Not your average misfire...Help!

[heiche]

Sorry, i'm not sure how you determine that via AP - maybe some others can chime in.

 

However, I have heard that the newest Subaru firmware version A2WC522N does involve a tweak to the neutral switch signal somehow.

 

This being said, I don't think that would involve misfires because of it though.

[V8lolsubie]

Sorry, i'm not sure how you determine that via AP - maybe some others can chime in.

 

However, I have heard that the newest Subaru firmware version A2WC522N does involve a tweak to the neutral switch signal somehow.

 

This being said, I don't think that would involve misfires because of it though.

 

All I know is that now when I push he neutral switch or connect it via test wires to complete it, the car misfires in those two cyl. Instantly as soon as the button is pushed so I know it has something to do with it. Not to mention cruise control not working now.

[V8lolsubie]

Also like to mention again that these are phantom misfires. The car does not show any other symptoms of a misfire. No change of idle, no change in short term fuel trim readings, no loss of power nothing. It is a computer interpreted misfire.

[V8lolsubie]

Wasn't able to get in with the accessport of course because its really not meant for that. However I was able to with my shop scanner!

 

So this seems pretty interesting to me:

 

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Killerguitars/autel2_zpsb3d8436f.jpg

 

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Killerguitars/autel1_zps5df1809c.jpg

 

 

So it seems its running early firmware. Question is, is that what was flashed on with my base tune or does the tune just overlap what's already on there? I don't know what it was before I stalled my tune so there is no basis of comparison.

[Gex]

You can get the latest oem maps off romradar I believe. Maybe pm Dave "Cryotune" on here. See what he says. Well known e-tuner.

[V8lolsubie]

Apparently this has nothing to do with my issue. F this. Im so sick of chasing this. Been at this for a month. Everytime I think I get close to pinning this mofo down, its something else. Anyone wanna buy a jacked up legacy with nice mods that makes the misfire monitor go ape shit even though its not misfiring? As long as you keep it on the base tune I swear you wont throw any codes since no god damn DTCs ever show themselves so no need to diag anything really because you have nothing to chase! Beautiful right? Oh and no cruise or ac since the ECU is muffed up thats always nice. But everything else is good! Buy this junk box.

[Max Capacity]

Are you ready to talk to my Tuner now ?

 

Mike Kinsman is right off rt84 exit 65 in Vernon. www.tuningalliance.com meet up with him and have him data log and see if he can figure this out.

 

I'm not good with this type stuff. He's great with it. You can tell Mike I sent you.

[heiche]

Back to basics, could it be a hidden missing ground somewhere?

[V8lolsubie]

Are you ready to talk to my Tuner now ?

 

Mike Kinsman is right off rt84 exit 65 in Vernon. www.tuningalliance.com meet up with him and have him data log and see if he can figure this out.

 

I'm not good with this type stuff. He's great with it. You can tell Mike I sent you.

 

Ill give him a call. Im open to anyones input of course. Its pretty much a matter of who can figure this out first. I appreciate the recomendation.

 

Back to basics, could it be a hidden missing ground somewhere?

 

Its always possible but I dont think so. The sensor plugs into the bulkhead harness not the engine harness so that harness was never removed or touched. I see in the scanner its completing the circuit.

[V8lolsubie]

So its been put on the back burner the last few weeks now. Started a new job so Iv really just been focused on that and have been driving the car everyday with no problems what so ever for the last month or more now.

 

No tuner seems to have a real straight answer given the symptoms. Talked to Mike and he says pretty much any "noise" can be interoperated as a misfire. But to my knowledge nothing is loose or applicable to this. Especially the instant the car is put in gear.

[boxman]

Have you checked for an electrical drain? Most especially on the neutral safety switch circuit?

[Max Capacity]

You may want to have Mike street tune it or do some data logging if the issue comes back.

 

Electrical could be a issue, how's the battery and the terminals, clean and tight ?

 

What's the idle RPM ?

[V8lolsubie]

You may want to have Mike street tune it or do some data logging if the issue comes back.

 

Electrical could be a issue, how's the battery and the terminals, clean and tight ?

 

What's the idle RPM ?

 

Issue still hasn't gone away. But the only time Ill ever know is if I read live date on the accessport and see the misfires.

 

Its funny you say that because I really have been recently suspecting that maybe the battery is an issue. Connections are clean and tight of course but the battery is going on over four years old now so maybeee just maybe that subtle lack of charging system stabilization could be causing an issue.

 

Idle RPM is 900 and the set desired RPM is 900.

[meier motor sports]

does it need to be re tuned with the non broken timing sprocket?

[V8lolsubie]

does it need to be re tuned with the non broken timing sprocket?

 

Nah Im still on my base map and it was never tuned since. I basically requested a limp tune to be fabbed up so that the day the new motor was swapped in I could flash it on and start it and put some break in miles on it.

 

Nothing was scaled to the car yet and the map was just an OTS from a local tuner set up assuming everything mechanically was fine with the car.

[heiche]

happy thanksgiving. you've probably already thought of this, but could the alternator be making electrical "noise" that is causing the misfires in this turkey? maybe test it by temporarily removing the drive belt so the alt won't spin... just for a few seconds anyway to determine if it helps?

[V8lolsubie]

happy thanksgiving. you've probably already thought of this, but could the alternator be making electrical "noise" that is causing the misfires in this turkey? maybe test it by temporarily removing the drive belt so the alt won't spin... just for a few seconds anyway to determine if it helps?

 

I will try that as well when I tackle the battery.

[JmP6889928]

There were two different crank gears for EJ255/257 with a slightly different tooth pattern. Perhaps you have the wrong one for your engine? Throwing that out because I had both of them too and took a good look at them and thought to myself that they didn't look right so I matched them up and one of them is different from the other. I reused the one off of my engine when I did my build and have had no CEL or misfires but I would bet that if I had used the other one, I would be chasing like you are.

 

Another idea could be two fold-ground issue as heiche said that could be making ground until you load the engine on the motor mounts. Once you torque the engine/drivetrain, it may put enough twist stress on the ground to cause it to fail, even slightly, which could be enough on circuits that require consistent ground. The battery also COULD be an issue. The battery is the reservoir that the entire car draws from and regardless of how good the alternator is, without a good battery with 12.6V charge, it could cause issues.

 

Last thing-check for a pinched wire on your neutral safety switch, even the tiniest of pinch. Maybe when you pulled/pushed the engine, it may have twisted or pushed something against something else when you were lining up the clutch, and pinched it a little bit. You mentioned that you can see the misfires when you touch the two wires together, you watch the misfires come. Might be something that simple.

 

On the misfires switching sides...I honestly have no idea. THAT one stumps me and I can't wait to find out how and why.

 

Good luck.

[V8lolsubie]

There were two different crank gears for EJ255/257 with a slightly different tooth pattern. Perhaps you have the wrong one for your engine? Throwing that out because I had both of them too and took a good look at them and thought to myself that they didn't look right so I matched them up and one of them is different from the other. I reused the one off of my engine when I did my build and have had no CEL or misfires but I would bet that if I had used the other one, I would be chasing like you are.

 

Once I noticed the broken tooth, I swapped it out from my old EJ255 block and that issue was solved.

 

Another idea could be two fold-ground issue as heiche said that could be making ground until you load the engine on the motor mounts. Once you torque the engine/drivetrain, it may put enough twist stress on the ground to cause it to fail, even slightly, which could be enough on circuits that require consistent ground. The battery also COULD be an issue. The battery is the reservoir that the entire car draws from and regardless of how good the alternator is, without a good battery with 12.6V charge, it could cause issues.

 

Plausible. Its due for a battery anyway like I said so even if that doesn't help, its good practice to replace it anyway. Thing is it happens with no load on the engine, just sitting still. Still a little bit of load put on but its so small.

 

Last thing-check for a pinched wire on your neutral safety switch, even the tiniest of pinch. Maybe when you pulled/pushed the engine, it may have twisted or pushed something against something else when you were lining up the clutch, and pinched it a little bit. You mentioned that you can see the misfires when you touch the two wires together, you watch the misfires come. Might be something that simple.

 

Ill double check it again but I was able to see how free the harness is and it was not obstructed from what I could see.

 

On the misfires switching sides...I honestly have no idea. THAT one stumps me and I can't wait to find out how and why.

 

Yep. Went from cyl 2 and 4 to cyl 1 and 3 as soon as the crank gear was swapped.

 

Good luck.

[Tuning Alliance]

It appears to have been a tuning issue all along. It went on the dyno on saturday (12/20). I did a short pull to see what was going on, she was super rich pegging the wideband in the 9s. It was also making an interesting oscilation in power which was likely some type of rich misfire.

 

Then installed a base tune for 800cc 18g, noticed immediately it was trimming out negative 20-22%. I came to the conclusion that they were not 800cc but likely 1000cc injectors. Rescaled and she was in the mid 10 AFRs. Osciliation went away in the power band, no misfires, no odd cylinder roughness.

 

After things were properly scaled i saw no change in roughness when selecting gears. Haven't heard from the OP since, but hope all is well. Glad I was able to resolve this issue as he was pretty frustrated and rightfully so.

[HDZ32]

It appears to have been a tuning issue all along. It went on the dyno on saturday (12/20). I did a short pull to see what was going on, she was super rich pegging the wideband in the 9s. It was also making an interesting oscilation in power which was likely some type of rich misfire.

 

Then installed a base tune for 800cc 18g, noticed immediately it was trimming out negative 20-22%. I came to the conclusion that they were not 800cc but likely 1000cc injectors. Rescaled and she was in the mid 10 AFRs. Osciliation went away in the power band, no misfires, no odd cylinder roughness.

 

After things were properly scaled i saw no change in roughness when selecting gears. Haven't heard from the OP since, but hope all is well. Glad I was able to resolve this issue as he was pretty frustrated and rightfully so.

YAYYY glad to see this resolved!!

[V8lolsubie]

Still running great thus far. No issues no problems. Unbelievable that this whole time I was right it was a tune issue. I thought I was going crazy and just didn't want to deal with it anymore but Mike saved my thinking.

 

I have to say thank you soooo much to Mike and the guys for getting me though this. I will post a separate review on this but in a nut shell, the guys rocked.

 

Mike took the time that no one else would. I talked with two other competitor tuners before being directed to mike. One was very helpful but my initial tuner just didn't have the time. Not bashing anyone but I really didn't have great experience prior to talking to mike.

 

He was so thorough, professional and down to earth regarding this problem and nailed it quickly. I will be back for sure. I was hoping to break 300 horses but I ended up with a safe 284 whp and 291 trq all said and done which is fine. Mike and Dave didn't treat my like just another A hole customer hoping to get this done asap to go home for the day. No, they didn't have the arrogance other tuners have and really took the extra time to make it right. Thanks again guys.

[V8lolsubie]

Oh and of course thanks to everyone who posted and contributed. Im sure some got very curious as to what the problem was the whole time. Thanks for all the help.

[Tuning Alliance]

Still running great thus far. No issues no problems. Unbelievable that this whole time I was right it was a tune issue. I thought I was going crazy and just didn't want to deal with it anymore but Mike saved my thinking.

 

I have to say thank you soooo much to Mike and the guys for getting me though this. I will post a separate review on this but in a nut shell, the guys rocked.

 

Mike took the time that no one else would. I talked with two other competitor tuners before being directed to mike. One was very helpful but my initial tuner just didn't have the time. Not bashing anyone but I really didn't have great experience prior to talking to mike.

 

He was so thorough, professional and down to earth regarding this problem and nailed it quickly. I will be back for sure. I was hoping to break 300 horses but I ended up with a safe 284 whp and 291 trq all said and done which is fine. Mike and Dave didn't treat my like just another A hole customer hoping to get this done asap to go home for the day. No, they didn't have the arrogance other tuners have and really took the extra time to make it right. Thanks again guys.

 

Very glad to help. :)

 

Mike