Starlink Head Unit Removal- Schematics

[chithead]

Hoping it was something simple I did wrong. REALLY want to keep the factory head unit, but definitely need to upgrade the amp and speakers.

[SVXdc]

Just tried using the Scosche TA02B and TA02RB harnesses to bypass the factory H/K amplifier, and had sound, but no volume control. I don't see where the head unit is a CAN BUS style that would let the factory amp control volume, but am scratching my head on why the head unit volume control didn't work.

 

2015 models with 7" display and h/k system are doing something different than previous h/k systems.

 

On 2009-2014 models, the HUs still had 4 amplified speaker outputs and sent those to the h/k amp. The amp used those to generate 8 outputs to all of the speakers and subwoofer. The HU still fully controlled balance and fade via its 4 outputs.

 

I don't completely know what's going on electrically, but the 2015 wiring diagram shows:

 

* HU's 10-pin power/speaker connector still connects 4 wires (pins 1, 2, 5, 6, corresponding to front left/right +/- on Toyotas and other Subarus) to h/k amp's input (24-pin)

 

* HU's 6-pin power/speaker connector still connects pins 2 and 6 (12 and 16 on pduncan's "connector A" image) to h/k amp's input. On that diagram, these 2 pins are labeled "Interface box +/-" outputs from HU to the amp. On previous Toyotas & Subarus, those were rear left +/- speaker.

 

* All of the above shielded by a lead that runs between the HU's 6-pin pin #4 (14 on the above diagram) and pins on the h/k amp 24-pin socket. The former was normally not used on Toyotas; it was the 12V power antenna output on 2012-2014 Legacy/Outback PE6xxU1 HUs w/ 4.3" display.

 

* Subaru's wiring diagrams don't show any connections to the other former speaker output pins on the 6-pin (1 and 3, formerly rear right +/-)

 

* 28-pin pins 7 and 8 are a twisted pair to the h/k amp's 24-pin input socket. Obviously that's your amp control signal.

 

* A previously unused pin (28-pin #16) from the HU to h/k amp's 24-pin. Could be amp trigger? pduncan's "connector B" image labels this as "Mute" and designates it's a ground from the HU. () This and pins 7+8 are the only differences the B diagram shows on the 28-pin for non-h/k vs. h/k.

 

* The 7" model actually has 3 pairs of data connections: 7+8 to the h/k amp, 9+10 to car's CAN bus, and 11+12 to A/C Control Panel.

 

* New for 2015-2016: All of the h/k amp's speaker outputs and power leads are via a single 30-pin connector. Unless we're incredibly lucky, it's very unlikely we'll find an aftermarket harness which matches that connector (as we did for 2009-2014 h/k amps).

 

[i know, all of that will be easier to follow when you can see Subaru's diagrams. [s]If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll scan my printed copy and post that.[/s] See tornik's post below, on 9/10.]

 

Also see posts starting here (from thread Upgrading speakers on [2015] premium trim)

 

pduncan's pics show that his HU still has the normal 4 main speaker outputs, and doesn't have wires at 28-pin pins 7+8 or 16 (his car does not have the h/k amp).

Summary:

 

Just a wild guess, but I think the h/k HUs now have only 3 outputs (left, right, and a mono subwoofer), and the amp handles front/rear fade and volume (remote controlled digitally by the HU). The HU may still be handling left/right balance itself (actually varying the levels to its left & right outputs).

 

[EDIT:] I re-read the diagrams pduncan posted. You have to pay attention to the column "Harman AMP". Looks more like the HU only sends the left & right audio signals to the h/k amp, and the amp handles all of the volume and fade functions (and perhaps balance too), as well as segregating the bands to send to the different tweeters/speakers/sub. All of that controlled by the Interface +/- and Communication +/- pins.

 

In any case, it's looking pretty dismal to be able to swap out just the HU or just the amp. It will probably be all or nothing. At best, you may be able to feed the h/k amp's subwoofer output to an aftermarket sub amp + sub speaker.

[SVXdc]

chithead- Which HU model do you have (find the number printed on the front, at the bottom left corner). Is it 7"? Nav?

 

Have you checked (or if not, would you) to see:

 

• If the HU's outputs are speaker level,
  
• Whether the 6-pin's output is only low frequencies (sub), and
  
• If any of them vary at all with the HU's balance and fader controls
  

While you're in there, you might also check if there's still any signal coming out the 6-pin's pins 1 and 3. Or does your car have factory wires there? (if so, can you tell if they go to pins on the h/k amp's 24-pin?) --nevermind; see edits to my previous post.

[chithead]

This is what I found behind the head unit:

 

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk22/chithead1981/2015%20Subaru%20Legacy/IMG_20150904_123220978_zpskwgw6rao.jpg

 

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk22/chithead1981/2015%20Subaru%20Legacy/IMG_20150904_123229523_zpsllzjypwy.jpg

 

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk22/chithead1981/2015%20Subaru%20Legacy/IMG_20150904_123233608_zpssixiaf6g.jpg

[chithead]

And of course, I forgot to get a model number or anything else while it was apart

[chithead]

Did locate the Harman Kardon amplifier under the passenger seat, and found this diagram online to help identify wire colors:

 

Left Front Speaker (+/-) purple - white +,- radio, white 10 pin plug, pins 2 - 6

On models with amplifier, the speaker wires are purple - gray (woofer); red - orange (tweeter) at the amplifier under passenger seat, white 30 pin plug, pins 11 - 26; 13 - 28.

Right Front Speaker (+/-) blue - pink +,- radio, white 10 pin plug, pins 1 - 5

On models with amplifier, the speaker wires are blue - white (woofer); green - brown (tweeter) at the amplifier under passenger seat, white 30 pin plug, pins 12 - 27; 9 - 24.

Left Rear Speaker (+/-) orange - red +,- radio, white 6 pin plug, pins 2 - 6

On models with amplifier, the speaker wires are green - blue at the amplifier under passenger seat, white 30 pin plug, pins 14 - 29.

Right Rear Speaker (+/-) white - yellow +,- radio, white 6 pin plug, pins 1 - 3

On models with amplifier, the speaker wires are brown - white at the amplifier under passenger seat, white 30 pin plug, pins 15 - 30.

Center Channel (+/-) lt. green - yellow +,- amplifier under passenger seat, white 30 pin plug, pins 10 - 25

Subwoofer (+/-) red - green +,- amplifier under passenger seat, white 30 pin plug, pins 8 - 23

 

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk22/chithead1981/2015%20Subaru%20Legacy/IMG_20150904_012014457_zps0zwget8b.jpg

 

Since my amplifier has six inputs of high level capability, it appears I can just move some jumpers over and be fine by tapping the signal from the Harman amplifier.

 

My problem now, will be deciding whether to keep that center channel or not. Really wanted to do a three way active front stage with single subwoofer, but may attempt three point sources in the dash, with large midbass in the front doors, and a single subwoofer. Never played around with a center channel that much, but hear great things from what the JBL MS-8 processor can do with one. The Helix P Six DSP I'll be using doesn't have an auto tune like the JBL, but the factory Harman amplifier is already supplying a center channel signal. Could be fun to mess around with.

[SVXdc]

I was looking for the model number printed on the face.

 

I just made a bunch of edits to my last two posts.

[chithead]

Thank you sir!

 

On the face, it shows FB664UM - 7" non-NAV

[SVXdc]

On the face, it shows FB664UM - 7" non-NAV

 

Thanks.

 

pduncan's non h/k model #s are:

Front: FB644UM

Fujitsu Ten: 138000-4610E101

Subaru: 86201AL64A

Rear: BR64

FCC ID: BABFT0054A

I think your FB664UM is Subaru 86201AL66A.

 

If/when you pull your HU again, could you take good pictures of the entire front, rear (with everything unplugged), and top (w/ mfr's label)?

 

[pin-out of 2015 h/k amp's 30-pin plug he found somewhere online]

 

I've reorganized that into "with h/k" and "non-h/k", and verified against Subaru's 2015 wiring diagrams that I have...

 

Models with h/k amplifier

(speaker wires on car's white 30-pin plug at amp under passenger seat)

 

Viewing socket on h/k amp (or viewing rear of car's plug -- wires pointing towards you):

15 14 13 12 11 10  9  8  7  6  5  4  3  2  1
30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16

Speaker outputs:

8 23  Woofer              RED(-?), GREEN(+?)

9 24  Side Tweeter RIGHT  GREEN(?), BROWN(?)

10 25  Center Tweeter      LIGHT GREEN(-?), YELLOW(+?)

11 26  Front Door LEFT     VIOLET(?), GRAY(?)

12 27  Front Door RIGHT    BLUE(?), WHITE(?)

13 28  Side Tweeter LEFT   RED(?), ORANGE(?)

14 29  Rear Door LEFT      GREEN(?), BLUE(?)

15 30  Rear Door RIGHT     BROWN(?), WHITE(?)

Other pins:

1 16  (two RED leads) +12V Battery (from M/B Fuse No. 34)

3 18  (two BLACK leads) Ground

(Subaru's diagram does not show any other connections to 30-pin plug)

Colors of all of the above speaker wires stay the same from h/k amp to each speaker.

 

You've only shown polarities on two of these speakers. Traditionally on Subaru harnesses, the top row has the positives and the bottom row has the negatives. So I'm skeptical of the polarities that were shown for the woofer and center tweeter on the pin-out site you found.

 

Once again, I think we'll need someone to do polarity tests on all of the speakers to verify.

 

Models without h/k amplifier

(speaker wires on car's 10-pin and 6-pin plugs -- behind HU):

 

[pin-out is same as on Toyotas for more than 20 years]

 

(I'm not bothering to list the factory colors here)

[chithead]

I would be happy to!

[chithead]

Wish there was more information available about the Harman Kardon amplifier, such as power outputs on each channel, any supplied boosts, cuts, what volumes those occur, and the crossover frequencies.

[securityguy]

^^^there is a ton of info on this amp...Just call HK and ask for the lead engineer who designed the Subaru amp;)

[chithead]

Ha, that would be nice. The two Harman people I spoke with were not so knowledgeable. Then gave me the number to Subaru tech support, and well, you already know how that conversation ended.

[tornik]

Here you go - info for FB664UM attached.

 

Attachments with files named 1, 2, 3 are screenshots from wiring pdf file (can sent you over email, could not attach here because more than 250kb is not attachable to the forum).

 

Originally had same problem - while replacing HK amp with aftermarket amp i could not obtain any info from Subaru or HK. Several calls and visits to dealership and emails to techsupports of both companies were not successfull.

I spent couple of months of digging through internet forums to find that info.

 

And yes - I have that weird case when Head Unit is sending only 2 pair of wires to HK amplifier - only for front door speakers.

And yes - I don't have volume control yet from Head Unit - just when making input to Aux, or from bluetooth from the phone - then source device controls the volume. But when playing CD or Radio - no control of the volume. Still to decide what to do furhter...

[chithead]

That is great information! Thank you. I ended up deciding not to use the Helix DSP, even though it has the capability of adding a controller for handling the volume. I believe the Audison BitOne has that ability as well, along with a few other offerings on the market now from Soundstream, PPI, and Mosconi.

 

Ended up going with a JBL MS-8 due to the Logic 7 processing ability and being able to fully utilize the center channel speaker location.

[scrupul0us]

Theres a TSB for the HU's already based on the part number you listed (FB664UM):

 

Service Bulletin # 15-172-14R

 

LABOR DESCRIPTION: AUDIO OR NAVI UNIT REPLACEMENT FOR POPPING SOUND

LABOR OPERATION #: A031-153

FAIL CODE: ZPY-43 (Display Radio)

LABOR TIME: .4

 

Detailed here, more info and part nums:

 

http://oemdtc.com/13506/popping-sound-heard-from-speakers-2015-subaru-legacy-outback

 

Apologies if this is already known info or too tangential from the original conversation

[SVXdc]

Theres a TSB for the HU's already based on the part number you listed (FB664UM):

 

Service Bulletin # 15-172-14R

...

 

That's good to know. People who have that issue might want to get it fixed before making any changes to the audio system (i.e., while there's no question about warranty status).

 

And anyone who hasn't tested for that issue should probably do that, even if you normally don't use your HU for phone calls via Bluetooth.

 

The TSB lists the starting VINs and production dates where updated HUs were already incorporated into the cars.

[tornik]

Wish there was more information available about the Harman Kardon amplifier, such as power outputs on each channel, any supplied boosts, cuts, what volumes those occur, and the crossover frequencies.

 

While I don't have info about power outputs of each channel and frequencies, I can share this:

was measuring voltages of HK outputs to speakers on medium sound levels (~16-20 points on Starlink screen) - it was floating around 150mV - 350mV

Was not sure how this could drive up to 50 watt per channel when listening on bigger volumes.

 

BTW, here are pictures of the inner parts of HK amp (can make more if someone needs). I was trying to reverse engineer it's schematics, and am very disappointed with usage of diode bridges on each stereo channel being amplified (see U1620RG and U1620RG in the center). Apart of the fact that they don't amplify with "High Currents" the analog sound, - they amplify digital signal, which is TDM formatted (see ADC converter on the left - CirrusLogic 5364-DQZ) !!

TDM means Time Division Multiplexing - that analog wave from each channel is cut into little pieces aka "packets" and they are put in sequence into one line\wire. And on another side of the line they catch these sequences of packets and glue them back into several analog lines (see two CirrusLogic DAC chips 4234-ENZ on the right ).

Amplifying TDM signal means you hit transient processes - edges of the packets are "smudged" and after gluing back into one analog signal you don't get smooth wave. That adds "digital noize" that was irritating me a lot in the factory sound system, and irritating in most modern DSPs.

[Subisnob]

Theres a TSB for the HU's already based on the part number you listed (FB664UM):

 

Service Bulletin # 15-172-14R

 

LABOR DESCRIPTION: AUDIO OR NAVI UNIT REPLACEMENT FOR POPPING SOUND

LABOR OPERATION #: A031-153

FAIL CODE: ZPY-43 (Display Radio)

LABOR TIME: .4

 

Detailed here, more info and part nums:

 

http://oemdtc.com/13506/popping-sound-heard-from-speakers-2015-subaru-legacy-outback

 

Apologies if this is already known info or too tangential from the original conversation

 

My radio had popping/cracking that was very pronounced. It only happened on ONE channel. 102.7FM and I suspect it's because of the weak signal in our area for that radio station. Never happened on 103.9 or 106.5 etc. Never happened on Pandora which is all I use now. Good to know there is a TSB on it though, not that it matters since I'll be trading in..haha

[securityguy]

Thought popping TSB only applied to "recorded" audio and not live radio?

[Saltdet]

While I don't have info about power outputs of each channel and frequencies, I can share this:

was measuring voltages of HK outputs to speakers on medium sound levels (~16-20 points on Starlink screen) - it was floating around 150mV - 350mV

Was not sure how this could drive up to 50 watt per channel when listening on bigger volumes.

 

BTW, here are pictures of the inner parts of HK amp (can make more if someone needs). I was trying to reverse engineer it's schematics, and am very disappointed with usage of diode bridges on each stereo channel being amplified (see U1620RG and U1620RG in the center). Apart of the fact that they don't amplify with "High Currents" the analog sound, - they amplify digital signal, which is TDM formatted (see ADC converter on the left - CirrusLogic 5364-DQZ) !!

TDM means Time Division Multiplexing - that analog wave from each channel is cut into little pieces aka "packets" and they are put in sequence into one line\wire. And on another side of the line they catch these sequences of packets and glue them back into several analog lines (see two CirrusLogic DAC chips 4234-ENZ on the right ).

Amplifying TDM signal means you hit transient processes - edges of the packets are "smudged" and after gluing back into one analog signal you don't get smooth wave. That adds "digital noize" that was irritating me a lot in the factory sound system, and irritating in most modern DSPs.

 

So Tornic do you think we got what we paid for? Based on your testing looks

Like we overpaid. I found similar results.

[kvadro]

Sorry for a bit of off-topic. Can you guys point me in a right direction? What's the type of Connector A (Din, ISO, 10-pin, etc.)? I am trying to find it on ebay, but hard to navigate through all this variety of connectors.

Thanks a lot!

[Lithoss]

Sorry for a bit of off-topic. Can you guys point me in a right direction? What's the type of Connector A (Din, ISO, 10-pin, etc.)? I am trying to find it on ebay, but hard to navigate through all this variety of connectors.

Thanks a lot!

I haven't found individual part numbers for the connector and pins themselves, but...

 

I'm 99% sure this is it:

Metra 71-1761

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00029X1KA/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_EDPJwbDXW8SQG

 

I've yet to test it, I have it and will try to install this weekend depending on time...

 

(I used that and a Metra 70-1761 to create an extension that I will splice into for my speaker level inputs to my amp. Unfortunately the 70-1761 is missing a wire so I had to order two and steal a wire to make one complete...)

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[kvadro]

I haven't found individual part numbers for the connector and pins themselves, but...

 

I'm 99% sure this is it:

Metra 71-1761

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00029X1KA/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_EDPJwbDXW8SQG

 

I've yet to test it, I have it and will try to install this weekend depending on time...

 

(I used that and a Metra 70-1761 to create an extension that I will splice into for my speaker level inputs to my amp. Unfortunately the 70-1761 is missing a wire so I had to order two and steal a wire to make one complete...)

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

Thanks a lot mate! This combination of male and female connector for extension is exactly what I was looking for.

[Lithoss]

Thanks a lot mate! This combination of male and female connector for extension is exactly what I was looking for.

 

No problem! Sounds like you're doing the same thing I'm doing.

Don't miss the part where the 70-1761 is missing a wire...