PDREALTOR

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5519897&postcount=371

 

*ahem*

 

Alright, cya folks. Don't worry, I won't be returning here.

Right? I find it really odd that the truth is being deleted.

XRT is not a site-approved vendor, and like every other non-site-sponsoring vendor, comments/promotion about and links to their product and/or services are inappropriate and will be fully moderated. This protects our vendors who are providing these services and enables them to operate in their market segment, free from competition from "outside" vendors.

Why is my reply to brisvegas deleted? It addressed his post which was directed at me. Xrt is mentioned throughout this entire thread. Why are you cherry picking?

Yep - I'm outta here. You can find my updates on Facebook Subaru International Tuning.

Have you had the TH tune before? I'm just curious as to what the difference is besides response time and communication efforts.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, I have not. For me, I have no need or desire to try two tunes...... Even if customer service was on the same level.

My 2017 Legacy CVT with the latest tune from XRT just went 0-60 in 6.68 seconds..... with a ski box on top and a 1/2 tank of gas.

I started in the mid 7s so I'm really pleased with where I'm at today. The CVT is the sharpest it's ever been and the car is flat out hauling serious ass.

There's been some false information going around regarding XRT tunes and CVT transmissions. I can assure anyone who has been told or otherwise come across this information it is not true.

I've been tuning with XRT as an experimental CVT car since late November. My car has done all sorts of weird stuff as a result of XRT experimental tunes and there is no damage to my CVT or any other part of my car.

Anyone who has been influenced by false information should know the truth and make an educated decision. This business of lying to encourage others to use one tuner over the other is BS.

Use who you like - be informed when you make your decision. I'll continue to post my updates as I have them.

I'm also waiting on TH's latest revision for the 3.6. I'm actually also curious about the new tune Subaru says will be debuted on the 2018 Legacy. Hopefully Matt can get his hands on that tune when it comes out and update ours with whatever new parameters they have, plus whatever he can develop off of it.

Ditto.

Can someone give me a good idea of what a stock tune should run? All I have done at this point is add the K&N drop in and I'm decently impressed so I want more but I'm not trying to go full race tuning or trying to get the max out of the engine. I like to be able to pass and when the person realizes their being passed I don't want to have to punch it and draw to much attention to myself.

I don't know what the total cost it. I think it depends on what kind of tune you want. He has a couple options last time I checked.

A large benefit of tuning your ECU is drive-ability improvements. This can be custom tuned to your liking.

For example (playing off your desire to pass but not draw attention) if you want to push the throttle 50% and stay between 3500-4500 until you let off it can be tuned that way.

You'll get a good power bump too. If you want to go premium fuel you can bump the timing and get a bit more power. XRT has before and after graphs on his website. You should visit the site and review the info.

I only used XRT, so I can only speak for my experience with him (Edward).

Edward really makes it easy. He'll setup your computer remotely so you can get right to loading ROMS and logging. He'll hop on the phone and drive with you if trying to customize your tune and the logging or words can't get you what you want.

I've had a couple cars tuned via the log/report method and it's hands down been the best thing I ever did to them modification wise. It would be the first thing I spent money on if I was looking for performance increase.

We here at XRT will keep you enabled :-)

 

we expect the same in return

Deal....

All that is needed for PDReator is the ProCharger Supercharger or Raptor's SC kit.

 

Possibly for 2017,we will have 2x Gen 5 SC.

 

It is only fitting that for 2017, we have a Gen 6 2017 SC :) XRT-SC

I want this ....

I believe I need the 2.5i now. I have one and he has limited time.

 

I would like to say thanks to those who participate in the 3.6 CVT program, especially PDRealtor. Thank you. Its been a fantastic ride and thank to those of you who have offered support publicly and privately. Those persons can tell you that I took things slowly in tuning and they was 100% communication - efficiently, effectively and productively.

 

I have started development for the 2.5i. I believe the 2.5i was created by another branch in Subie. Tuners now out of school. Its way more complex than the WRX, XV, 3.6 and others.

 

If any of you are willing to give of your time and videos like PDRealtor, I would appreciate it. I have limited time I can do such work, but the 2.5i I am being asked to give a little love too. I cannot do it with out you.

 

I am going to take a break today and just rest and chat with my XRT group. There are a bunch of good folks. Ahhh and we have one lady in the group. Its just fascinating to get up to international people talking 24hrs a day.

 

Again, Happy New years to everyone. Be safe.

Thanks Ed. You've been great. Cars running real nice and smooth. And, did I mention it's just a huge blast to drive??

Maybe I should remove my ski box and see how fast the car really is.

Headers and high - flow cats on the way.

Oh yes.... and some 5-40. :lol:

Those longer videos were made for XRT to evaluate. They were long and not very clear because they weren't made to show perfection. They were made to try and highlight some positive points and one area that still needs tweaked. They were made for the tuner.

Power delivery from stop to WOT and slow roll to WOT is perfected. It's performing like I never thought it could. Video below to for viewing.

A lot of the tuning work, as I mention above, has been getting the CVT to behave in different ways. Some may like a little more control of the trans via the pedal, while others may like a little less.

I believe, for the ones that want a little less control, the tune for the 6th gen CVT is perfected and will only need to be tweaked per car/location etc. XRT can chime in on that.

I like to have more control over my throttle. This doesn't equate to a 'jumpy' car. Please don't confuse it for that.

Because I've kept mentioning this to Ed he came up with some test tunes and one of them really caught my attention. The behavior is perfect, total control of the CVT with the throttle. But there is still one tiny item that needs ironed out. Ed will get it figured out in no time and it's effect does not impact overall tweaking of the CVT control.

Ed / XRT has been up twice all night on the phone with me perfecting my tune. He is very passionate about tuning and perfecting and this shows in his customer service.

Here's some video that's shorter and really highlights what's been perfected in this venture. Notice how much faster v8a is vs. v7.

WOT take offs -

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phuMBWiwWoM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phuMBWiwWoM[/ame]

Mid To Top Optomized - This tune is good to go It has the WOT takeoff optimization in it. It only lacks a some better CVT control via the throttle. This is what I mentioned some may prefer. Less control vs. more control.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To3-Iq-zE74]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To3-Iq-zE74[/ame]

Example of CVT control via throttle - This is several tunes after WOT takeoffs were perfected -

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_jkyo-de6c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_jkyo-de6c[/ame]

Actually, Matt/TH discovered that my 2.5 not only had S# Mode in my stock tune, but that my S Mode button was already toggling between S and S#, just like on the 3.6 (makes sense since that allows Subaru to more easily reuse ECU code). But both maps were identical in my stock tune so toggling them was pointless.

 

So Matt remapped my S# Mode. This means my 2.5 now has 3 SI Drive modes: I, S and S#. There's no icon to tell me when I'm in S#, and my car defaults to S whenever I kill the ignition (just like in all Subaru models with S#).

 

I Mode was useless in my stock tune. So Matt made it like my original S Mode, but with all the benefits of I Mode such as lower cruising rpms. He then made my S Mode like an S# Mode, and my S# is strictly for crazy moments because it's not just touchy, it holds gears and revs when braking into turns, etc. So I actually find myself in I Mode most of the time now. Never thought I'd see the day.

 

My car was the first time Matt discovered the S# code in a tune that wasn't supposed to have it, so I think that's what got him started on seeing if he could activate the mode in other cars. But I think you'd really need some sort of hardware to toggle the modes.

 

And before all you USDM 2.5 folks go bugging Matt for S#, bear in mind that my car's made in Japan, doesn't have Eyesight, and has an ECU that Matt hadn't seen since he last tuned a Euro-spec Subaru. So it might be an unusual case. I hope not, for everyone's sakes, but best to moderate your expectations.

 

 

 

 

That's what I used to think too. And with stock tunes, maybe. But having three very usable but completely different modes has been unexpectedly useful. It's much easier to chauffeur passengers around smoothly in I Mode. While S# solves many of my complaints about launching the CVT from traffic lights.

For that kind of crazy driving wouldn't it be easier to flip over to manual mode and use the paddles?

I'm trying to picture what you're saying but it seems counter-productive for an automatic. If the CVT is efficient for that type of driving it should drop gears/revs while on the brake and then come back to your desired power (gear) with working of the throttle. No ?

What we could really use is a fundamentally different way to launch our cars, such as the launch control feature that's built into EcuTek.

 

In the absence of that, all we can do is max out throttle inputs, then wait for the revs to rise asap. That's what S# gives me. It's still a conventional approach. And still not ideal, but worlds better than what I had.

 

WOT from stop in S (stock tune) used to slowly roll me forwards while gradually building the revs. There was no way to speed up the process, and getting past 4k rpm was painful, though it was better after that point.

 

WOT from stop in S# (TH tune) now jerks me forward immediately. Then bogs down a bit as the transmission hooks up. And then picks up again with increasing urgency. Getting past 4k rpm is now a relatively brisk affair. Throttle response is so abrupt that I can't drive constantly in S#, which is why I find SI Mode so useful. It allows me to have an uncivilised mode just for fast launches and quick getaways, and two modes for regular driving. I couldn't imagine having to pick just one throttle map to use 24/7 because there really is no single best one that works for every situation.

 

One thing that's really helped with WOT launches is the Raceseng lightweight crank and water pump pulleys I installed a week ago. Revs rise faster so the car gets to the sweet spot sooner. I'll post separately about that mod.

 

What's WOT from stop like for you? Sorry I don't have any 0-60 times to compare yet. Haven't hit the dyno yet either.

 

It's really great that we're finally sharing experiences from different tuners here. It's a win for everyone.

 

 

 

Sorry, that's what I meant but you explained it far better. When the ignition is off, my car does revert to whatever mode it was in before S# was selected.

From what you're describing your take off in s# is how mine used to be in the earlier tunes. Jumpy.

I've really been focusing a lot of my attention and feedback to Ed (XRT) on CVT drive ability and take offs/low speed WOT hits as opposed to overall power, which has been increasing also but to me as the customer doesn't seem like the challenge for tuning my car.

Or in other words, for me and my habits, the tuning needs to be done in the areas we're discussing here (CVT optimization) more so than top end balls out power..... though it does all tie together in the end.

My take off and low speed WOT hits have changed 110% and the best rom I've gotten has only a couple tiny hiccups on a WOT take off from stop.

Here's how I can best describe it using an analogy (and the behavior is normal to other cars).

When I go WOT from a stop or slow speed in auto the car will now act like a human blowing up a large balloon. Think of how you would blow up a balloon and that's exactly how my car is now behaving.

Blowing up a large balloon I would take a deep breath, then release the air with fierce pressure until I had no air left.

That's exactly what is happening now when I push WOT from stop or very slow speed. The car hesitates (in a good way) as if it's take a deep breath, the RPM needle shoots up and power is applied, for the most part, very smoothly. Again, a couple hiccups but they are very minor.

The key here is that the car is taking WOT input and jamming that RPM needle into the power zone to be applied at take off.

If that doesn't make sense I can try to clarify a bit more.

I just added a cat back exhaust and air filter, plus committed to using 92 octane fuel. Between that and XRT tuning I'm seeing some real good improvements.

One rom back I got a .4 second increase in 0-60. I'm now on later rom, v6a, and without a doubt it is faster than the v6... so... I'm expecting an even faster 0-60 from the latest logs.

XRT also has a lot of my CVT complaints dialed in. It's, upon my command, much more controllable vs. before optimization it was as is named - constant variable - always keeping the engine in efficiency mode. I can still keep the engine/cvt working efficiently without issue, but with the slight adjustment of the pedal the cvt becomes very predictable and controllable. Very easy to keep the car in power with little pedal work. Increments are about 500 rpms with little pedal down adjustments and it holds the rpms/power nicely vs. instantly dropping down gears taking the car out of power.

Huge drive ability improvement. Huge!

Some of the below info is the same as above, but this is what I posted in my thread over on XRT. There's charts with times over there too. http://www.xtremeracingtuning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=691&p=2129#p2129

Happy to see these times, Ed. Good job! My butt dyno agrees. The v6a times have got to be better. If not, forget the times and just go with my butt dyno. LOL.

The rom v6a feels much stronger in the 3rd gear pulls, and the there is a good improvement from a stopped WOT run (drag pull). The car is really flying in the top end in v6a vs. v6. Again, 3rd gear pulls are a huge improvement over just the last rom, v6!

Pedal position is controlling where the CVT gearing is almost precisely now, where as before the CVT just had a mind of its own and would shift up to keep the engine in efficiency mode. Now I can still adjust pedal position for engine efficiency, but also adjust pedal position to hold the down shift for a good amount of time. It's the best of both worlds in regards to the CVT. It takes some of the VARIABLE out of constant variable, and gives some control to the driver. This is a huge drive ability improvement in my opinion.

Every version is getting better. As I was typing this I just got a v7. :shock: :shock: :twisted:

Will keep reporting back here as I have good updates.

 

That's what I used to think too. And with stock tunes, maybe. But having three very usable but completely different modes has been unexpectedly useful. It's much easier to chauffeur passengers around smoothly in I Mode. While S# solves many of my complaints about launching the CVT from traffic lights.

Surmiser - how would you describe your launch from stoplights? How's the car behave if you WOT it from a stop?

Tuning and tuner "discussion" almost always ends up as a pissing contest as to whose tune is better.

 

Reality the only way to get a proper comparison is to do what BeastCoast is suggesting and doing some back to back testing. I'd like to see dyno runs with AFR to make sure any additional power being generated is not going too lean.

Plus you'll also want 0-60 times and some general drive-ability/subjective comparison for things like throttle response, etc.

 

Generally tuners don't like these comparisons unless their tune is best and inevitably it all ends up in tears for someone.

That's kind of what I was implying by a race to the top. Could turn out no so good for the guy whose car is being used. Even best intentions can go wrong sometimes in a situation where it's all about winning.

From what I could dig up the issue really isn't who has the better tune, it's who is and isn't providing timely communication.

Nice offer though. Interested to see who can push the limits the farthest in a race to the top.

I may be biased but my bias has nothing to do with the cost or lack of. My bias is based on my experience and my pre-choice research. Simple as that.

Customer service is big with me. It was clear in my research that there were some communication issues with TH. That's not my opinion, that's other peoples posted experiences.

There's other tuners tactrix will turn you on to and they don't know much about the newest 3.6 and 2.5 NA cars either.

I have no experience with either tuner, but personally I would go with Matt at TH if/when I get ready to tune. Matt clearly is capable of communicating without a language barrier and that to me is much more valuable because we can discuss what he is doing to my 30k car. Just my 2 cents from reading the tuners' posts in here

 

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

Communication means nothing if you can't get a hold of your tuner. Just saying....

West Minst sets you up with an entire group of guys to chat with any time of day. So you have their past experience as well as West's, who is always available via the same instant messaging app.

Can someone assist me in locating a good tuner in CT? I have found one location called "The Shop" but I have had a few people tell me i should stay away from there, however some people just have their own opinions and try to differ others from success. If anyone knows of this place could you please inform me of your experiences.

 

"Remember perfection is a perspective"

If you're looking for a remote tune you should also seriously consider contacting XRT tuning. His user name is west_minist here on this forum.

I've been real happy with his service and he really knows his stuff.

I've read of response times being real slow with Matt/TH. Something to consider.

You might be just within safe territory with 20mm spacers at stock height. Tough call. Just be prepared to have to insert spring stiffener collars in the rear.

 

I suspect that a stiffer rear sway bar might also save you from rear rubbing, because I only got rubbing with the 25mm spacers during aggressive cornering, and my rear sway bar was stock back then. I can't help but wonder if I'd have had better luck with the 22mm rear sway bar I'm now running. Anyway, if your rear sway bar's stock and you plan to upgrade, I suggest doing that first before decreasing wheel inset.

 

FYI, with my current wheels, I'm at the equivalent of 18.6mm spacers, which is definitely safe at stock height, and probably safe when lowered.

Thanks for all the great info.... very detailed and helpful!

I'm on the stock rear sway and have the 20mm on my floor waiting to be installed.

The car looks real good with the additional offset. Given you've posted both the 18.6 mm offset and the 25 mm offset pictures it's plenty to help me make an informed decision. I'm certainly leaning towards 25 at the moment.

I had the spacers custom made at a factory here. No brand.

 

Here are the 25mm hubcentric spacers themselves:

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/ac5582c6231e6618671f7300e3e434c5.jpg

 

Here's one of them mounted:

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/12a41ddf0b8a5bfac808a0906e714824.jpg

 

Here are some pics back when I still had the spacers on all four wheels:

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/a4647f6b512647fa9a2831d8e9189116.jpg

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/f492900026545e9e3ebb069c83a9c2b9.jpg

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/313d050ca304d2439c9324868015b528.jpg

 

And here's a pic when I only had the spacers on my front wheels; I removed them from the rears because of rubbing.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/aeb0422c7bac15b56a51673e24fd18ab.jpg

Nice! Thanks for all the info!

Do you think 20mm would cause rubbing at stock height? I really like that look, but don't want to rub.

Can't wait to see how it turns out after you lower it. I'm sure it will look excellent!

Do you have any pictures with the 25mm spacers? What brand were you using?