keenster Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) Okay so here's my story... When i was a young lad the blue car with gold rims caught my eye instantly! so back when dial up was big I did as much research as i could on this car. It was love when i learned about AWD, Turbos, and that sexy look of these Subarus. Anyways a few years later when i got my license my uncle offered me his 1989 Subaru Justy. Four door, baby blue, five speed with a selector switch on the shifter to switch into 4WD. I was in love! The only car of its kind and all the kids at school loved it. Long story short the Justy lasted about a year and a half. The front end was falling apart and i couldn't find parts anywhere:icon_sad:. My dad then convinced me to scrap the car bla bla bla. I was young and stupid and regretfully followed suit. Then 3 years later I was in need of a car. I was getting a Subaru no matter what. Found a 2006 Legacy GT limited. The only downfall was it wasn't a 5-speed. but i fell in love with the car like one of those Subaru commercials. Oh and i fell into that scheme and bought one of them there extended warrantys (stupidest thing ever!) The day after I bought the car the car over heated and died on the side of the highway. Note that this was my first turbocharged car, I've done my research and i knew not to go balls to the wall. I didnt even drive it the slightest bit hard or tromp on the throttle. I was a nervous Nancy about the biggest purchase of my life. When it died i wasn't mad because i knew the car would have to be fixed by the dealer. When the car got towed to the dealer they gave me a rental. The Next day the dealership called and said they can give me another vehicle or i can pay half the bill! I asked about the extended warranty and they told me they would give me a call when they come inspect it. So 3 weeks later they call me and they tell me the warranty company denied the claim due to the fact it had an after market turbo in it? :confused:and apparently the warranty doesnt kick in until 30 days after purchase. I went in to look at the tear down of my motor and there was an insane amount of flake in the oil. I only put 35 miles on the car in that one day i had the car... So all that flake came from 35 miles? Whatever I wasnt trying to investigate i just wanted my car. They said i spun a bearing. They still told me i have to pay half parts and labor. I dont give in that easy. Then i got a hold of my buddy's cousin who was a lawyer and he said he would try to scare the dealership and make a threat to them and represent me. NO go, the dealership shrugged it off. One last idea that my step mother gave to me was to contact the Ohio Attorney General. I then emailed the Attorney General and they have a whole reporting thing on businesses and dealerships. I filled it all out and never got a reply back. Three days later I got a phone call from the dealership saying not to worry about splitting cost they are going to take care of it and not to worry. They got a reman motor and they used the same heads and timing belt (which had 70k miles on it). And put that all back in. It only took 3 Months to get my car back! Which leaves me to now. The car needs rebuilt. It was a super cold day in January and I started the car up and went... drove half way to work and the motor started making all kinds of noises like a 5 year old's garage band. wooshing, knocking, ticking, clacking, and the sounds of tear drops hitting my lap. I knew i was in this for the long run. I've always wanted a fully built subaru so this is the perfect time to start. In the mean time i picked up a 1989 Ford Probe Gt with 155xxx miles on it. It's a 2.2 turbo and really fun to drive. Only one owner, the guy was a engineer and this car was in pristine shape. His wife made him trade the car in. He seriously was almost in tears leaving the dealership because he did not want to get rid of it. (by now you know i worked at a dealership, which i quit and I'll never do car sales again in my life(dirty)) The car has no rust on it, everything works, no check engine, and he brought me the shop manual to it and 2 other servicing books. The car also has a stock electronic suspension switch. Back on topic. The only mods I've done Grimmspeed AOS Perrin catless up pipe Perrin LWCP ebay strut bars front and back and defi racer series Boost Gauge. Hence my build plan. Im still researching the exact parts I want but you'll get the idea. BNR 18g *New EJ257 *Cobb Accessport V3 *ARP studs *Group and N motor mounts *Gates racing water pump *Gates racing timing belt switch over to a catch can (still up for debate) *Oil cooler *Oil pump *Avcs oil control valve x2 *silicone vacuum hoses Redoing all hoses *DW 850cc top feed Injector conversion kit *DW 65c fuel pump steel braided gas lines *Areomotive FPR *TGV deletes *Phenolic spacer 8mm *RacerX FMIC *GFB Respose Blow off *tech-Na Steel Braided Brake lines *Turbo Inlet (stock one tore) *Cobb SF Intake and box Sway Bars front and back endlinks *Tranny cooler Hex mod *Cobb catted downpipe *Agency Power UEL headers *Killer b oil pick *Killer b baffle *Killer b oil pan *COBB 3 port Boost solenoid *STI pedals *Rear differential bushings *Infamous filtered oil line kit with avcs line SPT cat back exhaust And need to research more suspension to figure out my set up. *= already have Now I know this is going to be very expensive and time consuming. Some on here might say im dumb for doing all this but this is something I've wanted to do since i hit puberty. Pictures of everything coming later today when I get home. Any words of wisdom are always welcome! Edited April 21, 2015 by keenster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF_3C2 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hope you're really skilled at putting stuff together or you're getting a good deal at a local shop.... You make no mention of turbo- I would suggest dropping the stock VF-40 and going with either a BNR or VF-52, which would then require some engine management (open source or AP) plus a tune. Depending on your power target, beefing up the top end might not be worth the cost. Also be looking at your transmission and brakes. The 5EAT doesn't like increased power levels so much and I believe it requires a mod to make it safer to do so. Be sure to check out the transmission section in the forums. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenster Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Oh yeah I can put stuff together. I am having the motor built by a shop. Everything else is up to me. And yeah I do plan on the main body valves for the tranny. Still undecided about if I should go hexmod or ipt. The turbo yeah I've read to many heart wrenching stories on the VF 40s. Still need to read up and see which turbo I do wanna go with. The brakes are getting upgraded for sure. All that power needs a good way to stop. I've lost my license to this car lol so brakes are a must. As far as tuning. I would go to TPG in PA or infamous since he does AP now. I have a Mac and open source doesn't like macs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstaslp Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 If you are on the fence about Hexmods F1, then do some more reading. I can't compare the two because I have never had IPT, but he is a stand up guy and is telling you that muck more work goes into his units. It is the best thing I have done for longevity on my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttnio Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Welcome. Happy Motoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenster Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Here are some pictures of the Justy, Probe and legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenster Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 more photos coming i cant seem to upload anymore... saying i have a security issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJr Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Oh yeah I can put stuff together. I am having the motor built by a shop. Everything else is up to me. And yeah I do plan on the main body valves for the tranny. Still undecided about if I should go hexmod or ipt. The turbo yeah I've read to many heart wrenching stories on the VF 40s. Still need to read up and see which turbo I do wanna go with. The brakes are getting upgraded for sure. All that power needs a good way to stop. I've lost my license to this car lol so brakes are a must. As far as tuning. I would go to TPG in PA or infamous since he does AP now. I have a Mac and open source doesn't like macs. ClimberD's Hex mod no question!! GL with the build I'm jealous:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenster Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Well it's been a while since I've updated you guys. Long story short I've been doing a lot with my apprenticeship with the operating engineers and haven't had time to do anything. But that being said I was able to get a few upgrades and some time to read these forums like a nerd! The parts so far... Agency Power UEL headers Cobb catted DP Infamous filtered oil feed line Water pump Timing belt RacerX FMIC KillerB oil tray baffle Cobb 3 port EBCS All gaskets for exhaust. Thickest ones I could find. Most are grimmspeed. And more to come. I do have a few questions about the difference in turbos. Is ball bearing better? I know the 16g, 18g, and the 20g each have their power differences 20 being the best out of those three, but what is the real difference? Is the exhaust side smaller and the induction side bigger? Basically the technical stuff about. I'll search it too but I've always kind of wondered. Here what I found when I pulled the inlet off! A fine piece of jewelry if you ask me! http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/14/f492c8b57cd3ffb9736e9a2a774ba88a.jpg Throttle body juice http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/14/fc4dd9c4c749278dfce30542d8650eb1.jpg And last but not least an old guy in the Cleveland area sporting a LGT! http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/14/f7bc8bc3489b746f05ebf0dc54072193.jpg And any Ohio guys know where to go for a good rebuild shop? I've heard of TPG in PA and EFI. Don't want to put all this money into a shop that has poop builds. I heard bad things about Smokey's Dyno in Canton. But I also heard the got rid of some dudes there to fix the problem. Any input is good! Edited October 14, 2014 by keenster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenster Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Oh and did these myself too!http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/14/a14e9b7f6a67f0ce231ca91573e453de.jpg No picture of the finished product though Edited October 14, 2014 by keenster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hi! Welcome! Nice shopping list! You want words of wisdom: Honestly, if you've got the cash and you simply must spend it, then by all means -- Go for forged internals. However, you'll be like the other 95% of those with built motors, driving around on something you neither need, nor will really make use of. For a daily-driver in Cleveland, there's almost no reason you'd need such a setup, and at the end of the day, I just don't think you'd be happy with the hassle that comes with built motors. They're not maintenance-free. In fact, they're more headache and expense then the already headache-y and expensive OEM blocks. Do you forsee yourself dropping in a gigantic turbo and running 25psi? How many times per year will this car see a track, or competitive use? Is your power goal above 300hp? Why? If your answer is No, Zero and/or Maybe 1 or 2, and, "I don't know, I just want it", you should seriously reevaluate your plans. Cars built without a purpose, other than to participate in Flatbilled Dick Measuring Contests by way of boasting about hp numbers and parts one cannot see nor appreciate, are usually shit cars. Expensive, but still, shit cars. Save your money for StanceWars or something. Now, I get the impression that you are young. (And also without a driver's license, currently??) From what I can tell, you have no actual need for what you're seeking other than that you just WANT it. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but, what you're looking at is a 10k build. Do you really have that kind of money to drop right now? Just remember, if you manage to keep this car long enough, it will not be the last engine you ever put into it -- at another stage in your life, when you've got a career, good money coming in and a life of your own, you'll have another opportunity to build your midlife crisis racecar. Meanwhile, I think you'll be just fine with an OEM Ej255/257 and a rebuilt turbo. I suggest getting in touch with JmP6889928, your turbo looks like it'd be a good core for his ball-bearing project, which, when released, will be pretty badass. For now, though, he can get you setup with a pretty sweet VF40 with upgraded journal bearings and an 11-blade billet wheel capable of 20psi. I've been running that exact turbo from him for about 2k miles now, and with a Stage 2 Cobb tune, it's got PLENTY of power. Read my Shopping List and (re)build thread, along with Max Capacity's build thread to see what you're really getting yourself into. Read other build threads, see what folks are doing. See what's worked and what hasn't --hint: Many built motors fail, leading to a second build -- very expensive! Another thing -- having a shop build you a motor deprives you of the experience of being able to say you actually built your car. Don't you want to be the first one to turn the key and hear something you put together come to life? (It's an awesome feeling, btw) You won't get that if you pay someone else to do it. You'll also be clueless as to what you're actually spending money on, and will continue down the mod path of, "I want" and "I need", without any real idea of what you really want or need for your car, other than to spend money and go faster. Not a good way to live life. I know this sounds like I'm beating you over the head -- and I am -- but when I see folks trying to go about their rebuilds in all the wrong ways, I at least try to knock some goddamn sense into them, since no one else here has the balls. Sub'd because I want to see where you take this -- I'd like to see you come out with a good, solid, reliable runner that's got enough power to please you, but not more than you really need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Yeah, what MrTris said. You'll blow your tranny up anyway. Any of the smaller turbos (VF-40 rebuild, BNR16/18g, VF-52) + OEM shortblock = win. Edited October 14, 2014 by compsurge I have to add sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yeah, what MrTris said. You'll blow your tranny up anyway. Mine's holding up just fine. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 MrTris never misses a beat. I neglected the sarcastic smilie face. OP, the 18g is plenty powerful. A proper tune will keep you in the safe and fun zone. 20g is a little too large for the OEM shortblock - the 18g is the biggest that comes recommended. I'm pretty sure if you can use a knee mill, you can assemble a motor. RTFM and carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 MrTris never misses a beat. I neglected the sarcastic smilie face. OP, the 18g is plenty powerful. A proper tune will keep you in the safe and fun zone. 20g is a little too large for the OEM shortblock - the 18g is the biggest that comes recommended. I'm pretty sure if you can use a knee mill, you can assemble a motor. RTFM and carry on. What he means is that you can bolt the heads to the already-assembled shortblock - Building a forged motor is both an art and science that is perfected after many thousands of dollars in blown motors and unhappy customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hi! Welcome! Don't you want to be the first one to turn the key and hear something you put together come to life? (It's an awesome feeling, btw) You won't get that if you pay someone else to do it. You'll also be clueless as to what you're actually spending money on, and will continue down the mod path of, "I want" and "I need", without any real idea of what you really want or need for your car, other than to spend money and go faster. Not a good way to live life. I really hope when / if my engine goes I'll be in a position to build my own motor. Unfortunately, leaving a car that's missing an engine out on the street for a couple months really isn't an option. My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Again, guys, if it's a just a daily driver, you're gonna be more than OK with an OEM sb, an little bigger snail, and a good tune. No need for this built block business unless you really wanna drop the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenster Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 MrTris! Glad you chimed in! Yes I've already read your threads. I also see you popping up on a lot of other ones too. I admire your humor, sarcasm, and knowledge. But I'm going to answer all your questions and revise my plan. The car won't be a daily driver when all said and done. It's more going to be a weekend car, date car, and maybe do a few track days. But not a daily. No on the giant turbo. No garret, no "brotated", and you can't give me a VF-40. Most likely going the BnR route. 300 HP? Why not? Not unachievable and not too much more than what they "claim" comes stock on the car. This car won't see winter either. As much as a AWD car belongs in the snow, this car will not see it. Young? Sure. 25 that's young. When I originally tore the engine out I had all these ideas of what I wanted to do. I admit my build plan was very ostentatious. Not so much anymore, mainly because the transmission worries me. Money? not worried about it really. Stancewars.... Eh, not my scene. I'm more of a spirited driver, not your go fast on the highway or in between red light kind of guy. Although, I'm sure everyone of us has done that before. In southern Ohio we have a ton of twisties and that's what I'm more attracted to. Performance and handling is what my goals are. Not 400 hp 300 tq stuff. Not in this car. Drivers licence. Yes lost them a few years ago but I have them back now with no points. The only reason I am possibly having someone else build it is, I simply don't have the time. For example, what if one of the cylinders is bad and needs a little bore action? I would feel a bit better with someone else doing the bottom end for me, since that would be their field of expertise. I'm getting upgraded parts to help prevent things from going wrong again. Hence the filtered oil feed line, oil baffle, lighter shoes, and more. I'm glad you beat me in the head. I can take it. Honestly I haven't read my original post since I posted it back in march. Very young and dumb I guess. Compsurge! thanks for the info about the 18g. The mill... it's a Bridgeport lol girlfriend's dad owns a machine shop (and now, let the trolling begin). I will start looking into build threads more since time is coming. So before I decide where to take it to or if I want to do it myself, I'll let you guys know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Are you replacing the oil pickup as well as the baffle? Generally baffle is recommended on cars seeing track / autocross time and the pickup is recommended on all cars. As for your tranny - look into Moore Blast plates: not a lot out there about them but supposedly they can handle a lot of HP. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2341424 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/lost-5th-gear-230601.html? My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo2701 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) For starters u can load windows onto your mac by dividing your hardrive and installing windows so open source is always an option. Not to say ap are bad but having a mac is not a reason to not open source. Second as far as turbos go I would highly reccomend a Borg Warner efr if u want the best of both worlds when it comes to spool/top end power. I really don't know much about the auto slush boxes but i know an handful of ppl on here have pretty high hp/tq levels and seems to be doing just fine. And never forget to not cheap out on suspension because what good is more power without being able to put it down. Hers my shopping list and other fun stuff if you are bored it's been a long expensive road but well worth it and don't let anyone deter you from your goal best of luck ! http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/swp-cosworth-wagon-203889.html Edited October 15, 2014 by hobo2701 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 What he means is that you can bolt the heads to the already-assembled shortblock - Building a forged motor is both an art and science that is perfected after many thousands of dollars in blown motors and unhappy customers. We can always use another data point for built motor reliability Are you replacing the oil pickup as well as the baffle? Generally baffle is recommended on cars seeing track / autocross time and the pickup is recommended on all cars. As for your tranny - look into Moore Blast plates: not a lot out there about them but supposedly they can handle a lot of HP. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2341424 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/lost-5th-gear-230601.html? Where did BAC 2.5 go? He would have a word or two about the plates. I think there is a thread on this somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 It's BAC5.2, and I don't think he's back from Germany yet. He drops in from time to time, but, not nearly long enough to post on things. He should be back stateside by next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenster Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Are you replacing the oil pickup as well as the baffle? Generally baffle is recommended on cars seeing track / autocross time and the pickup is recommended on all cars. As for your tranny - look into Moore Blast plates: not a lot out there about them but supposedly they can handle a lot of HP. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2341424 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/lost-5th-gear-230601.html? Yeah the the pick up is on the list too. And Ill look into those blast plates. Anything to make the tranny stronger is cool with me. Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Where did BAC 2.5 go? He would have a word or two about the plates. I think there is a thread on this somewhere. This thread is as close as I can find. Some think they don't work some think they do. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2659285 My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenster Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 This thread is as close as I can find. Some think they don't work some think they do. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2659285 The blast plates are for the manuals? Or can it be used with the 5eat too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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