rfd425 Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 I still hear the occasional whisper that the twin-turbo H6 with 6-spd is coming in mid-2006 as a 2007 model. It'll most likely come with the lovely airplane grille. Looks like they're giving us the hardware we really, really want only if we accept the new grille. Ugh! I'll believe it when I see it, but if they do it, and keep it under $40K and ~3500 lbs., all those guys that paid $50K for an S4 will feel pretty stupid (probably not, actually, but they should). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfd425 Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 $34,032 to 'build it yourself' Spec.B Sure, but that's making some assumptions. How many people pay MSRP for their LGT Limiteds? Someone on here recently got an '06 for invoice ($27.2K), and a couple guys have recently gotten new '05's for low $25's. Your numbers don't take into account the fact that the "builder" will still have the stock wheels & suspension, which have value (the Spec B buyer will need winter tires, preferably on different wheels, if he lives in the snow belt). Of course, the "built-yourself" model won't be a true Spec B. If that's the exact suspension, wheels and tires that you want, and if you want nav., and you like the unique interior bits and the fact that it's a very limited edition, then I guess $34K is reasonable. It's definitely a cool car and a notch above a regular LGT ltd., and I'll be envious of anyone who gets one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I think I have my wife on board, if we can afford the payments once it is known. At 31-32k, it might work, at 34-35k, it may not. I need to get my truck paid down more, and trade it. I hope to get at least $6-7k of positive equity from that, and a 10-20% down payment. Either we stretch for the GT Spec B, hopefully with some incentives, especially if they don't sell all that well. Otherwise it is a black-on-black 06 GT, or a RBP-on-black 05 GT Limited, with a 5MT any way I slice it, depending on how easy cars are to find, and incentives when I am ready. Unless I hear of a WR Blue Legacy or STi legacy for this country, in which case I may wait a bit longer for it, and save up more down payment for the significantly better car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodoo-chile Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Did anyone else notice that you get teh Navi with the 5mt? Why can't you get the LGT with the 5mt and Navi? Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForesterXT Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Did anyone else notice that you get teh Navi with the 5mt? Why can't you get the LGT with the 5mt and Navi? Kyle Maybe because if you have the 5MT, you're DRIVING the Subie, and not just using it to get from point A to point B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgsntth Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Apologize if I have missed it, but I have seen neither a picture of a moonroof on the Spec B nor mention of it in the descriptions. Is this so? If so, yippee at being able to buy a Suby with leather and without a sun/moonroof. This is a step in the right direction. I am probably mistaken, and no doubt some of you will tell me to read more carefully and quit being a dullard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodoo-chile Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Maybe because if you have the 5MT, you're DRIVING the Subie, and not just using it to get from point A to point B? I know. I came from my first auto tranny in my life and will never go back. But, if they can offer it in the spec B then it is easily plausible to assume that it would/should be available in a non spec B LGT with a MT5. If it were, I might consider upgrading. Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Did anyone else notice that you get teh Navi with the 5mt? Why can't you get the LGT with the 5mt and Navi? Kyle Because SOA is boneheaded. Why can't 06 Legacy GTs have a choice between limited or not? Why can't 06 Legacy, or Outbacks have a choice of interior color? Why can't Legacy Wagon owners get NAV? Nor a MANUAL Trans EITHER? Why isn't the Spec B an option package, rather than a special model? Why can't the radio have an input? Why did they go to chrome headlight housings for no real reason? Why doesn't the 2.5 GT have a 6MT option for better performance and mileage? Why do all 06 Legacys have the exact same wheels, regardless of trim level? (oh, yeah. 500 of them will get bigger wheels. But you HAVE to buy the NAV, and all the rest of the spec B stuff... for buku $$$) Why can't SOA paint the Legacy in a brighter color? The answer for all of those is the same. Subaru of America is making Boneheaded choices, and not giving customers what they want. They figure they'll save money if they don't have to bother selling those pesky CARS... It might interrupt their salesmen around here from walking leasurely around the showrooms, not helping anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tide Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 http://www.driveperformancesubaru.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Just looked and found it- damn, they don't say much! I'd like to see an all Legacy/Outback issue of Drive performance. I have to say that the SpecB is growing on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfd425 Posted September 16, 2005 Author Share Posted September 16, 2005 I have to say that the SpecB is growing on me. Me too. It would be nice to at least have a regular Legacy/Outback column or article in the magazine. I was pretty disappointed that the extent of Legacy info was the Spec B sidebar, and a few pics of show cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 The Legacy is an also-ran in the Subaru model lineup. The only reason SOA seems to keep it around, is that there would be a gaping hole in an all-car (Baja and B9 are NOT trucks, just car adaptations...) lineup if there were no family car bigger than the WRX, and lower to the ground than an Outback. SOA is certainly treating it like the red-headed step-child of the range, that is for sure. And admittedly, aside from the obsolete body-style, somewhat mis-directed Baja, the Legacy line sells the least number of cars. Outbacks sell something like 4-1 over the legacy. B9 is the next big thing, and Impreza/WRX/STi sells better to the younger crowd. Too many people are brand-blind in the Legacy's category. Honda and Toyotas are ubiquitous, for reliability and economy. GM and Ford are American, which stirs some people's choices. Chrysler is there, too, with the advantage of getting a new dose of brashness. Europeans have a reputation, as well, whether they deserve it or not. Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, and Lexus all have much more premium branding and much more public exposure. Subaru isn't fighting hard enough for the Legacy for it to be more than a drop in the bucket in the US. It seems to do slightly better in other markets. They are not fighting with the equipment list, nor with the marketing advocation. Evidently they are content with it being a drop in the bucket, which is too bad. The car itself is far more deserving a machine than that. I'll say it again, until somebody in charge hears me... If you build the Legacy STI, they, we, and ME, will come! SOA, pull the cork out of your nether-regions, build a Legacy that people will want to buy, and offers what they/we want; Top it off with a killer-performance cherry-blossom-on-top, and watch the sales figures rise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfd425 Posted September 16, 2005 Author Share Posted September 16, 2005 Outbacks sell something like 4-1 over the legacy. B9 is the next big thing, and Impreza/WRX/STi sells better to the younger crowd. Too many people are brand-blind in the Legacy's category. I wonder how much of the Outback's sales advantage has to do with marketing. The Outback gets more ads, has a cool name, can be passed off as a SUV alternative, etc. It is also more profitable on a per-unit basis, which may explain some of the extra marketing attention. I think they'll come around with the Legacy GT, but they sure aren't taking full advantage of what they've got. I know from my own experience that the Audi AWD sport sedan market is ripe for the picking. All Subaru needs to do is get the word out that the LGT is lighter, more powerful, better-balanced, and less expensive than the A4. I know a lot of Audi guys in this area have never even heard of the '05 LGT. I think the brand-blindness can be overcome if it's worked at. Maybe typical Camry and Accord buyers won't be swayed by AWD and a 250hp turbo boxer engine, but a lot of true enthusiasts could be brought into the fold. And, fortunately for Subaru, the brand-blindness works in their favor, through shrewd marketing, in the lucrative gay market. Just kidding, buddy, I don't want to start that up again:lol: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tide Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 No, the Legacy is the top seller, and has pretty much always been: "The all-new Subaru B9 Tribeca hit 2,022 units for the month of August. The Subaru Legacy model line recorded a total 7,441 units, while Subaru Outback posted 5,044 units for the month. The Subaru Impreza line was up again 15 percent over the same period last year with 3,054 unit sales. Subaru Forester posted 4,349 units in August, while Subaru Baja recorded 560 units for the month." There is only one reason the model line was consolidated down in options, cost. We can complain all we want but at the end of the day people were not buying 5MT Wagons, then why spend the money on them (just as an example)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tide Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Er hold on, the numbers don't match up, cars101.com makes it look as though the Outback numbers are a subset of the Legacy, which would make Outback selling 5044 and Legacy around 2400. Their press release is poorly worded IMHO. Still searching for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfd425 Posted September 16, 2005 Author Share Posted September 16, 2005 Er hold on, the numbers don't match up, cars101.com makes it look as though the Outback numbers are a subset of the Legacy, which would make Outback selling 5044 and Legacy around 2400. Their press release is poorly worded IMHO. Still searching for clarification. Surely they weren't including the Outback Sport in with the Legacy numbers? But, were they included in the Outback numbers? I never understood why they made Outback it's own separate line. It implies that the Outback and Outback Sport are more closely related to each other than either is to the Legacy or Impreza line. I don't understand what the huge cost would be in making five hundred or a thousand MT wagons. They're already making MT sedans and AT wagons. Audi used to make just a few hundred 200 Turbo and ur-S4 wagons, and they generally ended up in the hands of some of the most hardcore enthusiasts, just like the LGT MT wagons. There is some marketing value in that, because those guys are like a free sales force. Even guys like me, who wouldn't buy a wagon ourselves, have a soft spot for the wagon enthusiasts. The more I think about it, I just think SOA are really crappy marketers. They see numbers on a sheet of paper, but they don't see intangibles very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 I just want the alum control arms. GB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 So 4044 lesbians this month eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97legacygt Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 My theory is that SoA made the Spec-B a limited production run to make it more appealing in the eye of the buyer. I honestly don't think they would sell any better by making them an unlimited production vehicle because of the projected price. Basically, they guestimated how many Spec-B Legacies would be sold due to the price, and they numbered them to make them "limited." You know there are 500 people out there who will see "limited production run," and jump all over them. Not so much, however, if they weren't limited. ...or I could be totally off Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 A Spec B Package would not need to cost nearly that much. GT Colors with GT interiors (going back to Taupe/Black choice would be nice) Optional NAV aside from Spec B. Spec B would add:Bilstein suspesion: Bilstein struts, STi springs, aluminum control arms, 20mm rear swaybar.18" wheels and tires. That's it.Other options would be ordered for themselves. Why should that cost more than about 2k, considering it would be OEM, and would not involve dipping into the "spec a" suspension parts. For 2k, people would buy a "spec B" sport package. Then if they want to do a Limited edition color package, they could do that, and still sell the better suspension to the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfd425 Posted September 20, 2005 Author Share Posted September 20, 2005 A Spec B Package would not need to cost nearly that much. Spec B would add: Bilstein suspesion: Bilstein struts, STi springs, aluminum control arms, 20mm rear swaybar. 18" wheels and tires. That's it. Other options would be ordered for themselves. Why should that cost more than about 2k, considering it would be OEM, and would not involve dipping into the "spec a" suspension parts. My thinking exactly, although I'd be willing to pay a little more if it included some sort of brake upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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