Brisvegas

With the advent of my wife working from home 100% of the time and increased gas prices, we are driving our cars a lot less these days. We easily hit the time interval between oil changes way before the mileage interval. I was curious what people think about how often I reasonably need to change the oil and filter. Does synthetic oil change the interval at all? I assume it is more important on our EJ25 Forester XT, but that is just an assumption.

 

Anyway, opinions welcome.

Here are 3 random opinions ... (the internet is full of them, so take your pick)

https://www.oceanworksberkeley.com/blog/does-oil-go-bad-sitting-in-an-engine

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a24676402/old-motor-oil/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/oil-change-truths/

As for me, I just follow the Subaru service manual :lol:

For those curious, they do use a flush kit and it's not cheap. Granted I'll have an extra qt or so with the lines and cooler, but it took 10 qts of fluid at 24 bucks each, as well as some 68 dollar parts charge for the "kit." I'm not sure if that's just them amortizing the cost of whatever apparatus is used to actually flush across their very few customers who get this done or what....

Thanks, I appreciate the update.

When I read over my paperwork I did notice a charge for a gasket. So I called the dealer today and asked more about how they perform the CVT service. They informed me the pan is removed, then cleaned along with the screen and then a flush is performed. So it sounds to me like essentially they perform both service as one.

I find the fact that you and Dougkelly20, and donglow2 are all "flushers" very interesting. It makes me wonder how many other forum members have had a flush done???

As I have mentioned in my posts, I am not a "lifetime fluid" believer, and will certainly be having a transmission service at about the 60,000 mile mark, but up til now, I have not considered the "flush option." I'm still not fully convinced, but now I'm not 100% against it, like I was in the very recent past. I will be asking a lot of questions to some Subaru transmission experts before I commit either way.

One thing I would suggest to you is that you find out "exactly" what transmission service your dealer did on your vehicle. I know you said that they told you that a "flush" was performed, but from what I have read online recently, sometimes "flush" and "drain and fill" seem to be sometimes used interchangeably depending on which person at the dealership people talk to.

The basic question that I would be asking is "was a flushing machine used on my vehicle?" ... as per the following link

https://www.transmissionrepaircostguide.com/what-is-a-transmission-flush/

There are a lot of false misconceiving statements and opinions in auto repair. This is one of them. The person who wrote this article is feeding on people who have never done a flush and can be deceived.

Damn You donglow2 ... just when I thought I had pretty much decided that flushing was a definite No No, I am now starting to delve deeper into the subject and beginning to have second thoughts :lol:

https://www.torquenews.com/14093/sealed-automatic-transmission-flush-deception-revealed-mechanic

https://advancedtransmission.com/2019/04/29/transmission-repair-do-whats-best-for-vehicle/

 

Subaru American really screwed up by saying the fluid is lifelong if not towing or hard driving. There are a few reputable dealers in the USA who want their customers to experience the long life Subaru's were known for and recommend fluid flushes to their customers even though Subaru of America does not say it is necessary. Even a fluid drain and fill is a lot better than not addressing the issue at all. The external pump machine used by dealers in fluid flush adds very little to the extra cost. The labor and the extra fluid costs the most. The procedure starts with a drain and fill to get new fluid in the pan. Taking off the return from the cooler (actually, it is more of warmer in a Subaru than a cooler) and rerouting and putting it back is difficult because the space is tight.

 

 

I have had some other bad experiences from both Subaru and Toyota actual dealers.

 

Before I learned about flushing I did a drain and fill on my 2013 Impreza at a 165,000 miles. I used Redline Non-Slip CVT. The transmission had been slipping but this completely fixed it. I believe Redline, since they are mostly making it for racing, has more friction additives for the belt and torque converter than standard Subaru CVT fluid, but that is just a guess because I haven't seen any data to verify it. .

Thanks for the interesting post. I agree about your thoughts on "Lifetime fluid" ... in my opinion that is just a marketing gimmick by manufacturers that is designed to give a prospective buyer the impression of lower maintenance costs.

I also share your wariness on some dealership's "expertise" to perform a transmission fluid change; and my plan was when I reach 100,000 kms (and most of my driving is highway) that I would do a lot of homework to see if the dealer (or independent mechanic) I choose, knows what they are doing.

I'm not completely sold on a "flush" but I appreciate your input.

The one point that I do tend to disagree with you is on not using Subaru CVT fluid. Perhaps I am being a victim of more corporate marketing, but it does make sense to me that car makers have specific requirements for their transmission fluid ... but like you, I have no proof of that assertion.

In my opinion, there are several things wrong with this negative view of transmission flushes. On the article:

 

1. "it neglects the most important part of servicing the transmission: changing the filter".

 

2. "Fact #2: Car manufacturers recommend against transmission flushes". Subaru does not say not to do flushes.

3. Fact #2 & 3. Flushes do not pressurize the transmission. I

 

4. A drain and fill "only removes about 70% of the fluid" is way off. It is more like 35%. If it was 70% there would not be much benefit in a flush.

 

5. "flushing chemicals are solvents or detergents". Not true.o it again. Took about 12 times to totally flush my TR-580 in my 2016 Legacy. The TR-690 in a 3.6 holds a little more so probably a few times more.

 

Watch this man's videos to find out what real flushing is by someone who really knows.

Don't get me wrong ... if you read my initial post, I clearly stated that having a debate about flushes is good. I didn't post the article in question because I necessarily agreed with it ... but merely as an example of what I have heard quite a few people say about flushing a transmission.

I am very open to hearing what you, and any other forum members post on the subject.

One comment I will make on your video link, is that unless I am mistaken, the Toyota transmission discussed is not a CVT, so we are not truly comparing apples with apples

I could be wrong on the flush but I will have to dig up my paperwork. They were all performed at the dealer.

I would be very interested if it was a "flush" or a "drain and fill" because as I mentioned, "flushing" a transmission has it's fair share of detractors, as can be seen from the following link ...

http://mygarageairdrie.ca/services-pricing/maintenance-services/services-that-you-dont-need-transmission-flushes/

I have done 4 trans flushes and it's still kicking. .

Wow ... 4 trans FLUSHES .... that might create some debate around here (and in my humble opinion debate is a good thing).

On the numerous previous posts on this forum there is divided opinion as to whether or not a simple drain and fill is needed on our "lifetime" CVT's ... and now you are advocating flushes, which I have seen a lot of negative thoughts about on "normal" transmissions, much less on a CVT :)

or is this just general research like "I want the tool that can do the most?"

That tends to sum up my situation.

I have pretty much decided on the iCarsoft CR Pro. It seems to be as good (if not in some cases better) than others in my price range ... and importantly it is obtainable from the only local seller who has returned my emails requesting further information, and who also offers full local support.

if by fully compatible you mean SSM level of diagnostics? Not likely. I've used Autel and Launch diagnostics products and neither could look at a particular set of engine sensor data necessary for the diagnostics i needed to do. This was about eight or nine months ago on a FB20 in a '12 impreza, so i doubt they've added it since. I wish I could remember what the PIDs were, but it had something to do with the VVT system.

Thanks, I appreciate your input. I tend to think your are sadly correct.

Despite the Autel and Launch tools (which I have looked at) didn't fully meet your needs at the time ... did you think those (and other similar "medium level scanners") at least offered some level of benefit for the average DIYer??

I have a question about OBD2 scanners. I know that no American forum members will be able to answer my main question, but I thought that if I could get an answer on my associated question then it might help me.

I will ask the associated question first. It concerns as to whether or not American made 2016 year Gen 6 Legacy 3.6R's are fully compatible with the below listed Scanner tools.

I mean by "fully compatible" that the scanner can read all the systems that they both advertise. I ask that question because even though these scanners (and all other similar scanners that I have investigated) state that a particular car maker is "covered" ... that doesn't necessarily mean all the individual models, and all particular years of the vehicles in that car maker's inventory are covered.

Specifically I'd be interested in if American 2016 year Gen 6 3.6R Legacy's are 100% compatibility with these scanners.

This then leads to my main question regarding our Australian equivalent of your Legacy. Subaru couldn't use the name "Legacy" here because that name is copyrighted by a famous charity ... so Subaru brands the Australian models as a "Liberty."

I have tried emailing both the below scanner's manufacturers asking about the compatibility of our Liberty, but have not received an acknowledgment, or a reply.

So I rightly or wrongly figure that if the American 2016 year 3.6R's were compatible, then I would be "reasonably hopeful" that our "Liberty's" would also be similarly compatible. My theory is that the computer modules that control the OBD outputs on your Legacy would be the same as our Liberty.

I should mention that our Liberty's are fully imported from Japan, and not assembled here .... so I am assuming that the computer modules in your vehicles would be the same as with our fully imported Japanese made vehicles .... if anyone can prove, or disprove that assumption I would be extremely grateful to hear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4P7du0G7m

the only time your pump should fail is if you regularly have less than 1/4 tank of gas.

I don't think 1/4 tank will cause any problems .... running consistently on "empty" on the other hand, might be another story.

Clicked over 200,000 miles this morning:). Still no issues, OK, onto 250,000, I will report back.

Love it mate .... I can't wait to hear you eventually report back on the big 300,000 mile turnover. I hope to emulate your achievement ... but taking my relatively low annual mileage into account, I will probably "turnover" before my speedometer does ... but posts like yours, and from other satisfied "high milers," encourages me to continue to "aim high"

See post #18 , https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/reputable-subaru-shops-you-would-take-your-car-287758.htmlPM him for advice. Our 3.6R has 25,000 miles I will have my local transmission take a look at it when it's time. He's a lot less $$$ then a stealership.There is a ton of info on the outback forum or this one.

That's a great post by that JMP guy .... and thanks to you for bringing it up.

Living in Australia means it can't help me personally, but it is a great idea. I'd like to see it happen here as well.

Thanks for the very interesting and detailed post donglow. The CVT fluid change debate is a subject that always attracts my interest. I have searched online extensively and have yet to find a reputable professional transmission mechanic/technician who believes in "lifetime" tranny fluid.

Went out for a ride and got a nice warm coffee.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"Warm Coffee" ??? .... NOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!

It has to be extra hot or I'm taking it back

The OE batteries are clearly "adequate" for most owners, but they don't offer much more. Subaru's original onboard "battery management system" programming, starting in MY 2015, proved insufficient in short-trip service; that deficiency was addressed in 2017 with an ECM firmware update per TSB 11-176-17. For owners concerned about battery performance and longevity, I highly recommend purchasing an inexpensive "smart" battery charger (a.k.a. battery maintainer, battery tender, etc.). Connecting a smart charger overnight every few months will really help to maintain the battery in top condition.

ammcinnis, I apologise for being very "late to the party" ... but obviously I have been living under a rock (or perhaps this class action didn't make the news here in Australia) but I have only just stumbled onto the following article, and I'm wondering if it has anything to do with this "battery goes dead" thread? I have tried looking for updated reports, but July 2021 are the latest reports I can find. Has there been any resolution?

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/new-lawsuit-filed-against-subaru-more-defective-batteries-surface

Do your tires have a directional tread pattern? If so, you would need to be rotating 6 tires.

 

Unless you live in an area where tire punctures are common, all this may be overkill. In 53 years of car ownership I’ve only had one tire fail to the point that it’s irreparable and that was because it was worn almost to the point of replacement. I will continue to rotate my tires but I’ll take the chance on having to replace all 4 prematurely because of a road incident.

They are non directional. I fully understand what you are saying. In 50 years of driving I have had 2 punctures that I recall. (somewhere in those early 50 years I probably had others seeing as how during those early years "good" tyres on the beaters were I luxury very few kids could afford Those two punctures that I mentioned have happened in the last 6 months. I can change a tyre and have "plugged" both of the punctures successfully ( and I guess now there will be a discussion on the safety of plugs ) .... but as MoleMan referenced in his post ... traveling very long distances brings with it possible challenges. I have just returned from a 3000 km trip (which I do annually) and whilst changing/repairing a tyre is not a challenge for me ... on some of my trips, being "in between civilisation" might create a challenge that I could do without. As I am ready for a tyre change, I think for me, it's a no brainer to buy 5 tyres and rotate them accordingly.

Be sure to check the thread wear and remaining depth, not just miles. Depending on the thread wear rating of tire you get and your driving style, you could burn through rubber faster than you think.

Good points ... I am a very "conservative" driver, but I take on board what you are saying.

if you have a set of 5 wheels/tires for your car, there is a 5 wheel rotation pattern. follow it. each tire will get it's own 'off' time and will wear evenly with the rest as they make their 4 corner journey. Just to be safe, do it every 3000 miles. recommended is 6000 but you seem extra concerned, which is fair, tires are quite the investment. thousands of miles wear your tires, not hundreds. well, unless your alignment is buggered you can chew through a set of tires real fast.

Thanks for the input. Rotating every 3000 sounds like a plan that will suit me, so I will be doing that. Below is a video clip on a suggested 5 tire rotation plan, and this is the one I will be doing.

I have a question regarding driving on uneven wear tires.

From the start, let me be 100% clear, I am not disputing the overall need for the same exact tires and the same exact wear levels on our Subaru AWD vehicles ... all I am trying to do is to ask if there is any tolerance involved in that situation.

For example, if I have 4 identical brand new tires fitted, and have an identical new spare tire in the trunk, and If I have only traveled 100 miles on the new tires and I get a flat, I would assume that no forum members would suggest that I couldn't permanently replace the flat with the identical spare? If my assumption is correct that such a tire swap would be perfectly OK, then my next question is ... what about if I had 200 or 500 miles on the original 4 new tires before swapping over to a new spare? Again, without disputing that the basic premise of running the same tires with the same wear is acceptable to all, I'm just a little doubtful that running a new spare with minimally worn 4 tires would cause immediate catastrophic damage. All I am suggesting is that there "might be" a tipping point between what is acceptable in some circumstances, and what is absolutely not acceptable.

My questions are based on my upcoming purchase of a set of Michelin tires. I am considering buying 5 tires and rotating them regularly, so as to attempt to keep the overall wear as even as possible. My reason for doing this is to remove the need to buy 4 new tires if one of the tires was ever unrepairable, which is currently what Subaru owners are advised to do.

I fully realise that my plan to rotate 5 tires would require reasonably frequent rotations in order to achieve any sort of even wear. I can live with that, but I would just like to canvass the opinions of forum members as to what would be considered to be acceptable mileage rotations (if any).

 

Based on years of experience in our 2015 Legacy and 2016 Outback, both with EyeSight, I disagree:

 

• ... that this seems like an EyeSight "hiccup"
  
• ... that such "hiccups" are common with EyeSight
  
• ... that it's a good idea to disable EyeSight
  

If you are already a good driver, you'll seldom be aware that EyeSight's even there. EyeSight is like having a second pair of eyes that never get tired, careless, or distracted.

I agree with your comments

As for the fluid change, I cannot fathom why Subaru doesn't recommend some kind of periodic fluid replacement for their CVTs. I understand the longer oil change intervals are largely due to euro-spec regulations, but I don't think that applies in this case.

Other members might disagree, but I personally would agree with your comment about periodic fluid replacement.

But seeing as how you did bring up the Prius reference, I think it's only fair to point out that Toyota do not recommend a fluid change in Prius CVT's either .... (just saying)

This is the kind of thing that has me questioning whether I will every buy another Subaru with a CVT.

My two comments in regards to your post are ..

(1) I don't think CVT's are going to disappear any time soon, and I don't just mean with Subaru. The fuel saving capabilities of CVT's (however small) means that many manufacturers will keep using them.

(2) I'm not sure that questions about "when and if" to replace transmission fluid should be influencing you as to whether to buy a vehicle with a CVT or not ... because any qualified mechanic will tell you that all types of transmissions should have a fluid change at some stage if you wanted to keep your transmission running trouble free for a decent period of time. Some people do not like CVT's because of "performance" reasons, and I understand that (although CVT's are continually improving in that regard) ... but not buying a CVT vehicle purely because of some perceived fluid change "confusion" doesn't make a lot of sense to me.