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car veers right after alignments. torque steer? i think not


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2 things i knew before i bought this car used:

1. it needed an alignment

2. it had 3 worn tires and 1 new tire

 

 

replaced all 4 tires, had them mounted/balanced correctly,

got the alignment done at Big o tires...car still veered right...got a refund

got 2nd alignment, same night @ discount tire...car still veered right...got a refund

got 3rd alignment 2 days later at subaru dealership...slight improvement but still veers right.

 

swapped the front tires to see if it would veer left and it still veers right.

 

(by "veers right" i mean if i am going 65mph, and i let go of the steering wheel, i will be in the next lane after traveling about 200-300 feet)

 

it veers to the right under acceleration and deceleration. breaking does not cause it to veer any further. it veers right slightly at slow speeds, more-so at faster speeds (>50mph). it veers right regardless of what lane i am in or how the road crowns. it veers right on bumpy roads and smooth, new roads

 

the tires are continental DWS, inflated to 40psi (to avoid any sidewall issues discussed in this forum)

 

no known suspension issues (using my ears/eyes/feeling of the car)

no known brake issues (had them inspected before buying car)

 

subaru dealership keeps telling me this is just "torque steer", but the fact that it veers right during deceleration makes me think otherwise.

 

am i just over-reacting or is this a concern? if it is, what could it possibly be?

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Torque steer is when you stomp it in a front wheel drive car with unequal length axles and the thing dances to one side or the other. Get it? Torque from acceleration...steer because that acceleration is uneven due to the axle length so the shorter axle side drives a little bit harder and it steers to one side.

 

I second the LCA rear bushings being bad. They are generally unnoticed by almost all Subaru dealers unless they are literally falling apart and most private repair facilities-fuggetaboutit.

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I used to have a 2000 Grand Am GT with a 3.4L V6. While it only put out 175 HP, it had plenty of low end torque, 205 lb/ft. Before that I had an '88 Bonneville with a 3.8L V6 - so I know all about torque steer.

 

Then I got tired of always needing to fix stuff and started buying Subarus. No more torque steer.

Friends don't let friends drink cheap beer.
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Sure the veering isn't just the car following the slope of the road. At first I thought I was having a similar issue, but it seems for the most part that the car has a slight tendency to pull to the right since the road, in most cases around here at least, slopes to the right. See if you can find a road that is 100% flat (maybe middle lane of a highway) and see if you have the same issue.
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Torque steer is when you stomp it in a front wheel drive car with unequal length axles and the thing dances to one side or the other. Get it? Torque from acceleration...steer because that acceleration is uneven due to the axle length so the shorter axle side drives a little bit harder and it steers to one side.

 

I second the LCA rear bushings being bad. They are generally unnoticed by almost all Subaru dealers unless they are literally falling apart and most private repair facilities-fuggetaboutit.

 

 

My 2011 Mitsu Ralliart (turbo), that I owned for 2 seconds, had crazy torque steer and that thing was AWD. Though the AWD did split between 50/50 and I think 90/10 (or something to that effect), so that could be it as well. HAHA

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Does the car tract straight or "wiggle" on a straight section of interstate while you hold the wheel still? If it wiggles a bit and the road is smooth / no wind, then it could be wheel bearing, rear bushing on Front LCA worn, or steering rack bushings. If it tracks fine until you let of the wheel then begins to pull, i'd check right rear wheel bearing (see if it is hotter than left rear after a drive), front right wheel bearing (increased drag on either of these could cause the issue but you may or may not hear / feel vibration also. The alignment seems to be ok after the dealer finished so i don't think it's that.
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It's not torque steer.

 

Looking at your three alignment sheets it appears your rear toe keeps changing. I'd look at replacing at least your bushings. Something there is moving around.

Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine.

"Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"

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Check your lower control arm bushings, they're probably worn/ripped.

 

It's not torque steer, we have AWD, your dealership is clueless.

 

Do check your front LC Arms. Those rear bushings are soft, non-contiguous, and tear at the least provocation.

 

It's not torque steer.

 

Looking at your three alignment sheets it appears your rear toe keeps changing. I'd look at replacing at least your bushings. Something there is moving around.

 

Your rear toes is changing - quite a bit. Camber is also weird since there shouldn't be that much variance unless you have rear camber arms and then both sides should essentially be the same (stock or adjustable). My guess is that the rear lower arm bushing(s) is/are bad and it's allowing the toe to change as the lower control arm shifts. When toe changes to "in", you're going to rotate right.

 

How many miles on your setup?

- Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum -
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I set my suspension to -.75 to -1.0 rear camber, -1.5 front camber, 0* cross-camber and 0* toe front and rear. But I have adjustable rear lower control arms and adjustable toe arms, so I can get toe set to the nat's eyelash. Bushings are also in great shape and working order.
- Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum -
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went back to the dealer and had the GM of service department drive my car with me in it. he definitely noticed it, said we could probably fix it by tweaking the alignment again. i suggested they look a the lower control arm bushings and he said he would look into it, will keep you all posted

 

thanks so much for the help! definitely not torque steer :)

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they said they checked the lower control arm bushings and they were fine, so they slightly adjusted the alignment to where it is still "in tolerance" but right on the limit...but the car tracks straight.

 

hmm...

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Ignore the Subaru alignment "specs". Set the alignment to as much negative front and rear camber as you can get, zero cross-camber, and zero toe front and rear. There is so much variance with factory specs that you can actually have a toe out, toe in on the same axle and just the opposite on the other axle.

 

Take it to a performance alignment shop if you dealer can't give you these specs.

- Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum -
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they ended up tweaking the camber just a bit to balance out the rightward-drift. everything is still within "manufacturer recommended range" (which only works in a perfect world...haha)

 

but most importantly, my car doesn't drift to the right. it tracks perfectly straight. that's all i wanted

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Glad to hear it's tracking better for you. But tweaking the camber, without changing the toe, because they're connected, makes no sense to me. :confused:

 

And, get away from the factory specs - guaranteed to wear your tires and cause poor handling.

- Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum -
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Glad to hear it's tracking better for you. But tweaking the camber, without changing the toe, because they're connected, makes no sense to me. :confused:

Ahem, dealer.

 

While the situation seems to have improved, it doesn't mean bushings aren't effed. I have an '09 that, as far as I know, has never seen snow and has spent its life on smooth flat roads... and I found a torn LCA bushing just a few months ago, with around 55,000 miles.

 

For reference...

Tits mcgee
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they said they checked the bushings, and i trust them. but just in case, what are the signs of a worn bushing? right now my car feels/rides/turns/handles perfectly

 

I would find a performance alignment shop and have them look at it. Dealer adjusted things to make the problem go away. If specs aren't right, you'll be back.

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