-and-cons-of-direct-injection-engines/index.htm Thats old news, most manufacturers have moved past that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I don't think subaru has ever aimed at the higher end market and probably never will. That is not who their target demographic is, although it has already been stated the average buyer for subaru has income around 80k a year. So it isn't they can't afford nicer they just like their subarus. Like me and my wife right now we look at safety first and Subaru is the leader there whether it be the awd or the reinforced passenger area. Reliability is another big issue for us and so far we have had nothing but good things to say, except the headgasket thing in our 03 forester, but we made the repair as more of a maintenance item than necessary repair the car ran fine for over two years with leaking gaskets. And when I traded it in it was still running great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Subaru already tried going more upscale with the 4th Gen Legacy. If you look at the base price of the 2005 2.5i and adjust the price with the Fed Government CPI (consumer price index, which is basically inflation), it was about $5K more than comparable 2010 and 2015 current models. The 4th Gen Legacy sold slightly less than the 3rd Gen Legacy and significantly less than the 5th and 6th Gen Legacy's. A poor mans Audi is smaller market than an awd alternative to the Camry and Accord that Legacys are currently marketed toward. My wife has a VW, they are slightly more upscale (and a little more expensive) than Subaru, Toyota and Honda. VW sales are in downward trend. As long as Subaru only makes AWD vehicles, I think the market for them below the snow belt is going to be limited. Subaru are pretty saturated in some of their key markets. I wouldn't be suprised if Subaru sales in Northeast were at the same level as Toyota or Honda. On the flip side when I have travelled to the South, I rarely see another Subaru. Also the 3% market is pretty good when one considers that more than 50% of the sales are truck sales in the US and Subaru doesn't make a true truck. GM, Ford, and Chrysler are 3 of the top 4 manufacturers (1, 2, 4, Toyota is 3). Those three represent 30% of the market share with their truck sales alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 From our first Subaru purchase in 2007 I have slowly seen an increase in Subarus around central Florida. But in the last few years there has been a boom in Subaru sightings for me. The most popular being the Outback then the forester, the wrx and STI are also fairly popular. I can see maybe in the drier climates the awd not being a big selling point but the people who claim it doesn't make a difference in hot weather areas have never driven during a real thunderstorm. Here it is a fact of life you will have to drive in the rain eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Subaru already tried going more upscale with the 4th Gen Legacy. If you look at the base price of the 2005 2.5i and adjust the price with the Fed Government CPI (consumer price index, which is basically inflation), it was about $5K more than comparable 2010 and 2015 current models. The 4th Gen Legacy sold slightly less than the 3rd Gen Legacy and significantly less than the 5th and 6th Gen Legacy's. A poor mans Audi is smaller market than an awd alternative to the Camry and Accord that Legacys are currently marketed toward. My wife has a VW, they are slightly more upscale (and a little more expensive) than Subaru, Toyota and Honda. VW sales are in downward trend. As long as Subaru only makes AWD vehicles, I think the market for them below the snow belt is going to be limited. Subaru are pretty saturated in some of their key markets. I wouldn't be suprised if Subaru sales in Northeast were at the same level as Toyota or Honda. On the flip side when I have travelled to the South, I rarely see another Subaru. Also the 3% market is pretty good when one considers that more than 50% of the sales are truck sales in the US and Subaru doesn't make a true truck. GM, Ford, and Chrysler are 3 of the top 4 manufacturers (1, 2, 4, Toyota is 3). Those three represent 30% of the market share with their truck sales alone. VW also cheapen their interiors and other things. I remember the complaints very well when the MK6 Jetta was release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 VW also cheapen their interiors and other things. I remember the complaints very well when the MK6 Jetta was release. They REALLY cheapened up the most recent generation of the jetta. my GF has a previous gen jetta and the thing drive gorgeously, fit and finish on the interior is damn near perfect. we test drove the new one (she drove) and even she could tell me that it drove like garbage compared to hers. i could even feel it in the passenger seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellesedil Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It's funny that the conversation is about VW now, because their bubble - and particularly their diesel bubble, if one even existed in the US - isn't just burst. It's been burst and the bubble solution has been dumped on the ground and covered with sand. I'm sure writing a check for up to 18 billion will look great in the accounting ledger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 ^I don't see how their CEO or whoever it was that authorized that will survive this mess. You do have to admit it was a pretty slick move only took them over 6 years to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 They REALLY cheapened up the most recent generation of the jetta. my GF has a previous gen jetta and the thing drive gorgeously, fit and finish on the interior is damn near perfect. we test drove the new one (she drove) and even she could tell me that it drove like garbage compared to hers. i could even feel it in the passenger seat That's the MK6. We had a MK5 before the Legacy. The MK6 cost cutting measures was part of the reason we ended up in a Legacy instead of another Jetta. Well that and the $9k-10k self imploding HFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuning Alliance Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Subaru is on the rise. Mitsu and VW not so much in the US. =) Contact us for all your tuning and performance parts needs! Etuning the legacy community since 2008! Follow us on FACEBOOK | INSTAGRAM [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Love the 15+ styling but I can't/will never buy cvt car. If I knew of a simple way to bring the 6MT 2016 2.5i into the states I would. So the wrx is now interesting and not the FA20 variant. So I guess I'll keep my 4th Gen until it rots and hope American stop being so lazy and unwilling to drive a manual car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA_MAXX Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I'm not sure that Lazy is the correct term. All my cars were originally manual transmissions. When I changed jobs and had to contend with stop-n-go traffic. Manuals became a PITA. I love the feeling of control with a manual. And with FWD, I could go anywhere. Snow\Ice no issue. But with stop-n-go traffic, which I've been commuting for the last 19 years. Sorry give me an auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellesedil Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 The CVT in my wife's Impreza is pretty decent. With even high-end manufacturers putting CVTs in their vehicles, the days of traditional automatics and manuals is numbered. Hell, even CVTs have an expiration date as a transmission option with the increasing focus on electric vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 ...the days of traditional automatics and manuals is numbered.... don't be that guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellesedil Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 don't be that guy... Shrugs, I made the most relevant statement about manuals that I could that car manufacturers pay attention to: actually buying one. But we all know why SoA dropped the LGT after 2012. Automagic transmissions are popular in general and car manufacturers are companies that need to sell appealing products. At least with CVTs, car companies are trying to improve efficiency and performance. But honestly, I can't wait until electric cars that perform like a Tesla Model S are available more widely and much cheaper. And those vehicles have the most optimal transmission of all: none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Shrugs, I made the most relevant statement about manuals that I could that car manufacturers pay attention to: actually buying one. But we all know why SoA dropped the LGT after 2012. Automagic transmissions are popular in general and car manufacturers are companies that need to sell appealing products. At least with CVTs, car companies are trying to improve efficiency and performance. But honestly, I can't wait until electric cars that perform like a Tesla Model S are available more widely and much cheaper. And those vehicles have the most optimal transmission of all: none. i don't really have any issues with CVT's (when they are good shitty one are... shitty) i just don't want to lose my manual. it was hard enough for me to find something with a 6 speed and AWD 3 years ago i just hope it won't be too much harder in another 3. CVT's can actually be useful in turbo applications since they can hold you right where you're making the best power, tho i guess that's true for all engine types... i wonder if they will make there way over to diesels (like v8's not little guys) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scontivt Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I have got to say that my wife's 2.4L CVT driven Mitsubishi Lancer is actually not that bad. It accelerates pretty decent and is very comfortable to drive. That being said, I do prefer my 6MT in my WRX. CVT's are good for commuters and long cruises in cars with lower power, and I'll even admit that I actually loved the way the CVT WRX drove when I test drove one . The power was there and didn't stop until I let off, as ripstik stated. I ended up with the 6MT because I love manuals even more, and I drive up and down a lot of fun roads on my way to and from work . Manuals will become something only for "true enthusiats", and will eventually cost more money than an automatic (as an "optional" Manual Transmission), followed by an eventual phasing out completely. The best way to prevent this is to keep buying vehicles with Manual transmissions, or move to Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakkuman Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I agree, manuals will be for enthusiasts and may cost more in the future as the next generation will probably have never driven a manual. My gf is in her mid-20s and has never driven a manual, my younger siblings have never driven a manual, and you can be sure that by the time the millennial generation's kids start becoming of age to drive, they may not even drive at all in the traditional sense. Much like the iPhone call button is probably not what kids think a phone really looks like (much less have ever used one like it). CVT doesn't bother me, but a proper DCT would be nice for future performance cars. Although, I hear the C7 A8 is a pretty good non DCT transmission with upshifts being fairly quick, but downshifts a tad slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I guess I could agree, but I will do my part to make sure my baby knows how to drive a proper 6mt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I taught my wife how to drive a manual when we first starting dating, since then it's all she'll buy, even in Washington DC traffic. Her Legacy will get passed down to my son til he goes to college at which point my daughter will get it. When the time comes, it's going to be tuff to replace since even Subaru thinks manual means your cheap and don't want any options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raybonz Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I taught my wife how to drive a manual when we first starting dating, since then it's all she'll buy, even in Washington DC traffic. Her Legacy will get passed down to my son til he goes to college at which point my daughter will get it. When the time comes, it's going to be tuff to replace since even Subaru thinks manual means your cheap and don't want any options. I know how to drive a standard since that was my 1st car and had 3 other standards but driving back and forth to Boston I would hate a standard tranny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Love the 15+ styling but I can't/will never buy cvt car. If I knew of a simple way to bring the 6MT 2016 2.5i into the states I would. So the wrx is now interesting and not the FA20 variant. So I guess I'll keep my 4th Gen until it rots and hope American stop being so lazy and unwilling to drive a manual car. Gen4 is my favorite Legacy BY FAR. My Gen6 is my second favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dga Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 ...even Subaru thinks manual means your cheap and don't want any options. That would be funny because current Subaru interiors lag the market in nearly every sense of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA_MAXX Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Oddly, I think in the future, we're going to pay more to have a manual. Culture change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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