Kicker_64 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hey guys. So I can't figure this out. I have the Accessport V3 installed on my legacy and i had stage 2 flashed. After about 1500 miles the turbo blew. I replaced it with another new stock one and put it all back to stock. I flashed the Cobb Stock map and have been running it for awhile now. It runs great at low load/RPM's but when I floor it I get as much as -6 FBK. As far as I understand, this is really bad!? I had the same problem after i replaced the turbo, i left it on stage 2 for awhile but the FBK and FKL were much worse than the stock mode i have now. I'm comfortable driving it under normal conditions but I am paranoid to floor it! Another note is that I can get on it pretty good and build up to 13psi without problems, the problems seem to come above 4000RPM's only. On a side note Im encounting a problem with the oil and coolant levels. The coolant ever so slowly goes down and the oil goes up?? I have a datalog from 3rd gear WOT. The Only mod is a catless uppipe. Any and all help is appreciated!!!Stock -6 FBK.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 When your turbo goes, it usually takes the motor with it. How did the turbo blow, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 I never really determined how or why the turbo went. When i bought the car it came with the turbo rebuilt 12000 miles ago so i figured it'd be all good. So possibly a bad rebuild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 While i was replacing the turbo i removed the Oil Banjo bolt filter and it looked like it was pretty clogged with small particles so it might've been oil starvation but that's just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 While i was replacing the turbo i removed the Oil Banjo bolt filter and it looked like it was pretty clogged with small particles so it might've been oil starvation but that's just a guess. Nope, that's what happened. The rest of those small particles are in your oil cooler and the rest of your oiling system. It's only a matter of time until they make their way to your bearings and take out the motor. Sorry, dude, but, you need a new motor before you need a BOV or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I never really determined how or why the turbo went. When i bought the car it came with the turbo rebuilt 12000 miles ago so i figured it'd be all good. So possibly a bad rebuild? Quite likely. Folks seem to think that because they can crack the case open and fill it back up with a new $300 CHRA from eBay that it's a "rebuild", but, it's not that simple -- there's alot going on in that little snail! For something that spins nearly 100k RPMs, it's not very forgiving, in terms of mechanical tolerances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Damn...so the FBK is because the bad motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Damn...so the FBK is because the bad motor? Unless you put in 87 the last time you filled up. That means it's pulling 6degrees of timing. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 In addition to the FBK I noticed a sort if shallow knock in the front of the engine. Only noticeable at idle. I took it to a mechanic and he told me that it was just injectors but i don't know about that. Plus when I'm at a stop sign and I pull up behind some, like hit the gas a little and let off right away, the car shudders a few times and drops the rpms for a second or two. Tranny problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 No I always put in 91 with no ethanol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 OK, I actually looked at your log -- It's sensing knock over 12psi, (coming in about 13ish), and pulling back there. There also appears to be a slight tick in your revs, about 20 to 25 revs during those events, as well, so your knock sensor is certainly pulling everything back like it's supposed to. Thing is, it's also putting the timing back, which is crucial to the process as well. So when it removes timing, you also want to see that it's incrementally putting it back, which, if you look at the column, it pulls six and then gradually puts back 6 as you get back out of boost -- does that make sense? And there's no FLKC, which is good. Has that always remained zero? So while I would definitely keep in mind that you WILL need a new motor at some point (keep a VERY close eye on your oil consumption), this looks to be more of a tuning issue. MOD(s), can we move this to the Tuning section where the likes of NSFW might see it and be able to offer some sage advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviman Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Well it's called knock correction for a reason, it's triggered by the knock sensor. It could be a rod knock that's getting picked up under load. Could be a lot of things. MrTris here likes to tell everyone to get a new motor, next he'll point you to his shopping list . But he has a point, you should be open to that possibility. IMO you dont know nearly enough to make a call on what it is, nor would it be particularly easy to diagnose via the internet. If it's making a sound you can hear, it's probably fairly serious. Unless it's an exhaust leak, those can cause knocking sounds. I'd check that first. Edit: just saw new post from mrtris. Good to hear it's a tuning issue possibly. Ots maps aren't the greatest, and neither is stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yeah that makes sense. Just scared to see those numbers. FKLC has always been at 0 on stock mode but I saw some on stage 2 earlier. No problems there now. See that's weird though cause it's not consuming oil, the oil level is going up. Yeah we can move it. Can u move it or do I have to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I think if you posted it, you can move it. If not, Boxkita or BarManBean would be happy to help flex their newfound mod muscles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Okay cool. Yeah I'm not really wanting to have to pay for a new engine but if that's the problem then I guess it has to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yeah I don't see the option to move it anywhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 As for the knock sound I don't think that should be too bad cause I talked to a mechanic who's owned tons of subaru a and he said it sounded normal. I know I have a leak somewhere on the upipe so it is a little louder than normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I'm not totally familiar with COBB's terminology so bear with me a moment. In your log you are at 14.54psi MRP @ 3996. In the stock map (A2WF200C) the boost target for 95% throttle at 4k0rpm is 12.96psi. This overboost condition continues until about 4k4rpm. If I read the COBB log column labels correctly, 'TD Boost error' is what in Opensource we call 'boost error'. A negative number shows the value is higher than target, positive number is below target. If you look at your WGDC you see you're at about 37% at WOT and 4k0rpm, where the initial values in the ROM call for 47%. So, you're 1.58psi above your boost target but used 10% less WGDC to get there. In a lot of the ROMs, Subaru's logic pulls timing under these conditions to protect the engine from knock before it actually occurs. It's entirely normal to have FBKC during overboost. I looks to me like you're running a stock map on a car with an aftermarket downpipe, stiffer than stock wastegate actuator, wrong boost pill, 3-actuator instead of stock, or some combination of those factors. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I'm not totally familiar with COBB's terminology so bear with me a moment. In your log you are at 14.54psi MRP @ 3996. In the stock map (A2WF200C) the boost target for 95% throttle at 4k0rpm is 12.96psi. This overboost condition continues until about 4k4rpm. If I read the COBB log column labels correctly, 'TD Boost error' is what in Opensource we call 'boost error'. A negative number shows the value is higher than target, positive number is below target. If you look at your WGDC you see you're at about 37% at WOT and 4k0rpm, where the initial values in the ROM call for 47%. So, you're 1.58psi above your boost target but used 10% less WGDC to get there. In a lot of the ROMs, Subaru's logic pulls timing under these conditions to protect the engine from knock before it actually occurs. It's entirely normal to have FBKC during overboost. I looks to me like you're running a stock map on a car with an aftermarket downpipe, stiffer than stock wastegate actuator, wrong boost pill, 3-actuator instead of stock, or some combination of those factors. After I looked at the logs, this was the explanation I was looking for, but, didn't quite know how to put it. I know enough that when it pulls timing it's supposed to put it back, but the other factors, I didn't know. So the short answer is, he needs a new tune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yeah that makes sense. I installed a turbo that is by JM turbo. It is the same specs as a stock IHI turbo. I even used the wastegate actuator from my old blown turbo. Also using the stock boost pill. I don't have an aftermarket downpipe so I can rule that out. I'm thinking that the JM turbo is maybe just a little different and causing it to overboost. What should I try to lower the boost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Cheese and Rice! I just checked their website, they're claiming a $490 brand new vf52! Which one are you running? The RHF5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Vf40 RHF5H same specs as subarus stock IHI vf40. I paid $340. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Do you think that it's an okay turbo? Decent brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I don't know anything this replacement turbo to form an opinion from. If you have the stock turbo, actuator and pill, you should be at the stock boost level. The only good reason I can think of that you'd be over that target with 10% less WGDC than mapped is if you had a downpipe or gutted cats. Question. Were you running a stage 2 map previous to this on a stock downpipe? Are you sure the stock cat is intact? Please note I am not saying your problem is for sure due to this. It's just something that jumps out at me from the data I have. If you have the means to do so, you could raise your boost targets in that area to reflect the reality, and see if FBKC then goes away. I do not believe your problems are noise related as that usually shows up in FLKC, as does 'real' knock. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker_64 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 I was running stage 2 previously but that was with an invidia high flow catted dp. Stock exhaust though. I don't really know how to raise the boost targets other than a new tune. Right? Cause I could run a protune on a stock setup right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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