TwoTone Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Are you saying frugal people have access to unknown vendor product defects, ecu algorithm miscalcs, design flaws, production run problems and other unforeseen issues like oil consumption, wheel bearing, head gasket, windshield, etc. You gotta get us these frugal consumers prognostication data. Please share that info! They could tell us about recalls, technical service bulletins, defects and other problems before there is even a statistical basis to support them. Those frugal people are amazing....hahaha That wasn't his point and you know it, you really are just a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Are you saying frugal people have access to unknown vendor product defects, ecu algorithm miscalcs, design flaws, production run problems and other unforeseen issues like oil consumption, wheel bearing, head gasket, windshield, etc. You gotta get us these frugal consumers prognostication data. Please share that info! They could tell us about recalls, technical service bulletins, defects and other problems before there is even a statistical basis to support them. Those frugal people are amazing....hahaha No, we have access to the internet.... I'm sure that you can figure out what happens next..... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 That wasn't his point and you know it, you are frustrating me and Im going to take a stroll. I know exactly what he's saying and it isn't always true. A frugal or cheap person can buy a car and have it cost more than higher priced car after oil consumption issues, cracked windshields, burnt out headlights, thin paint, etc. You can't research defective vendor supplied parts, engineering issues, paying full sticker on a car versus one with incentives, production flaws, etc. First year model runs, vendor supply changes, variations in tolerances, over worked employees, lack of maintenance to machinery and equipment all can cause a decrease in quality. Anyone who fails to see the inherent quality issues by doubling production of a complicated piece of machinery is naive and never took college business Econ or manufacturing classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD123 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'm just waiting for the prolific 4th gen fans to join the party and say that the 5th gen killed Subaru because it was designed all wrong, and as a result, was far too popular and sold waaaay too many cars, supporting huge increases in sales that Subaru eventually might not be able to keep up with (even though they have thus far...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'm just waiting for the prolific 4th gen fans to join the party and say that the 5th gen killed Subaru because it was designed all wrong, and as a result, was far too popular and sold waaaay too many cars, supporting huge increases in sales that Subaru eventually might not be able to keep up with (even though they have thus far...) Lol. That is excellent. There were a couple times 4th genders were hoping the increased sales would bring back the LGT.....course that is a valid point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07wrxstage2 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Every bubble pops eventually. Plain and simple. Doesn't mean they won't continue to grow and profit. Alex D. JDM Prestige Motors alex@jdmprestigemotors.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 If a company is built from the start with the intention of building a quality product consumers will buy and continues in that direction never deviating from its core philosophy. Then I wouldn't call that a bubble! A good company continues to innovate and remain on the cutting edge of emerging technology and manufacturing processes. That will always carry the chance of production issues or unforeseen problems. It is how that company handles the problems that keeps customers coming back. On a side note has anyone else watched the iihs crash test vids of the new subies? You should! Reminds me of why I drive what I drive! I was at a toyota dealer with my father-in-law who has been shopping for a new suv/truck and being as he has only owned fords he asked the salesman about rebates. The salesman smiled really big and said "Toyota doesn't do that, they don't have to. They offer incentives on some vehicles but rebates are for cars that wouldn't sell otherwise." If ever subaru starts offering rebates to buy their cars I will promptly return to this thread and apologize for arguing my point. Until that day if you are seeing a bubble it may be time to take a rest from the computer screen and get some fresh air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I know exactly what he's saying and it isn't always true. A frugal or cheap person can buy a car and have it cost more than higher priced car after oil consumption issues, cracked windshields, burnt out headlights, thin paint, etc. You can't research defective vendor supplied parts, engineering issues, paying full sticker on a car versus one with incentives, production flaws, etc. First year model runs, vendor supply changes, variations in tolerances, over worked employees, lack of maintenance to machinery and equipment all can cause a decrease in quality. Anyone who fails to see the inherent quality issues by doubling production of a complicated piece of machinery is naive and never took college business Econ or manufacturing classes. Cute edit. So based on this post, his point did go completely over your head. You're starting to sound like one of those people that has had too many college classes and not enough actual experience. We all know the types, they just don't realize they're it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Every bubble pops eventually. Plain and simple. Doesn't mean they won't continue to grow and profit. Subaru will continue to grow and profit. They just can't maintain this growth without making drastic changes. Really interesting was the FHI prez saying Subaru is upscaling their product...raising the product value and pricing! That will alienate some loyal Subaru customers who could go to competition. The prez admits they aren't structured for this type of growth or product positioned right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07wrxstage2 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Every bubble pops eventually. Plain and simple. Doesn't mean they won't continue to grow and profit. Subaru will continue to grow and profit. They just can't maintain this growth without making drastic changes. I'm confused. That's basically what I said. Alex D. JDM Prestige Motors alex@jdmprestigemotors.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxymomo Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I agree on some things. 2005 was a great year for Subaru, the STi, Legacy GT, Forester XT. I do like the Crosstrek though. Very cool. Also the BRZ is something different and as you can see the young guys are buying them to build. Subaru did mess up by getting rid of the GT in opinion. There is a reason why I prefer the GT over the WRX and STi. And the southeast is doing very well because there are a lot of military and they have the money and credit unions to afford them. Glad somebody pointed this out. The legacy gt was the luxury wrx, and it makes me sad it's gone. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 I was agreeing with you 07wrx. Just added couple other points. Subaru messed up dropping LGT. When it comes back with upscaled price, the competition will be better value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Glad somebody pointed this out. The legacy gt was the luxury wrx, and it makes me sad it's gone. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk I totally agree with this statement, and owned two Legacy GTs to back it up. Back in 2000 or so, I had gone in to my local Subaru to test drive the 2.5RS. They also had a used '98 LGT Limited. After driving the 2.5RS, stepping into the LGT was a large step up in quality/feel of the interior. I bought the LGT. When I was in the market again, WRX was here, and LGT turbo was here. I was slightly tempted by the WRX, but, again, the '05 LGT was a definite step up from the WRX, and pricing was close. The choice was easy. I put the '05 LGT in my stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbrain Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Subaru now outeslls BMW, VW and Mazda in America Because they are AWESOME!!! http://www.askmen.com/cars/car-news/the-reasons-for-subaru-s-success.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Subaru now outeslls BMW, VW and Mazda in America Because they are AWESOME!!! http://www.askmen.com/cars/car-news/the-reasons-for-subaru-s-success.html Is popular better? Do core Subaru customers like this? Look at GM, Toyota, etc. Subaru outsells Ferrari, does that make a Subaru better? jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akasa Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Subaru has been a niche auto manufacturer here in the United States for the longest time. I noticed that after Toyota took partial control of Subaru from what share GM had , Subaru slowly grew out of being a niche market auto manufacturer, with sights pointed towards more family and consumer orientated cars. Honestly, I'm impressed with Subaru as a brand; but I won't be buying another one, unless it's primary purpose is to be a winter car. I just don't like the newer ones enough to actually buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Subaru has been a niche auto manufacturer here in the United States for the longest time. I noticed that after Toyota took partial control of Subaru from what share GM had , Subaru slowly grew out of being a niche market auto manufacturer, with sights pointed towards more family and consumer orientated cars. Honestly, I'm impressed with Subaru as a brand; but I won't be buying another one, unless it's primary purpose is to be a winter car. I just don't like the newer ones enough to actually buy one. I agree. Wife doesn't like styling either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD123 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Subaru outsells Ferrari, does that make a Subaru better? For the typical car owner, absolutely. Ferrari's, while stellar performers on the track and in other high performance driving, are temperamental and very, very, very expensive to maintain and repair - definitely not a minimal maintenance vehicle, as most folks want. They also don't lend themselves to the more common tasks folks use their cars for, particularly if you have a family. I don't know that I would classify Subaru's success the past 5-10 years as being a bubble - they certainly aren't going to be able to maintain the current growth rate without making substantial investments in their manufacturing capabilities, but there's no reason they can't do that... doesn't mean that they will, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Glad somebody pointed this out. The legacy gt was the luxury wrx, and it makes me sad it's gone. honestly even if they threw a 6 speed behind the ez36 and called it a GT I'd be fine with that. i actually wanted a 3.6R when i went to buy my GT but the auto was a deal breaker. now that i have the turbo i would have definitely gotten it instead just because of the tunability of it, but a 6 speed behind the flat 6 would awesome and if you decide to go the extra mile and turbo or super charge it you'd have a monster on your hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakkuman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Subaru should definitely reposition itself as a more premium Japanese brand. I personally see it as the most German of the Japanese cars. It will never be a Nissan/Honda/Toyota/GM/Ford and I'm grateful for that. The Legacy needs a GT/SpecB/STI/"whatever you want to call it" trim. I don't see the H6 lasting too much longer. Also the wrx wagon, the Levorg, is kinda sexy. Where Subaru is lacking is the electric department. I think the electric vehicle will be ready for the mainstage this time around, with self driving vehicles soon to follow. Subaru needs to define itself here within the decade. They are on fire right now and need to advertise towards Millennials as they are reaching the age where they are getting stable in their careers and will be purchasing. They are a lifestyle brand and need to innovate towards that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellesedil Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Subaru should definitely reposition itself as a more premium Japanese brand. I personally see it as the most German of the Japanese cars. It will never be a Nissan/Honda/Toyota/GM/Ford and I'm grateful for that. Are you suggesting that Subaru should compete with Infinity? That seems like a terrible idea. Right now, Subarus are great values because you get a lot of car for the money. Expecting Subaru to have the fit and finish comparable to Infinity/BMW/Audi/Mercedes seems like a great way to price out their current customer base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Are you suggesting that Subaru should compete with Infinity? That seems like a terrible idea. Right now, Subarus are great values because you get a lot of car for the money. Expecting Subaru to have the fit and finish comparable to Infinity/BMW/Audi/Mercedes seems like a great way to price out their current customer base. I agree, subarus are built with utility and ergonomics in mind that is why even with ugly plastic cladding they still sell. Because it will take abuse of offroad/winter/beach/rock/dirt and still look as it did new. How many automakers added rear air for pets? Subaru knows very well their average customer isn't looking for performance or luxury they are looking for safety, utility, and practicality with basic amenities to remain somewhat competitive. German engineering is among the best in the world, but their long term reliability is severely lacking. But I will say this, BMWs are not called the ultimate reliability machine are they? Every successful car maker knows what they are and what they can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Subaru knows very well their average customer isn't looking for performance or luxury they are looking for safety, utility, and practicality with basic amenities to remain somewhat competitive. I hat to say that you're all to right about that. with the loss of the GT, the loss in displacement for the wrx (still has the horses from the factory but likely not able to be tuned to as high of levels), the way they aren't offering nearly the amount of manual cars, them bringing out the BRZ and not offering a turbo like everyone knows they should, and the fact that the STI hasn't had an engine change for a few decades I'm afraid Subaru is going away from performance vehicles all together....Please don't do it Subaru, you're gonna have a bbaaaddd tiiimmee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I think the 2.0 DIT is a good step for subaru, it is a very potent engine and should surpass the ej25 in power and hopefully reliability, and with a timing chain I hope that means many trouble free miles. Unfortunately I am thinking with the chain being noisier I wonder if it will affect false knock readings in high rpm or under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raybonz Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Be careful what you wish for.. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/02/pros-and-cons-of-direct-injection-engines/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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