chato Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 So after a fair amount of research about ways to increase the travel on BC BR coilovers, I decided to pull the trigger on swift replacement springs. I hadn't seen much info about the upgrade so I thought I would throw this up there for all the folks that run these. It was really this article that did it for me. As I had long assumed the stock springs on the BC's are the real weak spot. They bind quickly (at 2 1/4 inches in the above dyno test which appears to be the same brand spring as the BC) and spring rate increases considerably with compression. All this makes for a really harsh ride and not particularly adept handling at the limit. Here's a side by side comparison of the springs, same spring rate for both. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=180371&d=1398179656 You can see that the swifts are a bit taller and have one less coil than the stock BC springs. They are also considerably larger in diameter. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=180372&d=1398179656 I used the opportunity to replace the top spring perches (the roller bearings were trashed and BC warranty sent me some new ones for free). I also cleaned lubed everything while they were apart. Here they are on the car. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=180374&d=1398179765 Once installed, the car sat about 1.5-1.75 inches taller than it did with the stock BC springs, a good sign that I had gained some travel and also some overall height potential out of the coils. I haven't put a ton of miles on them since the install, but they already feel 100% better. Small potholes and speedbumps that used to hurt my teeth are soaked up no problem now. Not saying the are plush, but Its definitely a more supple response than before, how a tight sport suspension should feel. At $80 a corner this isn't the cheapest upgrade, but sure feels worth it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 What part number did you go with? The ones I used on my Nissan Sentra where not quite as beefy. http://images.rvsmods.com/var/albums/Cars/B15/Suspension/Coilovers/BC-BR%20Type/CIMG0239.JPG?m=1372393379 http://images.rvsmods.com/var/albums/Cars/B15/Suspension/Coilovers/BC-BR%20Type/CIMG0235.JPG?m=1372393382 BC BR vs Tein Basic http://images.rvsmods.com/var/albums/Cars/B15/Suspension/Coilovers/BC-BR%20Type/CIMG9809.JPG?m=1364185707 vs SWIFT on BC's http://images.rvsmods.com/var/albums/Cars/B15/Suspension/Coilovers/BC-BR%20Type/CIMG0244.JPG?m=1372393385 23 WRX - Stock / De-Crosstreked 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) / 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct / 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 the fronts were z65-203-160 supposed to be the same spring rate as BC stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausdmjay05 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 the fronts were z65-203-160 supposed to be the same spring rate as BC stock. Chato sent you a PM Hey, looking at the Swift web site I believe you may have a higher spring rate than the "stock" BC BR Coilovers. http://www.swiftsprings.net/products/universal/metric-coilover-springs-65.html Site here says the spring rate is 16kg .. not 8kg. Hence the 160 in your product SKU. Now, if you're saying the ride is great - kudos to you. I am also looking for a solution to the bone jarring ride in city driving my new BC BRs are giving me. I can see in the photos its a 160 (16kg series spring). Is that in your front set now? What are you using in your rear set? Could you perhaps take a photo? I find spring fasincating - and if by jumping up to 16kg compression you have a found an awesome ride, more power to you. Would like to play around a bit myself but I'll have to fly in springs from the US to Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 yes, believe it or not, these are apparently near double the spring rate of the stock BC springs. I didn't realize that when ordering, and simply asked the BC sales rep for the "same as stock" spring rate. Regardless, they do ride much better than the original BC springs, I think it is really just a matter of the increased travel and the extremely linear spring rate that swift springs have. The BC springs will stack up load as the compress, so their effective spring rate is actually much higher than the advertised spring rate. I haven't upgraded the rears yet, at $90 a spring, i figured I would get the fronts on and see how they worked before I ponied up for the rears, which I will do soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 if you order direct from bc when buying c/o, you can get the swifts installed from the factory. If you call in, you can get custom spring rates & valving as well. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 if you order direct from bc when buying c/o, you can get the swifts installed from the factory. If you call in, you can get custom spring rates & valving as well. How much extra was it from BC? I was under the impression it was $90 per, and you didn't get any stock BC springs. I like having the ability to go back to stock BC springs if I ever sell the coilovers, since Swift's can be used on other cars/coilovers . 23 WRX - Stock / De-Crosstreked 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) / 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct / 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 How much extra was it from BC? I was under the impression it was $90 per, and you didn't get any stock BC springs. I like having the ability to go back to stock BC springs if I ever sell the coilovers, since Swift's can be used on other cars/coilovers . Not sure they can be re-used unless buying the same parts to use them with. If you buy direct, you don't get BC springs; then again, why would you care? When I priced out swifts with BC & custom valving, the cost was close to the $2.3k option which gave me many more options. In my case, as I found out on day one at the track, I needed 3-way adjustable with custom springs. The BC setup was never as capable as I wanted, however, I only spent $1k to find out. By the time I figured out what I needed, I'd moved on to a racecar that was already sorted. To do it all over again, I'd have listened to my suspension guy and gone with his suggestions ($5k 3-way adjustable c/o tuned for my car/driving with matched springs plus competition corner balance). At some point, I'll free up enough money to split an enduro with Gator to find out how his RJE setup works. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausdmjay05 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 speaking from a BC CO spring owner, you will probably never miss them lol joking aside, props to Chato for the quick response and confirming that they are in fact 16kg springs. If I had to do it over again, 100% chance I would have opted for Swift springs from the get go. As much as I love taking 90* turns at 50mph with full traction, not worth the terrible ride for a DD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausdmjay05 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 the increased travel and the extremely linear spring rate that swift springs have. The BC springs will stack up load as the compress, so their effective spring rate is actually much higher than the advertised spring rate. . ^^^ This Chato - so you dont even have the Swifts in the rear and the ride is that much better? Makes sense given the front engine I suppose. Hey man, thanks for your help. Can't wait to buy these in the US and shuttle them back to my workshop in Australia (no distributors here in Oz) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 ^^^ This Chato - so you dont even have the Swifts in the rear and the ride is that much better? Makes sense given the front engine I suppose. Hey man, thanks for your help. Can't wait to buy these in the US and shuttle them back to my workshop in Australia (no distributors here in Oz) Buy all 4. Just do it. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausdmjay05 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Most def Boxkita If I mule springs all the way back to Australia I will get a complete set. Just need to figure out the exact spring rates. I'm going to speak to the BC guys, Swift reps and then average their recommendations I bet I'll get something with a lower rate than Chatos for up front. Perhaps 10 front 12 rear. I'm no expert so will rely on more experienced folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 yeah, I'll be picking up the rear two soon just to match out the set. If I'd known the quality of the ride I would have just ordered a full set from the beginning. This is what sold me on the Swifts, pretty sure the Megans that are dyno'ed in this article are the same manufacturer as the BC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 10/12 is in the serious autox range. So I'd take a ride in a few cars to see how it really feels. I'm slammed on 6/8 BC and its pretty close to go-kart travel. Smooth roads its fine, bumpy roads it blurs your vision. At the end of the day, regardless how good your springs are, the amount of travel you have determines how smooth your ride is. Your car is going to drop unless you are buying an off-road setup. How much drop and how its adjusted will, to a large extent, determine ride quality. Unless you are suspension expert, get a corner balance with your typical load. In the case of wagons, the suspension heights can be adjusted to remove the "saggy butt", too. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 That's odd that 6/8 BC's are that rough for you, with adjustable lower mounts it's supposed to retain all of it's travel. I'm running BC BR 8k's in the rear, stock front, and it's still very comfortable. I don't think installing the 6k fronts will make it that much stiffer.. the previous owner of my BC's glued the threads so I can't loosen the front to adjust them thus can't install them yet. 23 WRX - Stock / De-Crosstreked 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) / 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct / 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausdmjay05 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 10/12 is in the serious autox range. So I'd take a ride in a few cars to see how it really feels. I totally agree, which is why I find it intriguing that our friend Chato is on such a high spring rate and finds the ride much smoother It could also be that the spring was simply mislabelled, and in fact is a 6kg spring from Swift... but the SKUs match up. weird. The rep from FR Sport says that Swift 8-9kg is plenty for aggressive/sporty street suspension for most sedans. I'm downsizing based on the guidance so far, so may go with 8/10 or even the 6/8 combination with Swift. Perhaps I'll start a new thread to survey all the Swift spring upgrade owners Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 sort of annoyed that they sent me such a stiff spring, when I asked for stock spring rates. wonder how much better the ride would be with a lower spring rate. I hadn't actually realized they sent the 16s til this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausdmjay05 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Chato if it makes you feel better, an improvement is an improvement mate - who cares what the spring rate is, it just a number. you never know... I may order the 6kg in front and ill find that the rate is entirely too soft and "boaty" when driving. i wont know for sure until they are installed. but if you have 16kg up front, and youre not annoyed 80% of the time when youre driving... then you're winning mate. reality is all that matters. Now, if you think your ride is a bit stiff yet, thats another story Personally, I am not going to track my car. its a DD that looks nice and has an aggressive fitment, and I value a comfortable ride over high end performance. its a legacy after all, not a WRX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 an improvement is an improvement mate for sure, I'm just wonder how much better a lower spring rate could be. especially since I'm 4k north of autocross spring rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Did a lot of driving on concrete slab roads this weekend with 1-3 passengers on BC 8k coils in the rear stock front (strut/spring). With 1 passenger it was fine and plenty comfortable, with two extra people in the back it was noticeably harsher, but still wasn't bad for us up front but the folks in the back complained about the roughness. The added weight compressed the springs more, thus increased the spring rates hence it became harsher. Looks like I'll be getting SWIFT's for the back too... 23 WRX - Stock / De-Crosstreked 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) / 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct / 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtea Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Bumping an old thread to see if anyone found the spring rate for swifts plus bc c/o's as a dd with less than ideal roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 so BC replaced the higher rate springs for me with a set of 8/10k's which is what they recommended, slightly higher than what the BC's come with stock. Coils are off the car at the moment, waiting for motor refresh to reinstall but I'll definitely update once they are back on the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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