Oil Consumption

[rob-2]

I've researched and it seems generally acceptable that in 4-5K of driving you will consume up to 1QT of oil.

 

I've got 4300 on a new motor build. Stage 2 protune with forged pistons.

 

When I checked the oil at 2300 miles, last checked at 1400 miles, I was shocked to find I was down a 1 QT oil. Previously at the full side and now just below low. Prior oil change at 1500 miles burned no oil.

 

It's going into the shop tomorrow for them to 'inspect' the car. It's got 6-7K left on the warranty.

 

What do I need them to do?

What fixes would resolve this?

 

The thing that comes to mind for me right now its that we've recently had a cold snap and my motor sounds a tad dieselish for the first 5 minutes of driving. I keep revs and throttle light until it warms up but I do hop on the highway some mornings.

 

Think my forged pistons are taking longer then usual to expand in these conditions?

 

I quickly checked to see if I was getting smoke out my oil fill tube and I'm not. I am however getting puffs of air pressure. Normal?

[JmP6889928]

What kind of oil did you use for break in? When we build aluminum 8 cylinder race engines, we run them about 2 hours up and down on rpm on cheap non detergent oil to set the rings, even running them on the track sometimes for a few practice hot laps, then change over to synthetic oil (Castrol Syntec 20W-50 for our 850 hp circle track engines). We've had excellent luck breaking in engines this way and have only had a single failure in the past 3 seasons and that was due to losing a wrist pin clip.

 

Synthetic oil is so damn slippery that it sometimes takes a lot longer to seat the rings to the cylinders but don't despair as they will eventually seat. It is just disheartening to see oil consumption on a new engine. Synthetic oil can also cause parts that are failing to not be as noticeable due to being so slippery. Bearings run longer than they should, cams run longer than they should, and they still spin when they should be making enough noise to be shutting it off.

 

Drive it through 3-4 OCI and see if it comes around and if not, then have it checked to see what's going on.

[rob-2]

It was broken in hard on 5w30 cheap dino oil for 500 miles break in tune. Then normally driven for 1500 miles on cheap dino oil 5w30. After 2k it was put on a stage 2 protune map. It was O'Rilley's house brand if I recall. Motor builder approved and did the oil changes.

 

It's now running T6 5w40 syn oil.

 

My concern with waiting to see if it resolves itself is the fact I only get 12k/12month warranty and I drive some 2-3k/month. Meaning I'd only have 2 OCI left before I'm basically out of warranty.

 

Is a compression check too much to ask?

 

I've not no visual signs of oil. I'm catless and I don't have any blue smoke on start up.

[JmP6889928]

Sounds like you did the right kind of break in and the rings should be seated with that kind of oil and changes. Does it run strong? No knock or noises? If you do have a compression check, I'm sure that you will want to be standing right next to him when he does it so that you can see exactly what they are reading and that they can't bullshit you. Make sure the check is done correctly (operating temp and TB open) but I would guess that you're fine on the compression.

 

Work it out with the engine builder that you want to give him the benefit of the doubt right now but that he had better stand behind it for a bit longer or the alternative is to take it down NOW and re-check all of his build. I would bet that he will have no problem with you driving it a little longer (say 18 mos./18K) and standing behind it IF he's confident in his own work.

[Max Capacity]

I use about .4qts over 4000 miles on my ej257, it has about 23,000 miles on it.

[rob-2]

I use about .4qts over 4000 miles on my ej257, it has about 23,000 miles on it.

 

Did it consume more early on?

[Max Capacity]

No.

 

FWIW, I don't think any rebuild is ever as good as the factory. I think most of the comsumption is from the heads. I have a factory ej257.

 

I don't see any smoke on start up.

[rob-2]

Well nothing appeared out of the norm. We're going to monitor and I might just have to live with it.

[KoukiS14]

What turbo is on it? I think anything that flows a significant amount of air is more likely to consume oil by pulling vapor out of the crankcase. Big airflow through the turbo inlet will create heavy vacuum in the crankcase. Any amount of blow-by will contribute to positive flow through the case, pulling lots of oil vapor through the intake. Pull your intercooler couplers and I'll bet you'll see a ton of buildup already. Something like the Moroso setup that recycle oil back to the crankcase would be the solution if that's the case.

[Max Capacity]

I can say my IC is dry inside. It was off a few months back, just the very light coat of oil.

 

But do agree with your thoughts about the massive amount of air and boost pressure.

[rob-2]

What turbo is on it? I think anything that flows a significant amount of air is more likely to consume oil by pulling vapor out of the crankcase. Big airflow through the turbo inlet will create heavy vacuum in the crankcase. Any amount of blow-by will contribute to positive flow through the case, pulling lots of oil vapor through the intake. Pull your intercooler couplers and I'll bet you'll see a ton of buildup already. Something like the Moroso setup that recycle oil back to the crankcase would be the solution if that's the case.

 

VF40 - stock. Be it putting out 16psi at 4500 feet.

 

Oddly the TMIC is bone dry. O2 sensors show no signs of oil burning. No oil build up in the down pipe.

[JmP6889928]

VF40 - stock. Be it putting out 16psi at 4500 feet.

 

Oddly the TMIC is bone dry. O2 sensors show no signs of oil burning. No oil build up in the down pipe.

 

Do you park on concrete at night? Are there any stains from leakage? If your IC is dry inside, the turbo seals are good. Do you still have your undertray on? Look at your valve covers and see if they might be seeping and any on the inside of the undertray.

 

I know, I know....sounds like pie in the sky but exhaust every possible thing before you go ahead and have your tech pull it down and then find out that it was something that didn't require it. Usually when technicians have to tear something down that they built because of a warranty, they generally are not in a good mood (fricken fracken do the damn thing for free MF azzhole jerkoff etc.etc.) and tend to cut corners a little bit.

[flipxstar23]

I have the same issue of oil consumption, I have a 2004 Subaru Legacy L 35th Anniversary Edition Wagon 2.5L 5 speed manual non-turbo, it has 188,300+ miles on it and bought it 3 months ago when it was still 185k+ on it. I had my first oil changed around beginning of aug. after 3 weeks of that I had this feeling I have to check the oil and next thing I know my oil level was at the tip of the dip stick, I had to refill the oil with the remaining 2 quarts I have left but not all of it. After awhile I would check often and it was fine then a month after which is now I find it weird how i went from full to half way or maybe on low, keep in mind that 2 weeks ago I was still on full, I even had a mechanic take a look at it also cause I made him installed H.I.D on it, so now I'm worried how did I burned oil that much in 2 weeks. Another thing, for the past 3 months I've been driving it every single day to work but like 2 miles away then on fridays or sundays going from NY to NJ but I stopped driving my car like last week since I started driving my girl's car for the time being trying not to give more mileage on the car.

 

P.S. I checked under the car and even left a box flat laying underneath the oil pan going to the transmission, it was completely dry, no leak underneath. So maybe had something to do with the cylinder?

[Max Capacity]

I have the same issue of oil consumption, I have a 2004 Subaru Legacy L 35th Anniversary Edition Wagon 2.5L 5 speed manual non-turbo, it has 188,300+ miles on it and bought it 3 months ago when it was still 185k+ on it. I had my first oil changed around beginning of aug. after 3 weeks of that I had this feeling I have to check the oil and next thing I know my oil level was at the tip of the dip stick, I had to refill the oil with the remaining 2 quarts I have left but not all of it. After awhile I would check often and it was fine then a month after which is now I find it weird how i went from full to half way or maybe on low, keep in mind that 2 weeks ago I was still on full, I even had a mechanic take a look at it also cause I made him installed H.I.D on it, so now I'm worried how did I burned oil that much in 2 weeks. Another thing, for the past 3 months I've been driving it every single day to work but like 2 miles away then on fridays or sundays going from NY to NJ but I stopped driving my car like last week since I started driving my girl's car for the time being trying not to give more mileage on the car.

 

P.S. I checked under the car and even left a box flat laying underneath the oil pan going to the transmission, it was completely dry, no leak underneath. So maybe had something to do with the cylinder?

 

You said, " I had my first oil changed" how do you know they filled it ?

 

Some of us have learned our car's, GT's, use oil at different rates. It's not the same every week.

[rob-2]

Do you park on concrete at night? Are there any stains from leakage? If your IC is dry inside, the turbo seals are good. Do you still have your undertray on? Look at your valve covers and see if they might be seeping and any on the inside of the undertray.

 

I know, I know....sounds like pie in the sky but exhaust every possible thing before you go ahead and have your tech pull it down and then find out that it was something that didn't require it. Usually when technicians have to tear something down that they built because of a warranty, they generally are not in a good mood (fricken fracken do the damn thing for free MF azzhole jerkoff etc.etc.) and tend to cut corners a little bit.

 

No oil under the car and when it was up on the rack i didn't see anything on the block

 

I don't want them to rip it apart. If it holds 1qt per 2300 miles I can live with that. Last motor they built for a LGT is burning 1qt per 3800 miles if I recall correctly. Same build.

[flipxstar23]

You said, " I had my first oil changed" how do you know they filled it ?

 

Some of us have learned our car's, GT's, use oil at different rates. It's not the same every week.

 

I was right there next to the guy changing the oil and everything, it's not like I was outside waiting to get it done. If you want to know what oil I used, it's Mobil 1 5w-30 Synthetic Oil and Purolator PureOne as oil filter. As for how many miles I've put in since the first oil change, it would be around 2500+ miles on it already. If I still didn't explained what I did or what I use then let me know but other than that, I still don't know why I burn oil like that.

[rob-2]

I was right there next to the guy changing the oil and everything, it's not like I was outside waiting to get it done. If you want to know what oil I used, it's Mobil 1 5w-30 Synthetic Oil and Purolator PureOne as oil filter. As for how many miles I've put in since the first oil change, it would be around 2500+ miles on it already. If I still didn't explained what I did or what I use then let me know but other than that, I still don't know why I burn oil like that.

 

Not to side track you on this but my motor is a rebuilt motor. Only the block and rods are original.

 

M1 in a block with 188k is going to burn. M1 is thin oil after a few miles.

[flipxstar23]

Not to side track you on this but my motor is a rebuilt motor. Only the block and rods are original.

 

M1 in a block with 188k is going to burn. M1 is thin oil after a few miles.

 

So you're saying it's normal for the oil to burn like that even if it's like every 1k miles I've put in? If that's a yes then, what would you recommend? get the M1 High Mileage Synthetic oil? or something else? I appreciate all the advice, thanks in advance.

[rob-2]

So you're saying it's normal for the oil to burn like that even if it's like every 1k miles I've put in? If that's a yes then, what would you recommend? get the M1 High Mileage Synthetic oil? or something else? I appreciate all the advice, thanks in advance.

 

Yes your 188K motor is a little looser then a newer motor.

 

I would be looking to buy a non-m1 motor oil. You need to know M1 is design for MPG which means it starts it's life as a 5w30 and quickly becomes a 5w20 so it burns on you.

 

I like castrol, Valvoline etc. All good stuff. Stay away from M1.

[Max Capacity]

So you're saying it's normal for the oil to burn like that even if it's like every 1k miles I've put in? If that's a yes then, what would you recommend? get the M1 High Mileage Synthetic oil? or something else? I appreciate all the advice, thanks in advance.

 

Just about anything but Mobil 1 5w-30 in these cars.

 

But yours is not turboed, so any oil should be fine.

[GTTuner]

The last three engines I have built use less than 1/2 quart in 3000 miles. My personal car, with about 60K on the rebuild uses about 1/4 quart in 3K.

 

It's all in how you seat the rings. The first fifty miles is do or die for seating the rings in these motors. If you do it wrong it will always use oil.

 

My theory on oil usage is it is inherit in the design of a boxer engine. Since the cylinders lay horizontal not vertical the oil rings have a harder time controling the oil. Just my speculation.

[shadowsports]

93k on my '08. Check all fluid levels regularly. I drive my car pretty hard sometimes. I have no oil consumption between changes. 3k-3.5k. Whenever I read posts about oil consumption or what's acceptable, I never understand how so many others experience this and I don't. I use dyno not synthetic, car is always in S#. My last vr6 Jetta didn't burn oil either. I sold it with 130k on the clock. I buy my cars new and don't take them over 65mph for the first 1k miles. My father taught me this more than 25yrs ago. Their cars don't burn oil either and he drives cross country regularly. Check my oil with car warm, flat ground, sitting for about 20 min. Remove dip stick, wipe, reinsert, read. It's always where I filled it to the last time I changed it. 3/4 hash marks like clock work. Inside of my IC is dry too. I have no explanation for this and no way to relate to how many of you have cars that burn oil. I just don't get it.

[rob-2]

The last three engines I have built use less than 1/2 quart in 3000 miles. My personal car, with about 60K on the rebuild uses about 1/4 quart in 3K.

 

It's all in how you seat the rings. The first fifty miles is do or die for seating the rings in these motors. If you do it wrong it will always use oil.

 

My theory on oil usage is it is inherit in the design of a boxer engine. Since the cylinders lay horizontal not vertical the oil rings have a harder time controling the oil. Just my speculation.

 

Are you running forged pistons?

 

My motor was broken in.

 

My current theory is the cold starts in the AM's have a little more blow by because the forged pistons are taking longer to expand. Motor has a little tick at 42f then it did at 55f. Goes away when warmed up.

[GTTuner]

Are you running forged pistons?

 

My motor was broken in.

 

My current theory is the cold starts in the AM's have a little more blow by because the forged pistons are taking longer to expand. Motor has a little tick at 42f then it did at 55f. Goes away when warmed up.

 

 

Yes I am running forged pistons but I went with 4032 alloy not 2618. I run stock piston to wall clearances. My motor is always quiet on a cold start. I really do not recomend the 2618 for street use, it is a nitrous/drag alloy and it looses it "properties" after a finite number of heating/cooling cycles and the become very brittle.

 

Like I said, it is how you break it in in the first 50 miles that is critical.

 

This is the method I use: http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm

 

Brief full throttle acceleration at lower RPM's is considered good break-in practice. Vary the RPM's and allow cool down in between WOT runs.

[flipxstar23]

I see. Well I'm doing an oil change soon anyway since I'm almost up to 3k miles. I'll try out a different oil brand, any suggestions which one? Castrol or Pennzoil? I was hoping to keep on using Mobil 1 and get the Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W-30 or the Mobile 1 Extended Performance 5W-30, what you guys think? Will it make a difference getting one of those two or be better off with different brand oil?