Want a wagon... but...

[BMG13]

Hey everyone,

 

I have been stalking these forums for a while now because I am very interested in getting a 4th gen Legacy wagon. The forums have been extremely helpful, but have also made me a bit nervous about making a decision on what to get.

 

A little background: My wife and I are selling her Ford Focus to get something more utilitarian. I want something that is still fun to drive, but she really does not care about that as much (although she doesn't want a minivan). We are basically in the early stages of needing a "family car"; we have 2 large dogs, and travel between MN and WI often for family events, so reliability is very important and MPGs are mildly important.

 

I have wanted a sporty wagon since I saw a Audi RS4 Avant with matte black paint and gun metal rims in Switzerland about 2 years ago. But not only is that not available in the US, but is WAY out of my price range.

 

Thankfully Subaru offers the LGT wagon.

 

I have some concerns about reliability with the LGTs though, especially if you do not know a lot about the previous owner's maintenance history.

 

Considering your experience with your Subarus, could I get some expert advice on the following:

 

Ideally I want a 4th gen LGT wagon w/MT. If I find one around 100k miles, how wary would you be of it lasting another few years with out major issues?

 

If I can set the sportiness aside, how much more practical is the 2.5i in terms of reliability?

 

How much difference does a manual make with the 2.5i vs the automatic? Is the auto a slouch compared to the manual in the 2.5i?

 

Would you LGT owners out there consider anything less than a GT now that you have owned one, even if can be less reliable?

 

I really do not want to buy something and sink a lot of cash into it fixing it right away (and I know that can happen with any used car).

 

I am also considering 4Runners and Acura MDXs for their 4wd, reliability, and utility, but the LGT wagon really has me hooked right now!

 

Thanks!

[boxkita]

Hey everyone,

 

I have been stalking these forums for a while now because I am very interested in getting a 4th gen Legacy wagon. The forums have been extremely helpful, but have also made me a bit nervous about making a decision on what to get.

 

A little background: My wife and I are selling her Ford Focus to get something more utilitarian. I want something that is still fun to drive, but she really does not care about that as much (although she doesn't want a minivan). We are basically in the early stages of needing a "family car"; we have 2 large dogs, and travel between MN and WI often for family events, so reliability is very important and MPGs are mildly important.

 

I bot mine new in 2004 and hauled family, friends, and 85lb dog for 100k miles. Other than a transmission rebuild at 97k (after a few track days), it ran fine.

 

I have wanted a sporty wagon since I saw a Audi RS4 Avant with matte black paint and gun metal rims in Switzerland about 2 years ago. But not only is that not available in the US, but is WAY out of my price range.

 

Thankfully Subaru offers the LGT wagon.

 

I have some concerns about reliability with the LGTs though, especially if you do not know a lot about the previous owner's maintenance history.

 

Considering your experience with your Subarus, could I get some expert advice on the following:

 

Ideally I want a 4th gen LGT wagon w/MT. If I find one around 100k miles, how wary would you be of it lasting another few years with out major issues?

 

If the maintenance records are there, and the condition of the car looks good and a reputable shop says it's good, then ok. Be sure to get a list of updates/repairs the shop would recommend doing. A dealer will have a different list than an independent shop. At a min, a 100k mile car should have the timing belt done. A tune to remove the OEM miss should be done. Be sure the oil changes have been consistent. Check turbo shaft for play. If the engine was replaced, but nothing else, you're buying a problem. If the turbo was replaced and nothing else, you're buying a problem.

 

If I can set the sportiness aside, how much more practical is the 2.5i in terms of reliability?

 

No turbo and less options. What's that worth?

 

How much difference does a manual make with the 2.5i vs the automatic? Is the auto a slouch compared to the manual in the 2.5i?

 

Non-turbo, so everything is going to be slower. After buying a used 2.5i, you'll wish you have bought the turbo.

 

Would you LGT owners out there consider anything less than a GT now that you have owned one, even if can be less reliable?

 

I'd buy another GT again. I keep fixing mine rather than moving on, as I've found nothing to replace its functionality. however, I can afford to keep it running after spending alot of money making it into a track car (something it wasn't made to do). Even if I hadn't gone the track car route, keeping it solves 90% of my vehicle requirements.

 

I really do not want to buy something and sink a lot of cash into it fixing it right away (and I know that can happen with any used car).

 

I am also considering 4Runners and Acura MDXs for their 4wd, reliability, and utility, but the LGT wagon really has me hooked right now!

 

Thanks!

 

An LGT wagon limited (leather with sunroof) is a pretty good vehicle. You have to watch the oil change interval and keep up on the maintenance. There are a number of forum members who have 200k or more on their turbo cars doing just that. There's another large group that made 100k on theirs and then started modifying it as it was no longer the primary car.

 

You can find a good running, well maintained wagon in the 10k range pretty easily (for sale forum). Be sure to read in the 4th gen forum about maintaining your car.

 

Good luck with your search!

[drunkinmonk]

I was in your situation. I have a 2007 gmc Acadia auto awd 7-pax boring vehicle to drive. I have a 1996 Chevy Impala SS big, powerful, lots of torque but automatic is getting old so can't be my DD. I also owned a few caprice and roadmaster wagons sane engine as my Impala 7 pax.

I wanted to get a sporty manual car. Looked at the LGT then found out about the lgt wagon, searched for months couldn't find a black, manual in my price range. Discovered the outback xt and searched for 4 months. Found a black on black, 5mt, limited last owner had all service done and basically rebuilt engine by subie dealer 129k miles 2008 for $10k. I got it back in July now have 137k miles, crossed a stream, auto crossed it and can't wait for wonder driving. Long story short. I've owned my Impala for 10 years traveled 800 miles for it, was my pride and joy but now it's on Craigslist. You'll regret buying an suv the outback is the perfect vehicle that fits all my needs.

Don't take my word for it.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-clarkson/2007-08-01-clarkson-on-the-perfect-car

[BMG13]

After buying a used 2.5i, you'll wish you have bought the turbo.

 

A small part of me was hoping you wouldn't say that, but it is what I was thinking

 

You'll regret buying an suv the outback is the perfect vehicle that fits all my needs.

Don't take my word for it.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-clarkson/2007-08-01-clarkson-on-the-perfect-car

 

Love Top Gear UK! I am open to the Outbacks as well, and like you said, they are much more common. Leaning a bit toward the Legacy because of the lower stance though. Wouldn't turn down a nice black MT XT though for the right price!

[boxkita]

I'd dump my wagon for 20k :-)

[GEE-OTTO]

Dont buy into the LGT wagon hype pipe dream you want reliability and cheaper OVERALL cost to own go 2.5i. Yes those few times youre at a stoplight and that guy in a Avalon is there and you could potentially dust him would feel great and yes passing without downshifting to 3rd is nice after that you have a turbo to worry about.

 

Now I am not bashing here at all but given your first post im just saying if you want to forget about a oil change here and there and haul stuff and be able to go in the snow and you have considered other options but the Legacy Wagon is the pearl of your eye dont forget about a 2.5i wagon.

 

 

Transmission wise the the 5MT in the wagon is stout the 4EAT is stout both have long lifespans with the 4EAT slightly slosh-box like lol. Yes the power is down and youll feel it at first IF you come from say a V6 Toyota Avalon but youll assimilate and all will be normal.

 

You cant beat the fact that most LGT parts fit our 2.5is while being very cheap to own. Typical maintenances are easier to perform on the engine and other aspects hold up well between both models. In the worse case you lose an engine a Ej253 is a hell of a lot cheaper than a EJ255 (complete engines).

 

Now the LGT isnt a money hole unless you allow it to implode and morph into such. Neglect is your worse enemy with a a turbo Subaru the body can take it the suspension can take it the engine can not! Once its bad it blows Now keep up with routine oil checks/changes fix things as they break youll have a worry free LGT ownership.

 

Cheap, reliable, not much effort = 2.5i

Not so cheap, more so reliable , more attention, hell of a lot of fun = LGT

[dgoodhue]

The 05-09 OBXT can be had with the MT/turbo & it would make your search easier to find lower mile example. The LGT MT wagon was 05 only. You can always lower the outback to legacy levels. I personally like the looks of the OBXT lower to legacy height over the LGT wagon.

[BarManBean]

Keep in mind that OBXTs will also have different brakes and a different transmission as well. Neither is 100% a good or bad thing, just worth noting. The brakes will allow you to run 16" wheels (great for winter setups) and the transmission has shorter gearing--great for get-up-and-go, but can be a little "shift happy". Aftermarket exhausts are limited for the Outbacks due to the rear bumper design as well, in case you are into that. You'll also need to run tires with a larger overall outside diameter to keep everything happy. This can cause it's own issues if you are hoping to cram wider tires on the car--the tradeoff is ride comfort as a result of the generally larger sidewalls.

 

All that said, lowering an outback is pretty simple--grab a suspension of your choice, a whiteline RC/BS kit, and go to town. And lowered outbacks look great!

[stm25rs]

A small part of me was hoping you wouldn't say that, but it is what I was thinking

 

 

 

Love Top Gear UK! I am open to the Outbacks as well, and like you said, they are much more common. Leaning a bit toward the Legacy because of the lower stance though. Wouldn't turn down a nice black MT XT though for the right price!

 

There's a great looking Black OBXT 5MT for sale right now.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/pa-2005-subaru-outback-xt-limited-5spd-43k-215410.html

[c-lo]

I have a 5MT GT wagon. 240k. most of what I've had to do is in my sig. below. my goal is 350k.

[elightbo]

My wife and I recently purchased a '05 2.5i with automatic. If I had it my way, we would definitely have purchased manual, but I have yet to convince my wife that it's the way to go. That being said, I LOVE the car. Like almost in a bad way. It's my wife's car, and I hate that my kids are in there trashing it

 

For me, I sometimes wish I had purchased the GT when I'm driving it short distances. But, when we go on family trips, and I'm enjoying the car while getting around 30MPG (and don't need premium) I don't regret the decision at all. I decided that this is the best car for for my family, and if I want a faster car I can get myself a Miata or something some day. I just need to remember that when I'm seeing all the beautiful GTs all up in this forum

[elightbo]

I have a 5MT GT wagon. 240k. most of what I've had to do is in my sig. below. my goal is 350k.

 

That is so cool to hear that you've got that many miles. We just purchased our '05 with 58,000, and I would love to get that kind of milage out of it. Car payments suck! Have you had any rust problems? The driver's side door has been rusting a bit on the inside, and I'd like to get that fixed up.

[c-lo]

i have a couple spots of rust forming on the driverside back wheel well. those rubber guards fell off sometime ago and I never replaced. them.

[BMG13]

Great insight from everyone here! Thank you!

 

This sums it up pretty well:

 

Cheap, reliable, not much effort = 2.5i

Not so cheap, more so reliable , more attention, hell of a lot of fun = LGT

 

I guess a nice looking, clean and reliable 2.5i Legacy wagon or Outback (and they do look sweet lowered) is going to be priority. But if a turbo turns up with the right price and the owner seems to have maintained it well, then I would definitely consider it. Otherwise, 2.5i it is. Especially since my wife may be the one who ends up driving it all the time anyway!

 

I'd dump my wagon for 20k :-)

 

I wish I had that much cash to even consider it!

 

 

Transmission wise the the 5MT in the wagon is stout the 4EAT is stout both have long lifespans with the 4EAT slightly slosh-box like lol. Yes the power is down and youll feel it at first IF you come from say a V6 Toyota Avalon but youll assimilate and all will be normal.

 

I guess I have to look at it as this potential Subaru is replacing a 08 Focus, so in that regard, it will be very easy to assimilate to the 2.5i. I have heard about the slosh-box of the auto, but as long as it is reliable I think I could live with that. I like to think that I could offset my want of the turbo power with the manual (to keep the driving a little more engaging).

 

I think I am going to have to find a 2.5i of each an auto and manual to see how much better (or not) the non-turbo feels with the MT.

 

Our other car is a 2001 Acura 3.2CL Type-S, so I could also continue to live with out the turbo since the Acura is on par performance wise with the LGT... although I am sure a MT LGT is still quite a bit more fun! Also, its not like I am a stop light racer or anything... and I am never going to have the fastest car. But it is fun to put the pedal down on back roads every now an then!

[BMG13]

For me, I sometimes wish I had purchased the GT when I'm driving it short distances. But, when we go on family trips, and I'm enjoying the car while getting around 30MPG (and don't need premium) I don't regret the decision at all. I decided that this is the best car for for my family, and if I want a faster car I can get myself a Miata or something some day. I just need to remember that when I'm seeing all the beautiful GTs all up in this forum

 

I think that is exactly how I will have to think!

[dgoodhue]

I have a 2.5i as my daily driver. I have a truck that is my toy that much faster than much legacy . I have the MT and in 1st and 2nd gear it accelerates decently. On the highway the 170hp and drag of AWD, it really shows. It accelerates adequately on the highway. It has enough torque to pass other cars in the highway and accelerate in top gear. I rarely downshift to third on the highway, it makes a bunch of noise and it really isn't fun to wind it out at those speeds. If I had the money, I would have bought the LGT. Their was a big difference in price ($12k) with my current finances. If I was buying a 4th gen I would spend the extra $2k.

 

That being said, it sounds like this for your wife. If she doesn't care about speed, buy her the 2.5i. It's needs less frequent oil changes, less maintenance, cheaper gas, & is easier to find and buy. The 05/06 turbo models require immediate attention (banjo bolt/oil line inspection). Plus you dont have to worry as nearly much about if the car your buy is some else's race car that is a ticking time bomb. At over 100k miles the turbo could go at any momement. (Some turbo are approaching 200k, but it not he norm many have failed shortly after 100k). If the turbo isn't replaced at the first sign of problems it will take out the motor. Take money you save and put it towards your own fun to drive car and be practical towards some other bill/vacation/savings/retirement/etc.

[elightbo]

I think that is exactly how I will have to think!

 

Now that you're getting a wagon, you'll need one of these! http://www.subarupartsamerica.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=MorePartInfo&PartID=488022&siteid=216122&catalogid=5511

[BMG13]

Plus you dont have to worry as nearly much about if the car your buy is some else's race car that is a ticking time bomb. At over 100k miles the turbo could go at any momement. (Some turbo are approaching 200k, but it not he norm many have failed shortly after 100k). If the turbo isn't replaced at the first sign of problems it will take out the motor. Take money you save and put it towards your own fun to drive car and be practical towards some other bill/vacation/savings/retirement/etc.

 

Those turbos... so good but so bad! The scales definitely keep tipping to practicality. I appreciate the insight!

[OBXT 05]

I have an Outback XT with the MT. I love it!!! I have 3 kids and they all fit well. Lots of room for storage, long trips are comfortable. Having the Turbo is nice, but I drive fast so it fits. Paying for Premium is not that bad, Avg $20 more a month. If its MPG, then go with the 2.5i. I am not a fan of the auto's since I had a Forester XT with the Auto and it blew on me at 92K. Gave it back and got the Outback, too much of a lag between reverse and drive. My wife even states she likes the car, compared to her mini van. Also look at the crash ratings of your other choices vs the Subaru's. It will be a sad day if we have a 4th kid, because there is no way I'm Buying a B9 TriCRAPPA. Enjoy your new car!!!