MoarBoost

Reviving an old thread, but just wanted to say (if anybody cares anymore): all of my fixes above worked. The above rebuild happened around 78,000 miles and I now have 120,000 miles on the car with the VF52 that replaced the VF40. I've since moved halfway across the country with a uhaul trailer in tow and just recently hauled 800lbs of lumber in the back of the wagon 800 miles. I didn't need a new short block after all. That is all. carry on.

Thanks for the feedback. So, being a noob, some of the regularly-thrown-around terminology is kind of lost on me. At first I thought "you need a new shortblock" meant that you either needed to get a new motor or rebuild it. Does YNANSB mean exactly that: the block? Also something that's a little frustrating is the lack of specificity. I've read a lot of posts that talk about the the turbo being "toast" or "spent" or it "went" or the motor is "gone." When INANSB, what does that really mean? Are the sleeves gouged by unlubricated pistons? Are the oil passages damaged beyond repair, or just horribly clogged? Are bearing cradles damaged beyond repair because of spun bearings? Please trust that I've been poring through engine rebuild threads, I just thought I'd ask that specific question here. Thanks and sorry for the extreme noobitude

Welp... the available, cheap and geographically close engine I had my eye on just got bought out from under my nose. Are there any telltale signs I can look for to decide whether or not to do a complete engine rebuild? Some people have mentioned it's often just the heads that need cleaning. I'll be pulling the oil pan first to clean it up as best as possible and inspect for fouling. Anything else I should be looking for specifically? Who's rebuilt these motors after the turbo grenaded? BTW, KillerB oil sump came in the mail and I'm picking up a used Grimmspeed uncatted uppipe soon.

those closed deck blocks are totally baller. I'm going to see if I can't pick up a motor locally though. Its quality may be questionable, but I'll spend some time going over it to try to make it at least temporarily reliable. After I get the car back up and running, I want to tear down the original motor and see what its condition is and possibly rebuild it and get it back in the car. Thanks for the helpful links, guys.

I've got a few leads on some EJ255's. I'm a little out of touch for what's expected, what is a decent price for a motor?

I mean, why do you think I'm here now? haha Idk... people will learn somehow. Either by being proactive and taking preventive measures, or by being ignorant and pushing the envelope and learning how to clean up the mess. Or they don't learn. I just know that if I was this ignorant, then there are a thousand others like me, so I should admit my mistakes, try to document everything I've learned, describe my thought processes and ask for help. For the future, I will be: -checking oil levels frequently -changing oil every 3k miles -sending out oil analyses regularly -getting AAA -reading up more on this and other forums -...

This is true. I've generally not been a very lucky person

Yeah, that definitely correlates with what everybody else is recommending. Everyone, thanks a lot for the advice. I've been partially expecting this outcome and as soon as I parked the thing last, I was on the hunt for a replacement motor. Back to the analysis though... My stupidity plays a big role in this as well. For reasons outside of the scope of this thread, I neglected this car and ran it over 12k miles on the same oil, without so much as even checking the level. *beat-head-against-wall-emoji* Please don't berate me too much. I know how idiotic that is (obviously... I'm already paying for it) but I'm trying to learn from my mistakes, learn something about this car, and get it back on the road... because I absolutely love my LGT (even when it's on jackstands). Down to what I think happened... There were three distinct phases of failure, in my mind, marked by the following symptoms: 1. CEL comes on with flashing cruise control 2. hear "vhoop" noise and little to no throttle response at-speed 3. tin-can-of-bolts sound coming from under the hood after starting from a stop 1. CEL codes were: P0102 - MAF circuit low input this one makes sense. Compressor isn't pulling the amount of air expected. P0011 - Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced (Bank 1) OK. So if boost is low, that means air/fuel ratio is low, meaning the engine is expecting more oxygen and is running abnormally rich.... Nope, I think there's an easier answer to this: As best I can see from ClimberD@HexMods informative post, the AVCS (variable valve timing) shares the same oil feed circuit as the turbo. The AVCS is actuated with oil pressure. If the turbo is getting starved of oil, chances are the AVCS is too, which could result in a forced timing change. P0113 - Intake Air Temp Circuit High Input not sure about this one. This means that either the intake air temp sensor is going, or it is somehow linked to the MAF circuit input (P0102). It sounds like these two codes often show up together. P0021 - Intake Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced (Bank 2) I believe this just means that Bank 2 is receiving the same faulty timing advancement from the AVCS, although I've been trying to find more information about how the AVCS actuates both banks. I've come up a little short here. But perhaps that's because I haven't torn apart an EJ before, I don't know. My thinking is that the combination of low engine oil quantity and probably partially clogged banjo bolt filters started starving the turbo of oil causing the thrust bearing to start to wear. The rotating assembly would still rotate and produce boost, but it was a lot higher friction since there wasn't any layer of oil between the thrust bearing and thrust washer. (keep in mind, the CELs were pulled after the car was in the garage, partially disassembled) 2. the "vhoop" noise I believe, was the wastegate actuator rapidly losing pressure, because the compressor was rapidly being ground to a halt because of the thrust bearings wearing down. If the turbo is being starved of oil, the bearings that take the thrust in the compressor direction are probably going to fail first, since that is the direction of the thrust load under normal operation. Minutes after I started hearing the "vhoop", I lost boost. I think the ramps on the thrust bearing ground all the way down to almost completely keep the rotating assembly from rotating. 3. I'd been traveling at highway speeds, more or less keeping a consistent stream of exhaust trying to move the rotating assembly. When I came to a stop though, I'm tempted to say that's when the turbine wheel relieved itself from the shaft. I believe the extreme exhaust gas mass flows provided the torque to twist the turbine wheel right off the shaft. (I'm not 100% sure about this hypothesis though. I only drove about two more miles after I came to that first stop. According to my hypothesis though, that's about the only timespan where the turbine wheel would have to destroy itself and the turbine housing. Could so much damage be done to the housing and shaft in just 2 miles?) New plan: take JmP's and everybody else's advice and just swap in a different, normally functioning motor, pull the old one and rebuild it. I found and I am understanding quickly that this motor needs some TLC. Thank you, thank you to all for your experience and expert advice. I know turbos. In fact, really well. But concerning practical motor rebuilding and specifically the inner workings of an EJ, I am very much a noob. I will be relying on the mountain of knowledge from this and other forums as well as my engineering schooling and experience. I appreciate all assistance and recommendations here.

Please, by all means comment! I'm looking for any and all feedback! Thanks for the introduction!

looks pretty darn similar. The wear marks are even in the same location on both housings.

Now for the fun stuff. With the backplate off, you can see (one of the) thrust bearings screwed in place by three little PITAs. I think I remember those also being torx bits... but it doesn't matter. Those guys aren't coming out with conventional methods. http://i.imgur.com/PQH97gg.jpg A regular old drill bit made quick work of these. The picture below shows what's under the compressor-side thrust bearing, which is the thrust washer in the middle, and at the 4:00 position in the pic is the oil feed hole to the thrust bearing not pictured. http://i.imgur.com/JQrQgFg.jpg This is the compressor-side thrust bearing. The 1:00 position is the part that is pointing upwards. the semicircle groove and the little pockets are oil pockets that also have tiny holes that feed oil straight to the bearing surfaces...which have been completely eroded away. You can still see the axial oil feed holes though. The shiny part on the inside is where there are supposed to be little ramps which are the actual bearing surfaces. We'll see those on the turbine-side thrust bearing. http://i.imgur.com/iOASwYf.jpg Getting the rest of the bearing components out was a little difficult. I had to find a punch and drive them out from the turbine side little by little. And here they are: http://i.imgur.com/yWuLcvI.jpg In the above picture, from left to right are the thrust washer, turbine-side thrust bearing, compressor-side journal bearing, spacer and turbine-side journal bearing. On the bottom are the turbine-side piston ring and a spring-ring. Below, the thrust washer (silver) is the component that spins with the rotating assembly. This component is clamped between the flinger and the step on the shaft and this part transfers all of the thrust load. The brass looking part is the other thrust bearing. (see how those bearing ramps are still visible?) http://i.imgur.com/dN30JV0.jpg The journal bearings (below) actually seemed like they were in great shape. They were difficult to get out because that spacer is also pressed in. The hole in the middle is for the oil drain which has to be oriented downward. http://i.imgur.com/vn3asgs.jpg The piston ring, I actually found in the oil drain cavity of the bearing housing (not good.) The spring ring is probably interacting with a small groove in the bearing housing which keeps the journal bearings from moving axially. http://i.imgur.com/rcVrGjl.jpg Taking a look at the shaft, the bearing surfaces actually look quite good, too. Measuring both bearing surfaces and the shaft in the middle produced decent numbers. Both bearing surfaces measured 0.3155" (8.0137mm). The center section of the shaft, which should still be new part spec is 0.3170" (8.0518mm) http://i.imgur.com/TyLAEcu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/4JoDg7g.jpg The part of the shaft inside the comp wheel measured 0.21" (5.334mm). Reading through the sticky on turbo failure, it's stated that the shaft is 4mm, which I just don't see anywhere. But anyway... That's the turbo. More on why it actually failed, plus why it was making the noises it did.

http://i.imgur.com/XLmpnYF.jpg The new technology from IHI is the quick connect turbine wheel. Great job, guys. Removing the V-band, it still looks like it's in good shape. There was some oil residue buildup on the inner bottom side though (can't really see in this photo) http://i.imgur.com/AoXu2K7.jpg The turbine housing was definitely frozen on to the bearing housing. A few hits with a hammer and it was persuaded to come off. Most obvious is how much the turbine wheel has gouged out the turbine housing contour. That housing is absolutely f*cked and is completely irreparable. In this photo you can also see the orientation roll pin that mates with the bearing housing, and if you look closely, you can see a chunk of turbine wheel lodged near the volute tongue (where the smallest part of the volute meets the largest). http://i.imgur.com/WTpfzOR.jpg Back to the turbine wheel http://i.imgur.com/ullI6y5.jpg There seems to be a lot of material that was removed from what looks to either be the shaft or the turbine wheel, where they are welded together. It looks like the larger diameter that used to have a piston ring groove is part of the turbine wheel since it looks like there is still part of the shaft still inside the turbine wheel shaft pilot. No wonder why the heatshield is so damaged. It is interesting that they have such a complex contour to the stamping, though. http://i.imgur.com/HG2RcLa.jpg On the bearing housing, you can see where the turbine wheel was hitting the edge and damaging it. http://i.imgur.com/12PuXnd.jpg So, I picked up a used VF52 a few days ago and it's interesting what design changes they made between the different versions. It's probably obvious, but below, VF40 on the left, VF52 on the right. http://i.imgur.com/lW52y27.jpg Major design updates seem to be a larger volute (larger A/r) larger turbine wheel (I still need to measure the housings) and improved wastegate position. On the VF40, as the WG opens, you can almost visualize how the exhaust will continue with its downward vector and as the WG opens, hit the part where the valve arm is welded to the shaft. The VF52 is definitely a better design since the WG flow is unimpeded by the WG components themselves. This is definitely the reason for the super long WG bushing (silver looking cylinder in-line with the axis of rotation of the WG). next up: bearings

FWIW, here's the turbo teardown. http://i.imgur.com/JPYiq4y.jpg Starting on the compressor side, even before taking off the comp cover it's apparent that the comp wheel blades are not as they should be. There's definitely been some shaft motion: http://i.imgur.com/v7k8lQ9.jpg Taking the comp cover off, it actually looks like it's in pretty good condition. It's not as marred up as I would've expected http://i.imgur.com/ODByNSz.jpg The compressor wheel on the other hand is pretty messed up. The blades are bent, but no big chunks seem to have broken off (that doesn't mean there aren't aluminum filings though) http://i.imgur.com/W90cai5.jpg Taking the compressor nut off was definitely a b!tch, but that's to be expected. The torque specs have to be high in order to get proper shaft stretch to clamp the comp wheel and keep it from rotating with respect to the balance cuts on the shaft and turbine wheel assy. http://i.imgur.com/fJ0EZOG.jpg Finally getting the comp wheel off, the backface of the comp wheel shows where it was rubbing on the outer diameter near the exducer. The comp wheel was obviously hitting the comp cover inlet and the backplate wheel pocket. http://i.imgur.com/29GcrxO.jpg Four torx bolts later and the backplate is off. The little bit to the left is the flinger, which acts as a tightly toleranced spacer to keep the comp wheel in the right position, axially, and as a piston ring "housing" which is what makes a labyrinth seal to keep oil from seeping from the bearing housing to the compressor stage. There's one on the turbine side as well which I'll show later. A lot of modern turbochargers will have two piston rings on both the compressor and turbine side, instead of just one. http://i.imgur.com/pljpXNq.jpg Next up, the turbine side. Then the bearings.

Well nuts. that's not the news I was hoping for... That sticky was definitely the first thing I read through but thanks for the advice. Definitely worth going back through again.

edited above post. thanks for the input. Never flushed the oil system before, I'll have to figure out how to do that

Glad to hear I'm not the only one and thanks a lot for the words of wisdom/experience. So what else do I need to do to fix this issue before I just replace the turbo? Do I need to detach the uppipe and shake it out? Do I need to remove oil filters in the oil lines on the turbo and motor side? What else should I do to ensure a safe and healthy motor (assuming the oil filter caught all of the particles)? This is my plan at the moment: 1) get Blackstone Labs to tell me that my motor isn't ready to spin a bearing 1.5) oil system flush 2) replace turbo with VF52 3) install wideband o2 sensor into stock downpipe 4) install boost gauge 5) replace intake manifold, turbo gaskets with stock replacements 6) if necessary for a safe, reliable fix, have tuned 7) if budget allows, upgrade fuel pump/injectors, intercooler

http://i.imgur.com/KGWCOlN.jpg

Lets see if google photos is a good for image hosting... New turbo: http://i.imgur.com/cS29lPQ.jpg i'm surprised. The turbo looks nearly brand new. Or maybe anything would next to that mangled turbine wheel. http://i.imgur.com/Ba5Rlnj.jpg Oil seems good. No milkshake. Just black. I took a sample and am sending it off to Blackstone Labs. http://i.imgur.com/M9p7DJI.jpg

Yeah sorry guys, I'll get the images fixed. BTW, bought a used VF52. Picked it up, looks pristine.

here's another random turbo teardown teaser: http://i.imgur.com/yWuLcvI.jpg

Yeah, this east coast living is new to me. Been here almost 4 years, but I grew up in Minnesota and Iowa. I gotta say, the driving up here in the mountains of WNC is SOOOOO much better than the boring state-long straights that criss cross the midwest. Winter driving is a little less exciting though. Back where I grew up, it would've taken no less than two hours to cross the state border in any direction, now I can hit three states in that time! Thanks for the offer, seanyb505. I will no doubt be seeking out a lot of advice here.

I'll be posting the full turbo tear-down soon, but probably not tonight since I'll be driving down to GA to pick up a lightly used VF52

By all means interrupt! The ending of the story hasn't been written yet I haven't disconnected the battery yet so the code should still be saved. I'm going to still try to pull it. I'll post it when I know.

Ha! I actually didn't get a tow. I should've, but I didn't. I limped it up 30 miles up a mountain

http://i.imgur.com/cbdstc9.jpg Start disassembling. I didn't quite know what I was doing, so I just started taking things off. I never had much reason to work on the LGT because it's always been so reliable and perfect. This is the first smudge, I guess. Obviously, if the turbo blows, which is what i suspected, my first concern is if I have parts of the compressor wheel going through the intake system. My second concern is getting metal shavings in the oil. I can easily inspect for comp wheel bits, but I'll have to drain and send off a sample of my oil for inspection later on. First off, TMIC off and inspect for loose aluminum bits. outlet seems clear of bits. http://i.imgur.com/PIZ19Kx.jpg inlet seems clear of bits. that's good. (sh!t photo, but I could see) http://i.imgur.com/LWOkdDW.jpg shot down the compressor outlet. Nothing blatantly obvious, but then again, any loose bits will fall to the bottom of the volute. There is quite a bit of oil on the flange though... curious. http://i.imgur.com/kL2qKUc.jpg A shot of the VF40 in its home with the heatshield: http://i.imgur.com/tKgf5AT.jpg and without the heatshield: http://i.imgur.com/hya0WX9.jpg I thought I had to take off the intake manifold to get to the turbo, but it turns out, you don't need to. I still took off all those bolts. This is me trying to stay organized. http://i.imgur.com/7LTjMbo.jpg Took off the hose pipe from the TMIC to the throttle body and found a weird pool of sludgy milkshake in there: http://i.imgur.com/m47GZsq.jpg poured it out to get a better look: http://i.imgur.com/LVZuzY0.jpg this had me freaking out a little bit. "sh!t do I have a bunch of coolant in my oil?!" I drained the oil, and was pleasantly surprised to find that it was all completely black. No milkshake, no globules of water, just black. As stated before, I'll send off a sample of that to blackstone to be analyzed. I finally figured out that all I needed to do was remove the downpipe and I could get to the turbo. I removed the downpipe carefully, brought it over to a scrap of paper and shook out whatever got caught by the catalyst: http://i.imgur.com/qEu5zdj.jpg Those metal shards sure do look like turbine wheel bits. More to come later.