Rattsl's 05LGT Build thread (AutoX, track, yet good for daily)

[Rattsl]

Bought this thing back in 2012, and I was excited just to have my first car (having owned only trucks) and realized how quick this was compared to everything else I have owned. I felt like I could take it on some roads and carve corners. So, I decided to build it for that reason, and I have a very long way to go before I can take it to the track for a full race, but I'm starting from ground zero, so might as well record my progress.

 

05 Legacy GT Limited.

 

Current power mods

 

Agency Power catless up pipe

Invidia Divorced downpipe

FMS catback with Vibrant quiet resonator

Grimmspeed EBCS

 

At stock power, only pulled 190whp and no idea on torque.

 

Currently putting out 230whp/320wtq on a unmodded 5EAT.

 

The 1st and 2nd gear pulls feel very nice, but top end on 3rd feel slow and 4th and 5th feel slow unless you're doing a 75mph pull on 5th and the torque helps out a bit.

 

Stock VF40 is tuned for 18psi.

 

Handling mods include:

 

Koni yellow shocks

Swift Racing springs

Cusco Rear 21mm solid sway bar

AVO stabilizer bar brace

Kartboy rear endlinks

Energy Sway bar bushings front and back

 

 

 

All feels ok, but I'm starting to replace bushings all over to look for a good comfortable ride and reduce noises in the cabin.

 

 

 

 

Feel free to add opinions and ideas to this. My goal with this car is to have it built for the track (not to win, to have fun and be competitive) yet be able to drive to the store and back without issues.

 

 

Next mods will be, and no limited to:

 

 

Power-

 

20G turbo (uncertain which)

FMIC (still uncertain)

supporting engine mods like injectors, catchcan, etc.

 

Will be happy with 300+whp, but goal would be 400whp.

 

 

 

Suspension, wheels, brakes-

 

Cusco front and rear support braces

Camber plates

Front solid endlinks

Replace all worn bushings

Hawk HPS pads

Stoptech rotors

Stainless lines and beter fluid

More to list.

 

 

 

 

 

Seeing as this will be a long project, updates will not be often, but feel free to add advice or opinions.

[keenster]

Good luck with your build. Sub'd because I love build threads.

As far as fmic... RacerX is an awesome fit and 650 shipped

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131072

 

Few things here I'll bring up that others might thrash you on. Track and autocross are two different styles. For autoX a 20g would just hold you back. Track yeah it would be awesome. In fact if you don't upgrade almost every major component, the 20g is yet to unleash the full super sayian power.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178684

 

Track car and reliable DD is contradicting in ways.

 

If you go with an 18g and you like quick spooling, you won't have to change up internals and play that game of risk. 300hp is fast 400hp is where you start losing some reliability.

 

I would start reading build threads. As if it's a series of R.L. Stein books

 

I'm not here to bust your balls. I hope you can build a fun/reliable car for track/autoX/grocery getter, just plan on spending that dough!

[Rattsl]

Ideally autox since it's less expensive. I've been on a ball about turbos. I do like quick spool, and I know the 20G wouldn't be as nice on short bursts, but I stay on highways a lot of the time, so that high rpm boost would be nice. However I'm not opposed to a 18g using a front mount. I'll take a look at the one you posted. Given luck of finding a VF52 on the cheap would be nice. Clean and rebuilt, I'd say that's a good stock location turbo upgrade for a great price. As far as what you're saying, I do agree that on stock internals, 400whp is a bit risky, which is why I mentioned I'd be happy with 300whp.

 

The main area I need guidance would be trans upgrades (VB Mods, coolers, etc) and catchcan, air/oil seperators.

 

As far as I have seen from other builds, turbo upgrade, IC upgrades, and afformentioned turbo supporting mods to reach those power levels.

[MrTris]

Sub'd, because I also love build threads.

[keenster]

I'm working on modding my aos since its sucks and it doesn't work. But I do believe I can make it work. I'll start a thread on that later.

I just bought some used center diff bushing from a member. It replaces the needle bearing in the planetary gears thus making the center diff less prone to exploding.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122946

 

The trans cooler might be okay for you since you want to do autoX stuff. But the key here is not cooling the tranny fluid but keeping it at a regulated temp. It's debated where you put it, before or after the radiator.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221643

 

Also MRTris is running a modded vf-40 that he loves, modded by a member here.

 

VB, yes, do it. It's basically a must.

[Rattsl]

Thanks guys. I see a lot of build threads as well. Some big drag monsters like Doogie and Grimlins, but both of them are above 550whp and that range is just a tad above my range. I'd get a V8 if I wanted that power, considering how simple it'll be.

 

I'll make a detailed parts list in a couple and post it up and opinions are welcome. I have very thick skin, so you can be honest.

[keenster]

I like wasp build

Tris build

Turkeylord build

And I'm following a few other right now. Basically you can learn more than you need. But there are a lot of tips and tricks In these builds that you might have questions on later.

[Rattsl]

I like wasp build

Tris build

Turkeylord build

And I'm following a few other right now. Basically you can learn more than you need. But there are a lot of tips and tricks In these builds that you might have questions on later.

 

 

Check out Grimlins build.http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/grimlins-09-specb-122196.html

[Max Capacity]

I was going to say you should stop by there shop.

 

Tony Palo is in Plano TX, he has a AWD dyno too. He's a great tuner.

[Rattsl]

I was going to say you should stop by there shop.

 

Tony Palo is in Plano TX, he has a AWD dyno too. He's a great tuner.

 

 

Grimlin is my tuner, well, her husband is. That's her Spec B. Pretty much the only place that I trust taking my car. She's helping me with the build. Right now, I'm researching intercoolers. Difference between FMIC and TMIC are pretty clear, but the price gap/bumper cutting is something I'm looking into. FMIC's are always going to be cooler (in both aesthetics and physically temperature wise) seeing as it doesn't sit above the turbo. TMIC's have the scoop and aftermarket splitters available and a turbo cooling duct was just created by some company that gets the advantage of using the scoop to provide cool air towards the turbo and also create a better heatshield for TMIC's. That said, I'll be running pump 93 oct and power goals with TMIC's will be harder no matter how you look at it. This build, like many others isn't easy, but I can always be optimistic.

[keenster]

RacerX, biggest bang for your buck for front mount

[Leviman]

Other thing go consider with a tmic, is that youre sending air into the engine bay, which could cause lift in the front end. Probably not a big issue, but I'm no aero expert.

[Rattsl]

Other thing go consider with a tmic, is that youre sending air into the engine bay, which could cause lift in the front end. Probably not a big issue, but I'm no aero expert.

 

 

I'm not 100% sure I'm getting what you mean, but air into the engine bay isn't a bad thing necessarily, considering it'll cool down ambient temperatures. If we're also talking aerodynamics, I also have a few ideas that I'll be doing that I'm still working on to get the bottom of the car a bit more smooth aerodynamically, and something for the front end to keep the nose down. Not that the car is some damn 800whp time attack machine, but...I like that 0.001% percent gain. :lol:

[MrTris]

. . but...I like that 0.001% percent gain. :lol:

 

Have you met Dustin Songer?

[Specbwee]

Ok. So. Its hard to jumble all 3 of those things into one build. As it all can be done but depending on witch way you go one will out way the other more. Like was mentioned earlier auto x with a 20g turbo will make things interesting. (like waiting for the turbo to kick in around a corner then, wtf I'm facing the wrong direction.)

 

But if it was me personally looking to do all those things, I was very happy with the set up I had before I took out a ring.

 

Perrin top mount.

VF-52

Down pipe

Methanol injection (With a failsafe!) or e85

A good tune

 

279hp and 311tq at a conservative 18psi tune. This was done on the mustang dyno of broken dreams lol. Could have turned up the turbo to 21psi. I can say pretty comfortably if the car had been tuned that way I could have achieved 320hp and 320tq.

 

Also, methanol is easy to come by up here cause I can use a -40 wiper washer fluid. Don't know how comfortable you are with mixing distilled water and rubbing alcohol, but a way around all that is using e85 if its available.

 

There are other options I have heard of like going ewg for extra spool on the vf-52. Also el headers make the magic. 650cc injectors and fuel pump would help as well.

 

Finally if your looking to get to 400hp I wouldn't recommend doing so without building your engine. It defiantly can be done but punching holes or bending things or spinning bearings never ends well.

 

In the end your gonna do what you want. I'm not saying what I did is right or the best way, but I know I liked it.

[Rattsl]

Realistically, 300whp would be what I'm shooting for right now.

[keenster]

Maybe a number isn't what you should shoot for but how well all your mods will work together. Let's say you have a 20g and you're on stock injectors. Well then you would be leaving power on the table making the turbo a waste of money.

Okay so you upgrade your injectors now. You're now feeling good thinking all is groovy. Well the flow to the injectors is now maxed out. Now we need a fuel pump. Kind of see where I'm going? So if you plan your build to work in harmony and do the mods that keep the engine from detonation, the numbers will come and also become less important because you now have a great working car that is fast.

 

 

Once you know what you want exactly, then research the hell out of the brands and different parts that you want.

 

Read wiki turbo with a twist. It helps put a number or stage with mods.

 

Things I highly recommend. As well as many others would too.

Killer B oil pick up

Infamous filtered oil feed line

A good tune

 

I hope this all makes sense

Just trying to help you keep your head straight, Instead of reading another shot engine due to or lack there of important info.

[Rattsl]

Thanks man. I'll see what will happen. I'm still pricing and piecing things together, but I know what you mean by parts working in harmony.

[boxkita]

AutoX or Track or Racecar? Depends on what you want as to how you should build your car. If you have not done any of them, I'd suggest taking the car as is to the tracks you will be driving the car on. Get a baseline for what works and what doesn't.

 

This thread is a good one for the basics of motorsport - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/amateur-motorsports-and-you-can-get-involved-you-legacy-199487.html

 

If you are into Autox, check out whitetiger & stoplight assasin threads. Both were national level drivers with LGTs.

 

If you are into racecar, check out bob-e & sgt.gator. They both own the only actual LGT racecars (fully caged, raced in IMSA series).

 

If you are into track days, fpperon, frankster, losangleslgt, azpinstalls, boxkita, all had cars that were more than a match for a typical track session.

 

If you are into DD plus other things, you're probably on the right path.

[Rattsl]

DD and AutoX with maybe one or two days at a track, at the most. Pretty much why I'm looking for a reliable setup. I do realize my engine is getting worn and tired, so thats a good reason I'm planning to do all this. Might as well add all these mods when it's time to replace.

[boxkita]

If you want a lapping car or autox car, you want to start thinking about whether you will be competing or just running laps. If competing in autox, you are very limited to what you can do (whitetiger & stoplight assasin can help you).

 

If you want to do lapping, you should be more concerned with longevity at high rpms than which turbo to run. It doesn't take much to be fast on the track, however, you still have to be running at the end of the day. That comes from overbuilding everything. Every time you think that's good enough, figure you'll be fixing that at the track or after the wrecker tows it home.

 

You want to build your torque curve so you are always in the power band, not waiting for boost. If your torque curve looks like a triangle, you're going to get passed on every corner by a Miata. If it looks like a table, you'll pass the Miata once and never see it again.

 

Suspension components and tuning are going to have a huge effect on how well your car handles at speed and in corners. You can spend $1000's of dollars on top-end components, however, if you don't do the setup/corner balance/test/repeat; you'll still be slow. Find a shop that does sports car suspension tuning. Expect to spend $500 for a corner balance...several times.

 

Tires! I hope you have a budget that thinks tires are like gas ...consumable. If you are fast, you can expect 2 - 4 days per set of tires. Dunlop Dirrezza, BFG R1, Hoosier R6/A6, Michelin SuperSport/SportCup are going to be burning up your credit card.

 

Brakes! I hope you have a budget that thinks brakes pads/disks are like gas ...consumable. If you are fast, you can expect 2 - 4 days per set of pads, and double that for disks. Using front air ducts to the disks/calipers will cut temperatures in half. Check out pegasus racing/summit racing/etc for brake ducting (4inch heat resistant tubing)

 

Gas! Tracking a LGT burns gas. Expect to average 5-7mpg. If you are slow or only autox, maybe 10mpg. If running pump gas, find a place that uses 93 octane with no ethanol. If you are lapping on a hot day (or any day in TX), get 100 octane as close to event day as possible (suggest VP - http://www.vpracingfuels.com/master-fuels-table) Mix it in with your pure 93 octane to boost it. Don't tune for this boosted octane, tune for 92. The increase in octane helps with detonation. Use this chart to determine mix rates (calculator/chart). Buy a couple of 5 gallon gas jugs and keep the 100 octane in them, or mix at the pump.

 

AOS (air/oil seperator) - grimmspeed's solution causes vapor lock. Crawford v2 works well. The catch can is overkill, however, it looks cool.

 

Oil! Another consumable. Change before track day/weekend. Get a deep pan (moroso or killerb). Run a thicker oil made for higher temp loads. Check before/after every session. Bring enough oil to fill your car twice.

 

Towing! Get a AAA premium membership. If you go lapping enough, you'll be coming home on a flatbed at some point. Cheap insurance. Has discounts for most hotels that are near tracks.

 

Radiator - invest in an upgraded radiator. 3 cores. Remove your ac system. You want as much air flowing thru the radiator as possible. Use distilled water with water wetter. Anti-freeze on a race track ruins everyone's day as its really slick and takes forever to dry.

 

Safety gear - if nothing else, invest in a good pair of fire resistant shoes and gloves. Get the latest Snell rating for your helmet. SA-2015 are coming out soon (Jan 2015). Be sure it fits well, snug but not tight. Get a balaclava (the head sock, not the pastry); its fire safe and keeps your helmet from getting sweaty. Wear cotton or other material that doesn't melt when exposed to flame.

 

Engine - yeah, that needs to work. However, unless your's is trashed, it will work for awhile. With an automatic, your max rpm is limited unless you start making mods. Even then, you can tune your torque curve to match your transmission's shift pattern. Less is more until it's time to create a race motor.

 

FMIC is more hassle than TMIC. TMIC has shortest path to intake & turbo. FMIC has a bigger cooling surface. Decide which is more important. In general, both are useless until going more than 35 mph. LGT radiator is not cooling until 35 mph, either.

 

Lastly, for what ever endeavor you are building your car, be sure you are talking with ppl who do that activity alot. Not just drivers, but shops that support those drivers. You'll find out real quick which shops are good for which things. In general, there's a reason that is so.

[Max Capacity]

Have you thought about some type of locking front diff ? Wouldn't that be better for the road course ?

[Rattsl]

Awesome info Boxkita. Very informative indeed. Grimlin is my tuner and her car is usually the one that is used as a base for testing. Currently it puts out 550+ on a low boost map and near 620whp on her high boost map. I get a lot of my power info from them and as far as suspension goes, that is something I am currently researching almost everyday and considering how far I drive, I can tell where the car needs work. Engine wise, transmission wise, and suspension wise, I feel where I need improvements. I have taken it to a lot and ripped around corners and islands and I could feel where I would be able to improve.

 

Brakes are an area that needs A LOT of improvement. I intend on running Hawk HPS pads (don't need tons of power for dailying) but I'm doing a full rotor swap as well, and I'm thinking blanks. So, as far as I know...

 

Hawk HPS pads

Centric Blank rotors

Stoptech stainless lines

new fluid (high temp or....?)

Grimmspeed brake brace

 

 

Not sure what can be done to the OEM calipers, unless I upgrade to STI Brembos, in which I'll have to get new wheels, but that's a different story.

[keenster]

The LGT calipers are good. Get stainless steel brake lines and I see you put that master cylinder brace on your list as well. Good upgrades there. Now get a good set of pads and rotors and you'll be fine.

 

Jmp just told me about a company that rebuilds them better called centric. Painted and he said the paint holds up well. And I would say I he recommends them then they are great

 

Max is there any cheaper solution than a $2000 front lsd made to order from climberD's shop?

 

I'm researching that now

[Rattsl]

Talking about locking diffs for cornering? For example, cornering, inside wheels are going slower than outside wheels, so come close to diff lock and match wheel speeds for outside and inside wheels?

 

Sounds like a lot of trans work.