CloudSeed777 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 In the middle of my build for peppy DD. You can see my build thread somewhere under 4th Gen Legacy. Here's my .02 cents. Unless you plan on doing forged internals, or have your heart set on specific pistons/rods, etc - save yourself some TIME and SANITY by getting a factory short block. I did the short block myself (I saved about $500 doing so - I got JDM OEM pistons and Scat performance rods), and probably would have been driving my car WEEKS ago if I had just gotten the short block from Subaru. The machine shop had my engine for 3-1/2 weeks and like a lot of people in this game, they weren't big on communication, like they hold some sort of patent on the info. If you do build your own, find a machine shop that knows Subaru engines (mine came highly suggested by another builder), and secondly someone who COMMUNICATES and doesn't mind answering questions and sharing the expertise they have while not making you feel like some sort of degenerate. IMO that's why they get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Oops forgot about wheel bearings. total junk. Tried every brand. Run the front ducts to the bearings. My fronts would be junk after the first session. Interesting, so the car cooks the bearing grease and they go toast. Do Subaru's just have poor bearing ventilation in general hence common wheel bearing issues? I know that factory bearings have issues because they were subpar, but since your saying you've tried all brands, wonder if it's a design flaw. How where your grounds too btw? 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Interesting, so the car cooks the bearing grease and they go toast. Do Subaru's just have poor bearing ventilation in general hence common wheel bearing issues? I know that factory bearings have issues because they were subpar, but since your saying you've tried all brands, wonder if it's a design flaw. The sti design is different and doesn't have this problem. There is no airflow into the bearing area. Also, someone split one open and found plastic pieces and substandard grease. My suspension guy postulated we could get an OEM set and send it out for conversion to race spec - polishing, better grease, etc. We never did, as I ran out of courage (1st) and money (2nd). How where your grounds too btw? huh? Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Rattsl: I'll throw in my $.02... A good DD makes a good AutoX car and a passable HPDE track car. A good track car makes a good auto x car in a higher class and a barely passable DD. Neither a DD, or track car make a good race car, and a race car in no shape or form makes a passable DD. Some high end modded AutoX cars make good race cars but there are many setup changes switching back and forth. And at that level they are not DD. When you say track I think you mean road race type track and not drag strip? Going with an Auto tranny: Stop now, sell the car, and get a manual LGT. Or decide the DD is the MOST important value and build accordingly with a low level of mods. Otherwise you will be creating a lot of expensive frustration. There is no comparison between running a road race type track in a auto vs a manual. So assuming you want a car that is a decent DD, is competitive at AutoX, and a fun track car (but not a race car), it's possible. The best way is to select an AutoX class you want to participate in and build EXACTLY to meet those specs. I have seen a ton of enthusiasts build first, then discover that one mod was what threw them out of being in a competitive class into a much tougher class where they are the perpetual slowest car. And now it's expensive to undo the one mod, so to be competitive they have to do a ton more mods! In summary: Plan first, pick your motor sport type and class, and THEN mod. IMHO if you are keeping the auto tranny, stay in the most stock type autox class and limit your expenses/mods. You'll have fun, the DD will be comfortable, and your wallet will have something in it for post race dinners. And enjoy your LGT! Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattsl Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well said Gator. I know a full track car is expensive. I am 100 percent aware. AutoX would be the main goal. Dd is the other main goal seeing as I am doing a ton of repairs lately to rid of worn items so I don't have to worry about them breaking later. I may end up doing tie rods next, and rear camber bolts to get rid of the horrible camber setting I currently have which limits my turning abilities. Steering wheel us still shaking, but the solid Perrin endlinks really helped stiffen the front wnd and eliminate a suspension clunk I used to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Be aware even something as simple as bushings can throw you into a much more expensive class in AutoX. For example you are out of Stock just by the bushings. That's why I'm strongly saying to read the rules and pick a class. Back in my AutoX days I had a document that detailed all the mods allowed in each class I intended to possibly compete in so I could plot how much it would cost to be competitive in each class. I started in E Street Prepared, then later switched to Super Stock. SS was much cheaper, the car was almost stock so it drove as a DD perfectly, and if I ever sell my SS car I won't have wasted money I'll never get back on mods. Here's the sheet, but it's years out of date. You'll have to look up all the 2015 SCCA rules and edit the sheet to make it usable: SCCA Modifications . On the left click File, then Save As to download it. Good luck and have fun, motorsports is a blast! Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattsl Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 How where your grounds too btw? huh? Just curious on if you regrounded the engine, trans and rear diff. I've heard some very compelling theories that say that bad grounds could lead to accelerated bearing wear. Basically with a bad/no ground electricity travels through the bearings and overheats the grease which leads to eventual leads to bearing failure. This would also explain our throw out bearing accelerated wear too. Subaru's tend to loose rear wheel bearings the most, rear bearings are not exposed to as much heat as the front ones, thus lack of grounds on the differential could explain the accelerated wear. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc6 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Just curious on if you regrounded the engine, trans and rear diff. I've heard some very compelling theories that say that bad grounds could lead to accelerated bearing wear. Basically with a bad/no ground electricity travels through the bearings and overheats the grease which leads to eventual leads to bearing failure. This would also explain our throw out bearing accelerated wear too. Subaru's tend to loose rear wheel bearings the most, rear bearings are not exposed to as much heat as the front ones, thus lack of grounds on the differential could explain the accelerated wear. What do we have to lose by grounding the rear dif besides making the wire too short? 2005 Satin White Pearl Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Unlimited 5EAT (Project Car) 2019 Agate Black Ford Explorer XLT 4WD (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Just curious on if you regrounded the engine, trans and rear diff. I've heard some very compelling theories that say that bad grounds could lead to accelerated bearing wear. Basically with a bad/no ground electricity travels through the bearings and overheats the grease which leads to eventual leads to bearing failure. This would also explain our throw out bearing accelerated wear too. Subaru's tend to loose rear wheel bearings the most, rear bearings are not exposed to as much heat as the front ones, thus lack of grounds on the differential could explain the accelerated wear. this is the dumbest thing i've ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Be aware even something as simple as bushings can throw you into a much more expensive class in AutoX. For example you are out of Stock just by the bushings. That's why I'm strongly saying to read the rules and pick a class. Back in my AutoX days I had a document that detailed all the mods allowed in each class I intended to possibly compete in so I could plot how much it would cost to be competitive in each class. I started in E Street Prepared, then later switched to Super Stock. SS was much cheaper, the car was almost stock so it drove as a DD perfectly, and if I ever sell my SS car I won't have wasted money I'll never get back on mods. Here's the sheet, but it's years out of date. You'll have to look up all the 2015 SCCA rules and edit the sheet to make it usable: SCCA Modifications . On the left click File, then Save As to download it. Good luck and have fun, motorsports is a blast! Currently the OP is in ESP class. as soon as he does a FMIC or a turbo upgrade, it puts him in Street Modified(SM). He is already at a severe disadvantage with the 5eat in ESP since ther are no front diff upgrade options and he has no plans to buy r-comps. In SM, he'll get destroyed by any reasonable competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 SCCA Modifications Be careful with sheets like this. They get outdated almost every year, sometimes in the middle of the year and most of the allowed mods have caveats. I already see issues with it...turbo cars can't alter boost maps in Touring, but you wouldn't know by looking at this sheet. Street and Touring classes are both limited to tires with treadwear values 200 or higher. I know this is a moot point, but technically a switching to a FMIC in SP is legal, BUT I haven't seen one yet that you don't have to trim any of the bumper or bumper beam, and that's what puts you into SM. A few years ago you could do some trimming and stay in SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 this is the dumbest thing i've ever heard. I'm there with you, I laughed at it when I first heard about it too. Lets take this chat to a different thread where I just posted the information that I found about bad grounds causing bearing failure: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bad-grounds-can-lead-wheel-bearing-failure-234672.html 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Currently the OP is in ESP class. as soon as he does a FMIC or a turbo upgrade, it puts him in Street Modified(SM). He is already at a severe disadvantage with the 5eat in ESP since ther are no front diff upgrade options and he has no plans to buy r-comps. In SM, he'll get destroyed by any reasonable competitor. I showed up for my one & only Autox, where I was classed as SM. Running against a highly modified Cadillac on slicks, it was no contest. Build your car for fun. If you are serious about autox, get a car that is a serious competitor. The labor of love part loses its luster when you realize losing just sucks. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 FWIW, the legacy can be competitive. Ask me how i know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 FWIW, the legacy can be competitive. Ask me how i know.... Special case. How many mods did you do? Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 i did the right ones , but was no where near fully prepped (what i consider fully prepped anyways) for ESP. i had nearly no weight reduction mods or fender cutting to fit 285 wide r-comps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Wasn't that where XenonK was at? trying to fit 285's on his LGT? Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Be careful with sheets like this. They get outdated almost every year, sometimes in the middle of the year and most of the allowed mods have caveats. I already see issues with it...turbo cars can't alter boost maps in Touring, but you wouldn't know by looking at this sheet. Street and Touring classes are both limited to tires with treadwear values 200 or higher. Exactly why I said it's out of date and has to be edited with the latest rule changes. It was meant as a format, a place to start, not as being an accurate representation of 2014 or 2015 rules. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 if you can find a ProcessWest TMIC with its splitter, that's the top of the line TMIC. PW TMIC for sale - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-va-process-west-tmic-w-ltg-obxt-splitter-234597.html Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I preferred the stock tmic over my Perrin tmic for AX. The Perrin would still be HOT as I got to my next run...and that was with cooling it with ice water, coated and wrapped headers, wrapped up and down pipes, a PTP turbo blanket, and GS heat shield. The stock tmic dissipated heat much more quickly and the throttle response was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The one day I did of autox with the PW, it didn't start getting heat-soaked until end of day. Granted this is Seattle, so hot day is 75 degrees. On track days, as long as going at least 35mph, the PW would stay cool. That was also the magic number to keep the engine from overheating and allowing brakes to cool down. Anything less, and everything stayed hot. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Wasn't that where XenonK was at? trying to fit 285's on his LGT? yes. In street prepared, you are allows to hack your fender and add flares for tire fitment. I got up to fitting 255 wide hoosier A6's on a 8.5" wide rim with a fender pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattsl Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 If anything, I'll look into 245 wide tires, but I gotta find the right offset for that size. I've thought about 18x8 +45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 18x8.5 +48 is best for that. trust me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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