hmmrdwn Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Wow Audis got a hit parade going on. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orndog Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Looking at Consumer Report's latest findings, It seems like Subaru was addressing the issue over the past two years and has brought down the oil consumption issues on the FB to levels below that of the EJ which didn't have an oil consumption problem. It's interesting to see some of the other vehicles on the list like the XC70 and all the luxury cars http://static3.consumerreportscdn.org/content/dam/cro/magazine-articles/2015/August/CRM_Page_63_Thirsty_30_08-15.png Notice it says between changes, IIRC a lot of euro cars have a 10k oil interval. Were things actually redesigned and resolved, or is there not enough data for a complete picture for the 2013 and 2014 models? Something was "fixed", which is why I have a new short block. Parents are thinking about a new car and I've been pushing them to a 3.6r Outback. It'd be hard to suggest one if the oil consumption issues weren't resolved. Browse any enthusiast forum for any brand, there is always a vocal group about a certain set of problems. IMO Subaru was and is stepping up to fix theirs, and that makes all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinMA Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Have a 3.6R here, use the paddles a lot every day. I need to put in a quart in between every oil change. I did switch to synthetic but have always had the problem. I also had a bad throttle body as well replaced under warranty. I still love the car. I still think your parents should go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 IMO If I had to add 1 quart per oil change, I would OK with that amount of oil consumption. If I bought a new car and was adding 3 or 4 quarts over an oil change and it technically be in spec, I would be BS. IF the oil consumption increase with mileage, I would be even less happy and likely get of the car much earlier than car that didn't have oil consumption issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I'm 1100 miles overdue for my 3700 mile interval for an oil change on my '05 XT, an engine somewhat well known for burning oil. The "F" mark on the dipstick is still covered in oil... 112,000 miles on it. 1/2 qt I'd expect. 1qt is getting a bit unrealistic. Anything more than that and I'd be quite annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Used to be accepted that an engine was worn out when using oil. Now it's Subarus norm to use oil? Haha! I'm glad our Subaru isn't only of those oil burners. All that excess blow by can't be good on the downline sensor and emissions. I wonder if they will pass emissions as they break in even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Its not just a subaru problem, you just happen to own a subaru with the problem. Honda, toyota, audi, ford...they all have problems with oil burning. As manufacturers push efficiency something has to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Its not just a subaru problem, you just happen to own a subaru with the problem. Honda, toyota, audi, ford...they all have problems with oil burning. As manufacturers push efficiency something has to give. Wrong on a couple points. I don't own a subaru with an oil burning problem. Second, I would have a problem with any manufacturer that tries to say burning a quart of oil every 1200 miles is acceptable. I missed the oil burning is acceptable manufacturing standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Pistons and their rings make imperfect seals, from an engineering standpoint it's expected they will allow oil into the combustion chamber. How much is related to many variables, ring position, cylinder to piston clearance, compression ratio, oil thickness. It's a machine being mass produced there will be defects. And yes I get that it sucks, but it happens that's why there are warranties and consumer protection laws. Edit- ftr you own a legacy and it is known to have an oil drinking problem hence you own a car with the problem. Not saying your's uses oil but it is the same make and model [emoji14] . All automakers basically deal with the same issues. We just don't know about it until we search it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I find it interesting that Honda and Toyota are not anywhere on that list. Acura has switched to 0-20 for all of their engines and my 02 CL-S uses it without issues and 140K on the odometer and I go about 6K on changes I have a 2003 Legacy and it does not use excessive amounts of oil. I never noticed any significant drop between changes and I go about 6K BTW any internal combustion engine burns oil, the question is how much and if it is noticeable to the driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Flegacy, You may not be aware, but only the recent engine variant ( not all of them either), have oil consumption issues. Our legacy doesn't have the new engine and has no oil issues unless driven really hard. Subaru went with looser rings, different tolerances and lighter oils. They have a known problem and are replacing long block engines with short block becuz of it. Subaru also put an article in one of the Drive Magazines that engines use oil and it's normal. Hahaha! Yeah they do....but not a quart every 1200 miles. That's totally unacceptable! That's like saying all cars will have head gasket issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orndog Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Flegacy, You may not be aware, but only the recent engine variant ( not all of them either), have oil consumption issues. Our legacy doesn't have the new engine and has no oil issues unless driven really hard. Subaru went with looser rings, different tolerances and lighter oils. They have a known problem and are replacing long block engines with short block becuz of it. Subaru also put an article in one of the Drive Magazines that engines use oil and it's normal. Hahaha! Yeah they do....but not a quart every 1200 miles. That's totally unacceptable! That's like saying all cars will have head gasket issues. Long block and short block are just different levels of "completeness". Subaru is replacing the short block, meaning they carry over virtually everything outside the block and heads from the old engine to the new short block. The known problem is a production defect that has been corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Long block and short block are just different levels of "completeness". Subaru is replacing the short block, meaning they carry over virtually everything outside the block and heads from the old engine to the new short block. The known problem is a production defect that has been corrected. Defect? It was a manufacturing decision to go with looser rings for less friction and lighter oil. There was no defect...other than the engineering logic. Read all the pre-release press info on the new engine. It describes the problems. There were people here that foresaw the oil burning problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Let me help you... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Honda+oil+consumption+ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=toyota+oil+consumption+ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=audi+oil+consumption+ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ford+oil+consumption+ And so you know the 3.6 has had this issue as well not as widespread but definitely documented on the forum. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Let me help you... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Honda+oil+consumption+ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=toyota+oil+consumption+ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=audi+oil+consumption+ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ford+oil+consumption+ And so you know the 3.6 has had this issue as well not as widespread but definitely documented on the forum. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Your links didn't work...but just cuz other companies have cars that burn oil doesn't make Subarus less painful for Subaru owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 They worked for me, and just tried them again to be sure. So when confronted with evidence of an industry wide problem that you were trying to hang around a single manufacturer's neck you just keep making excuses for your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orndog Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 They worked for me, and just tried them again to be sure. So when confronted with evidence of an industry wide problem that you were trying to hang around a single manufacturer's neck you just keep making excuses for your posts. It's ok, he also thinks Read all the pre-release press info on the new engine. It describes the problems. "Hey, we designed a new engine, here are some problems it will have when it comes out that we'll later address with a TSB". Subaru had a problem with a run of the engines having something to do with the rings, I'm not googling it for him, it has been discussed at length on this very forum. Yes, 0w oil will burn more than a 5w or 10w, and yes low friction designs can also add to this, so yes modern engines whose designs are guided by CAFE needs might just use some oil. When oil usage exceeds an acceptable level some manufacturers, like Subaru, step up and address it - finding why certain engines are doing it and fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 ...Subaru had a problem with a run of the engines having something to do with the rings, I'm not googling it for him, it has been discussed at length on this very forum. Yes, 0w oil will burn more than a 5w or 10w, and yes low friction designs can also add to this, so yes modern engines whose designs are guided by CAFE needs might just use some oil. When oil usage exceeds an acceptable level some manufacturers, like Subaru, step up and address it - finding why certain engines are doing it and fixing it. Service manager to new Forester owner..."Subaru had a problem with a run of the engines having something to do with the rings". We understand your engine is burning a quart every 1200 miles. "0w oil will burn more than a 5w or 10w, and yes low friction designs can also add to this, so yes modern engines whose designs are guided by CAFE needs might just use some oil. When oil usage exceeds an acceptable level some manufacturers, like us, we might step up and address it" if we find your engine is using more than a quart every 1200. Otherwise, it's normal and you just need to add oil. We will be happy to sell you some to keep in your trunk. Oh, by the way, we found there was actually a problem with the rings and are putting teflon on the cylinders too. Sorry about that. Bad production run. All companies experience same thing. Sincerely, Subaru Service manager. Ps. If the resale is too low, bring it in and we'll take it on trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orndog Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Yes, what is your point? All manufacturers are dealing with this to varying degrees. As soon as you're out of warranty switch to a thicker oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Yes, what is your point? All manufacturers are dealing with this to varying degrees. As soon as you're out of warranty switch to a thicker oil. A service manager telling me other car companies are have same oil burning issues doesn't make the customers car not burn oil and is poor way to deal with something. Would you accept your high school kid saying drugs are okay cuz everyone uses them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orndog Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 And mine was out of spec and I got a new short block. Some consumption is to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 And mine was out of spec and I got a new short block. Some consumption is to be expected. It's good to hear they got you a new engine. Family members worked as service managers, parts dealers, etc. They always said that there is nothing like factory parts and spec. Do body work on a car and it hurts the value at trade in. Keep your receipts cuz there isnt any doubt people buying will car will know about the engine probs for those model years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaLegacy Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I've had my 2013 Legacy for about 4 months. Built September 2012 and sold to PO Oct 8, 2012. Based on this build date it is one of the FB25 engines with at risk oil control rings. It had 29,000km (18,000 miles) on it when I got it and I've put about 7500km on it so far with about 500ml or half a liter of oil consumption based on the dipstick reading. This translates to about 1/2 quart in 4,650 miles. So... my observations & question would be........ 1. Engine is using some oil, but it is way off the indicator of 1 qt. per 1,200 miles. 2. The consumer Report table indicates that excessive oil consumption affects only a relatively small percentage of affected engines owners, not all of them. 3. If engine has made it this far in its life with minimal oil consumption does this mean I'm less likely to be affected at some point down the road? Your comments would be appreciated. Other than this oil issue, which I did not know about when I purchased the car, I'm pretty happy with the Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Part of it may be how you drive or the PO got the engine swapped. Part of he problem was loose rings and another was the ring grooves lining up allowing blowby/low compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Tsb. http://allwheeldriveauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Subaru-TSB-02-143-13R.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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