jameshawk25 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 So about a month ago I went stage 3 stock fueling. Dave at Cryotune is my tuner for my build and we have been trying to figure out my trim issues so we can proceed with tuning. As you can see in the learing view the car is adding a ton of fuel at idle and in cell c as well. Here is my mod list then I will get into what i have done. VF52 FMIC with a 28x8x2.5 core 14" long 3" intake with brand new cone filter Catless up pipe Catless 3" down pipe Turboxs recirc bpv Competition Clutch stage 2 clutch with a light weight wrx single mass flywheel Now on to what i have done to try and correct the fuel trims you see on the attached learning view. I have done probably 25 boost leak checks over the last few weeks. I found a few leaks and took care of them. The car is holding pressure during the boost leak test now. I decided that maybe the maf was on its way out so I swapped it for a known good one and still nothing changed. So with searching and reading the forum and seeing others struggle with this I decided to snag a set of 30000 mile injectors from a totaled car. Nothing changed when I changed the injectors. I decided that maybe I should check my af sensor and it had a pretty good white coating on it like it had been running lean so I got a genuine subaru af sensor and changed it. Still no improvements. With all that being changed I read a lot more and found that intake gaskets can be the problem and not show on a leak test so I changed out the intake manifold gaskets because I knew they hadn't been done. They looked pretty beat up. After getting it all back together last night and leak testing it still with no leaks found the trims are what it shows in the lv. I am kinda lost for ideas other than maybe I am having a fueling issue. But the fueling system is pretty cut and dry it works or it doesnt correct me if I am wrong. Any thoughts? Should I use the romraider maf scaler and we can see what its saying it wants for a scale? Let me know what some good logs you guy might want to see and i can get them right away. Thanks in advance for any help. I am also going to get another LV once the iam goes up to 1. I am on a base map from Dave right now so it take a bit to go up to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian3676 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I dont know what FMIC you have, but mine was leaking around the weld for the BOV flange. After I had it re welded it helped with my AF learning a bit. I also had a small leak in my by-pass hose where it connected to the BOV. How are you boost checking it? Through the inlet tube at just a few PSI or are you pressurizing it through the FMIC piping at the turbo? I did both ways, the one through the inlet I found the bypass hose leak ( you cant pressurize it as high) ,and then when I did the FMIC piping I pressurized it to about 25PSI and found the weld leak, and a few couplers that I tightened down. On a side note, I am 99% sure Dave says to not post questions about his tunes on the forums until the tune is done, and to e mail him with any questions. He is always more that willing to answer anything I have ever asked. Did he give you any advice, or did he just send a base map and you wrote this right away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 so positive trims mean you are adding fuel, so the o2 sensor is seeing a lean condition, which means either more air is getting in that is expected from the maf or less fuel is being delivered than called for. I'd double check the turbo inlet for leaks and if that doesn't reveal anything start investigating fueling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameshawk25 Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 First to address the not talking about his tunes. I wasnt told to not talk about the tune until it was done, but with that said I wouldn't give away any info about my tune other than the basic what tune it is and who is doing it. Also on that note I do believe it is to keep people from making changes and not telling him about them while he is tuning and to keep people from giving it away. But with this issue, it is a hardware issue not a software issue. So I am just seeking advise from people that may have had this issue in the past that's all. Cause at the end of the day if my motor blows from running lean I am responsible for it not him. Also I have talked to him about it and got some advise, but its still a problem so I figured i would reach out the the LGT community for help. I received my base map over a month ago and have been working to resolve the lean issue for a while now. Dave told me I need to get it fixed before we proceed so this is what I am trying to do. None of that was meant to be disrespectful....I know how fast arguments flare up on threads due to misunderstandings. Now on to the good stuff....I actually had the same problem with my bov flange on my intercooler piping. I had it re-welded already and its good to go. I have pressurized both low (under 15 psi) on the inlet and high on the intercooler as well. All the leaks i found there which was only a couple little ones are gone. I found a small tear in the inlet as well and replaced it. I am going to start looking at fueling. I just feel if it was a fuel supply problem it would be constant across the board or at least close to constant across the fuel trims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian3676 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 What FMIC kit do you have? Interesting we both have BOV flange weld leaks haha. No, was not accusing you of giving away Daves secrets haha, was just saying in his first e mail he usually asks you to not post things on forums because he may or may not have done something intentionally to work on the tune. If he said you have a leak and you need to find it, than I understand your post. Have you cleaned the MAF? I also had the high corrections in my A and C but B and D were fine and it was leaks in my couplers and the BOV flange weld. At a point I could not find my leak by listening anymore, so I got some what's called Snoop , it is a high foaming solution used to find leaks. A high soap to water concentration will also work though. You will be amazed at what you find foaming up but can't hear leaking. I do find it crazy you have a 15+% correction tho but can't here it....Check the BOV by pass hose where is connects to the BOV for a rip or tear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameshawk25 Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 I bought the piping kit on ebay and had a core given to me by a friend who went bigger turbo and bigger core. I swapped out the mad for a known good one and both give the same reading both before and after cleaning. I also replaced the bov hose cause the one I had on the car was leaking at the bov. I am going to hit everything with a higher concentration of soap and see what bubbles. Yah I am lost for words as to how frustrating it is to have that bad of a leak and no sign of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 16, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 16, 2014 The next thing you pay for should probably be a legitimate smoke test to visually check for leaks. Should be more definitive than just pressurizing the system. Don't rule out your intake either. I would strongly suggest reinstalling your stock intake as the first course of action and then see If the issue persists. It's free to do this and you can check that piece off the list of culprits. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameshawk25 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Ya I need to find a place out here in western MA that can do a true smoke test. I think I might toss it on and give it a go.....free test is the best kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameshawk25 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Do you think that the intake could really be causing it to run that lean? I am getting a stage 3 stock fuel tune right now so I am guessing that I really won't need it till I go full stage 3 with bigger injectors and a pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 17, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 17, 2014 Yes, I think it could be your intake. Either way, with an hour or so of tinkering plus some drive time, you can confirm that it IS or IS NOT intake related. I had an issue at one point with a leak that was pre-maf. It didn't show up from a boost leak test obviously, and you would think it wouldn't even cause issues but it did. Pull the intake, go back to stock, reset the ECU, and see if the problem persists. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawk618 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 When I was fooling with my car, I had done some stuff and could NOT keep the stock airbox intact. I found my trims doing a LOT like yours were when I had just my stock airbox lid with no box *for a short time until my new intake arrived* What I'm trying to say is the composition of your intake pipe has a HUGE roll in your fuel trims. If you are running a home made intake that very well could be the issue. Also, did you replace your front o2 sensor? Maybe it's giving bad readings causing the car to constantly add fuel. 10' CTS-V, A6, Airraid, 2.4 upper, ID850's, self tuned. SOLD:06' LGT Wagon. BNR16G, Catless UP, DOWN, Hexmods VB, Hexmods diff bushings, BIG TMIC. Best 0-60: 4.651 by AP 1/4= 13.678@100.73 mph, 1.945 60', Automatic transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameshawk25 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Go figure.....I strapped my stock intake on and reset my ecu and my idle trim is holding around 3 which is great! The only problem I have now is the stock air box won't fit where it belongs due to the fmic piping. Maybe it's time to stick it in there just good enough and pop the hood off and do some driving to see if my trims settle out. If all is well trims wise with the stock intake shouldn't we be able to tune out the trim issues with my other intake? Or should I be looking for a new intake that won't be so off for tuning? Any brand recomendations? Yes I did replace the af sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameshawk25 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 So after talking to Dave we found the issue was just a break down in communication and he didn't realize the size of my intake and so now tuning continues! By the way anyone looking to get tuned should definitely go with cryotune performance! Dave is a great guy and very knowledgeable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 18, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 18, 2014 Good stuff, glad you seem to have things sorted and can move forward. Fuel trims always seem to be blamed on post-maf vacuum/boost leaks. Need to spread the word about intake / air filter issues as well. It's an easy thing to check and potentially eliminate before driving yourself crazy over leaks that can't be found, sensors, injectors, etc. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameshawk25 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Yah that's for sure. I was on a few week cycle of tearing things apart and replacing anything I could over and over again with very minimal change. But it also shows that 100% communication and telling your tuner exactly what you have and not being vague on anything. It's amazing how touchy these cars are to air flow changes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I had a dry flow filter that didn't fit perfectly in the housing that was throwing trims way off. super sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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