Nameless Performance

Let me clear this up after talking with English about this. They found out that the factory actuator does not have enough physical throw in the rod to fully open the flapper valve.

It has nothing to do with the downpipe or any downpipe for that matter. They are only seeing it open about 30%

English Racing

"The actuator doesnt have enough throw to allow the wastegate flapper to open 100% it opens maybe 30%"

"the DP has no affect one way or the other

if anything I think this is using a modified form of the Ford boost control strategy to open the blow off valve or engineer controlled boost leaks to limit the problem

no matter what its obvious that they engineered one mistake to fix another"

They are about to get going on Ellesedil car now.

Alright!

Well here is what we have found out.

Ryans Original setup with the Old DP and our full catback on a stock BPV had no overboost issues. Target boost was around 17-18 which is basically all the stock BPV will want to hold.

Since then Ryan added a new BPV which is ours.

We then re testing the Old DP and our full catback with the new BPV. It over shot the target boost we originally had on the tune that was done on the car with the stock BPV. Aaron the tuner from English racing said that was due to the stock valve leaking and our new valve doesn't leak so it will hold more boost. It hit 20.74 PSI

We didn't change a thing in the tune just rolled it right off the dyno and into the shop to swap the old DP to the new DP. Install was a breeze and took them about an hour and a half. There were no install issues and no flapper issue.

Got the car back on the dyno and did a pull. So the new DP and our full catback with our BPV. Did almost exactly the same as it did with the old DP.

The new DP had a slightly better spool up time and made more power and TQ across the entire board. Since the car seemed to really want to be in the 20's for boost we changed target boost to 20PSI instead of the 17-18 it orginally had and the car made 299.81AWHP and 352.72TQ aka rocket ship. Aaron did some more massaging in the tune and got the car up to 300.69AWHP and 365.19FTlbs TQ

After talking with Aaron about everything he said that having an after market BPV on the car you wont be able to get lower boost numbers. Having a valve that will hold the boost will net you 20+PSI. If you wanted say lower boost like 16-19PSI you would need to keep your stock valve.

We also talked about how having an after market valve then porting the housing some since the stock port for the waste gate cant flow enough to keep up you could essential keep the aftermarket valve and still hit a lower boost target with porting.

In conclusion both the old DP and the new DP behave almost exactly the same except the new DP overall has better performance netting you in more power and a quicker spool time.

Attached is the dyno/boost graph. In RED is the Old DP with our valve. In Blue is the New DP and our valve.

http://i64.tinypic.com/15d8cyc.jpg

As Ryan already announced we will be at English Thursday doing some back to back tests with the down pipe. We have had some stupid crazy weather here that has put this on the back burner(tons of snow which is normal) and also English now finally can save the logs so we can actually show you data when we do the test.

Basic game plan. Ryan will drop his car off and it goes straight on the dyno. Do a few pulls then log. Pull the car off get it on a lift and swap the down pipe to the new one then right back onto the dyno for more pulls. Record those logs then compare the two and graph them together then show and tell.

So stay tuned boys!

This works for me. I'm looking at a January or February time-frame to have the budget for this. I have one question: Do you guys want to do the install? I'm interested in eliminating as many variables as possible, and having a different garage do the install introduces some. I have no power mods except for an AccessPort and my entire intake system is also currently stock, including all of my intercolor piping (I do have AVO pieces in my garage waiting to install).

 

The Nameless parts I own are the full TBE with 5" double walled axlebacks and the 2015 WRX BPV with the 1" adapter hose. Essentially, I should have pretty much the exact same setup as Ryan, except I have an AccessPort for tuning and logging instead of open source and I have the revised downpipe design. Hell, our cars are even the same color. Mine is just two years younger.

Shoot me an email Steven.R@namelessperformance.com Lets discuss some dates and get this moving!

Current Successful Installs - no creep, no overboost

 

Dreizehn - Nameless CBE, stock EBCS, stock non-ported turbo, 5280'

ApexoftheVortex - Invidia N1 Catback, Grimmspeed EBCS, stock non-ported turbo, sea level

 

Those with install issues...overboost

 

eckseleven - stock midpipe with AVO axlebacks, stock EBCS, stock non-ported turbo, sea level..... Notes: WDC set to 0

sm00vem00ve - Nameless CBE, Grimmspeed EBCS, ported hybrid 20G, altitude?..... Notes: upgraded WG spring

 

I will grow this list as info is filled in.

That's not at all what I said

 

 

So here is the whole story.

The first tune was done in November of last year shortly after the pipes were shipped out which cost me 500$ which is fine. It was boosting to about 24 psi and throwing the MAP sensor CEL so of course I went back to Moore and let them know. They said I'd need a 3-port EBCS and a retune which cost about 350$ not as fine but what choice did I have at this point? After that still exactly the same and boosting around 24psi throwing CEL. So after two failed tunes at Moore I wasn't exactly too keen on going back and paying them more money for another retune or whatever, especially after paying you all 750$ for the downpipe and the rest I paid Moore for the first tunes. So now broke and out of options I figured since it was Winter I would just go easy on the car and deal with it in the spring. When Spring rolled around I contacted TA. After Mike advised me to just swap the downpipe I got my hands on a catless TurboXS downpipe which I've been running for a few months now and over boost has not been an issue at all. All that being said are you guys really surprised that people are nervous to try installing this on their cars? And now in order to get the pipe to work we have to modify our turbos? Nobody has over 1000$ in their pocket to do your R&D for you.

I was basing my findings off of what I read on page 12 I believe. You also stated on there you were actually under boosting sometimes and that when it got colder in out side air temps it would hit 22psi sometimes. When the air gets colder any car with have in increase in boost. Its Science like I already explained.

Guys I want to make this simple. I feel like im beating a dead horse here.

Help me HELP you!

I've spent all day gathering logs and speaking with tuners for you to get this sorted. All day reading this forum and other forums about similar issues on these cars. Im doing my home work. Im not here to argue with you. Just doing my research to find the facts not stories so again if you have not installed this on your car in fear of it overboosted please do not chime in right now. We just want to hear from people who have the first hand experience please.

PS. Sorry if im posting to much in a single day not sure if their are rules on that in this forum but im devoting almost all my time to this so it can be resolved quickly. We are all ready to get this over with as much as you.

This argument just goes in circles...here is the issue I see, people who bought the GB DP have already condemned Nameless because the DP worked on one car but a revised didn't work on theirs.

 

Nameless is questioning the tuning and supporting mods because the DP did work on Fischbachs car and their experience tells them the revised should work also.

 

Meanwhile neither side has made an apple to apples comparison. And another source has also made the same claim about the differences in turbo housing castings. Somehow someway a true comparison needs to be made between the two parts. And both sides of this need to be prepared to be wrong and adjust their perception and attitude pretty quick to find a resolution.

 

What if Fischbachs car runs exactly the same with both DPs?

 

Neither side should be making claims without complete data to work with.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Exactly why I'm here trying to gather as much data as possible. So we can come to a resolution on this! No where did we say there couldn't be an issue here but from our perspective there have been more successful installs than failures.

No, I haven't. I don't have the time nor the money to take a chance to go out and spend on a dyno/tune to find out I am overboosting. I already lost money doing that once and am not planning on paying again to test someones product. Now, if we are talking reimbursing all cash that is used (dyno/tune/install) if overboost occurs, then I may. Either way I am just waiting to see how this gets resolved if it does.

This is exactly my point you are basing you thoughts on someone else who had an issue. When there have been others on this forum who have not had the issue. You are not doing any testing for us as there are multiple cars out there with this same DP right now running around enjoying it.

That's why.

 

The highlighted section is what was supposed to differentiate this DP from any other. But, according to your statement, this DP is prone to exactly the issues it was supposed to be made to avoid. Plus, now there's a set of supporting mods that are needed?

 

I had an Invida DP which was creeping. I bought this specifically because of the highlighted.

Did you install ours and have an over boost issue like you had with the Indvida?

If so can you please provide me with logs.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5454591&postcount=860

 

Your description said no boost creep.

The boost creep others had were with catless units. Your produt isn't catless.

Porting the turbo exhaust housing is in no way insinuated as necessary. A tune is expected.

Again there have been multiple people who have installed this with a correct tune and not have had an over boost issue. Simple facts stated by you guys in this forum.

Because Fischbach doesn't have a ported wastegate, so we shouldn't necessarily need to do it if your original DP is equal to the redesigned DP.

 

I actually own one of your original downpipes with the S bend (I bought Swannee's when he sold his car) and one of the GB downpipes, two of them. Just haven't had the money to investigate myself or the money to invest with my tuner, and was waiting on other Stage2 parts like the new Grimmspeed 2015+WRX TMIC.

OK I understand that argument by visually looking at the two parts side by side. One looking slightly different still doesn't prove one is superior over the other and still doesn't explain the 5 other people with the group by part that didn't port it and didn't have over boost. This is why I continue to stress its a tuning related issue.

Steven, yes we are familiar with several owners over the years that had overboost issues with Invidia catless. Their fixes were either to go back to the Invidia catted, port the wastegate, this usually cured the boost spikes. In extreme situations they had bigger plans for the car, they had custom exhaust manifolds designed and built with external wastegates.

OK then why is no one doing those same fixes like porting the wastegate to combat the already known issue with these cars overboosting?

I could, but I don't see how that conversation would go. My problem is that I only have what's posted in this thread, which is all second-hand (from their perspective of me engaging them), and I lack a lot of details that Nameless would undoubtedly want in order to determine what the problem is. We think the issue is the join of the dump pipe to the main exhaust pipe. But I have no evidence of this other than "only a little more than a handful of people installed the downpipe, some said they overboost, and others said they didn't, and you changed the design." I'm not going to win anything with that argument because they're going to ask a bunch of questions about the install and the tune that I'm unable to answer.

 

The way I see it, I have two options: start to get on their case about testing the revised downpipe on Ryan's car... or just have them install my downpipe on my car. If we can get them involved directly in an install (and I'm willing to wave money in their face once I have it set aside to encourage that), then we cut out a lot of the questions they would otherwise ask. And with a local protuner involved, it should make communication easier to identify and hopefully solve any issues that arise.

 

This is why I'm not really upset about the situation, yet. I'm disappointed, sure. And I am a little frustrated that there's some feet dragging on testing the revised downpipe on Ryan's car. But I'm not ready to revolt because I don't yet have enough details to be able to really press my case. If they rebuff my attempts to engage them AND rebuff Ryan's attempts to get the revised downpipe tested, then my tolerance for this will start disappearing pretty quickly.

Just spoke with one of the owners about you since you are local. We want you to go and do the normal install then take it straight to English racing for the tune by Aaron. If there are any issues after the tune about the issues you guys are talking about here on the forums we will then take over your car and do what is necessary to figure it out. Let me know your thoughts.

Has anyone had a chance to read this forum post?

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/overboosting-issue-catless-downpipe-236467.html

Some already published information about these cars and how they overboost with how the factory turbine housing is designed.

I just read all of this again. So far from reading every comment ive made a list.

This is my list of people who ran our DP with out issue:

Fischbache

Swannee

Dreizehn

Sarang

FlLegacy

laopadak

People with issues

Eckselven. Over bossted on his TBE with fitment issue. Got the fitment issues resolved then took the CBE off reverted to stock and have no overboost issue until you installed a Cobb intake. Was your car re tuned for that intake or did you just slap it on? Do you have logs you can send?

Sm00veM00ve had a cracked housing that was ported, something weird going on with his 20g. Went back to stock and had overboost issue then after being fully tuned and having your tuner tinker with it he got it pretty solid but you still noticed overboost during colder temps? Do you have logs you can send me and also who is your "tuner"?

Haruichi808 Had overboost issues, You also stated you had amateur hour on the dyno and had hose's flying off your car and you may have the EBC hooked up incorrectly. Im sorry but its hard for me to pin point an issue to any part on your car if it doesn't sound like its put together correctly or well. Would advise a professional to do a solid once over on your car. Then I see you installed an Indvida DP and still overboost but its not as much as you saw on ours but its "acceptable"

ApexoftheVortex Had no issues with boost creep. Then sounds like with any fast car you got used to the power and wanted more as do we all! Got a different tune from a totally different tuner then had boost creep issues. Now the finger is pointed at the DP when before on a different tune it was a non issue?

Is there more I didn't see or am missing? Just trying to get all our ducks in a row here.

Also having colder temps will affect any turbo charged car, or turbo/ supercharged anything for that matter. When the temps drop the air condenses thus providing more boost. The hotter the air is the more it will expand and not have as much boost. Same theory a Steam Turbine power plant does. During the Winter months it runs at half capacity but will still produce the same amount the plant does during the summer at full capacity.

Mike from TA who has tuned from what we see two of these dropped some solid info as well

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Hey guys, I have tuned a few of these recently and have seen varying results. I was asked by some customers to comment and thought this may be helpful to others. I haven't had much up and close time with a VF54 personally, but its seems the wastegate sizing is a bit too small for the system.I would speculate that variation in the turbine castings is causing some to flow better than others and ultimately work okay while others consistently creep. I have seen the same issue in 15-16 STi's, when a high flowing downpipe is installed severe boost spikes occur (23-24psi) regardless of boost control or flapper position. In extreme cases I have implemented throttle limiting to decrease airflow and boost into the engine. This is the only easy fix aside from reverting to a stock downpipe.

Problem: Insufficient Wastegate flow (mechanical boost creep)

Cause: High flowing downpipe

Potential Fixes:

-Wastegate and/or turbine porting (requires turbo removal)

-External Wastegate (Not practical on 5th gen)

-Electronic limiting of throttle

-Restrictive/stock downpipe

Other suggestions:

-FMIC (may reduce boost and reduce charge temps for a happier engine)

~Mike"

Again talking about how these turbos need porting and the waste gate size is small and when you take that and an extremely free flowing downpipe boost spikes occur.

Talking about different elevation and different climates is all in the tune. This is not new knowledge. Your tuner that is from that area will tune the car to the climate and what the car needs to live.

When we go to races that are all over the US we have to constantly change the cars tune depending on where we are at. You can't expect to be tuned say where we are from in a colder wet climate then when we go to a race in Florida were its super hot and humid the car will perform the exact same. It doesn't and adjustments need to be made.

So far from the very few logs I've seen and had to go out of my way to find or get they are all drastically different from one and another.

We ask who tuned your car for a reason. Being in this industry and talking to hundreds of customers on the daily I hear tons of horror story's about this sick deal this guy got on an e tune and then his cars blows up. Come to find out its Joe Shmo tuning cars out of his mom's basement. There is a small number of tuners I know and trust nation wide. Then there are hundreds more I would never trust since they simply dont have the knowledge or experience. Maybe they can do basic tunes on a wrx/sti fine but not on these Legacy's. They are complicated cars to tune as you have found out.

We all have been patiently waiting for test results and have been in contact with you guys , other than the 3 people that have good results with the gb downpipe,me n other have very similar issues,

I sent you guys an email regarding how my tune went , and u replied and asked if I had a ebcs,and if I had oriented the dp as much as I could to the front of the car, n I did both, but orienting the dp towards the front should have been clear from the start seein most people will bolt it up.

 

So I had a Grimmspeed 3port ebcs

RacerX tmic and nameless axle backs,stock midpipe, and np dp

With a Cobb tuner

And had jarred from pdx tuning tuning my car I believe he is a reputable tuner and has been tuning subarus for over a decade and is a neighbor of yours,

Pls email him for the logs he has them on his laptop under devin 2012lgt

He has tuned a few subarus for me with good results

 

 

Now during the tune once he would get into boost it would immediately jump to 24lbs of boost and hit 395 lbs of torque and even with his expertise n tricks of ways to combat it , it couldn't be controlled I had to pay for tune fee350,dyno fee 140 , and 750for the dp ,and 150 to install all wasted n not putting all blame on anyone, but there are others who have had massive overboost issues not just 1-3psi, pls try and email him thru pdx website for the logs I just want a refund I don't have the time or money to redo this n after that that already happened I had to get a new downpipe reinstall n pay for another tune that working with no issues,

 

I was able to get a invidia catless dp used and all I changed was the downpipe n also added a nameless performance mid pipe ,and not touching anything else

And was able to tune with no problems target boost 19.5 with no over boost issues n got 306whp and 356 flbs

Just sent them an email!

Gentlemen,

First off we want to start by saying that we are not trying to ignore you or leave you out in the cold. We had gotten locked out of this account and have now been able to regain access.

So far after re reading every single page and yes we have been reading this every week.

We have seen 2-3 people install these without issue and with a solid tune from a reputable tuner who knows what they are doing and they do not have any issues.

We also have Ryan's car which has been running for a few years with our downpipe and has not had any issues with over boost. He had it tuned at English Racing. On a side note we ask that you not bombard him with questions as he is just trying to be helpful in the situation.

There has been a handful of people who said they have had issues but only one of them provided any solid data on it. Then it seemed this person and his tuner sorted it out then installed an intake and was back to over boosting?

Then we have everyone else who hasn't touched the down pipe complaining it over boost. Well how do you know it does? Have you tried it or are you just reading a story someone had on the forums?

To the people who have tried it and said they had issues. Where are your logs proving that so we can look? What other supporting mods do you have on the car to control boost? We use and recommend the Grim Speed 3 port controller. We use it on all of our race cars here at the shop and never have issues with them.

Keep in mind this downpipe is very complicated to make. If a properly made downpipe is installed on this car it will out flow your factory waste gate the second you get on the gas. This is why you need the correct supporting mods and a tuner who knows how to properly adjust the waste gate duty cycle to make it all work correctly. We have been in contact with English about this and will be posting the information gathered from Ryan's logs.

Currently English's tuner Aaron is having laptop issues and can not record and save data logs. This is part of the reason why we have been unable to get Ryan's car on the dyno to gather supporting data. We are all trying to organize times to meet up and get the car into testing but it can be very difficult with 3 parties who all have conflicting schedules. We are going to come to a conclusion on this. We want you to be happy with this. This is why we do things like group buys to help customers who have rare cars like you guys.

Please understand from our perspective that only 3 of you installed this DP and had no issues. Ryan's car has been running one for years with no issues and then a handful of you came forward suggesting you had experienced over boosting and only one person had supporting evidence there was over boost.

From a business stand point the fact that we only have proof of one issue does not make us eager to refund every order, while we have people that are driving their cars right now with our downpipe installed without issues. We hope you understand our point of view. Like we have explained before, we are not the type of business that ignores theses types of issues. On the other hand we will not just state that we have 3 out there that are working fine, so if you haven't tried it sorry about your luck. We want to help in this process and are doing the best we can with the time and resources we have available.

We are in the process now of getting the information together to help those who claim over boost is an issue. Our companies activities are taking a large portion of our combined time as we are still relatively small, however we are prioritizing this issue and doing what is within our abilities to take action and find a solution. This will take time and we appreciate your understanding in this.

Our racing programs have been growing very quickly, as we are sure some of you have seen on our social media accounts. This takes up a ton of our time and resources. John one of the owners and lead engineers is head of all the racing so he is constantly gone flying all over the US managing race events and ensuring success on all fronts of our racing division. The other owner Jason just had a baby! So he has been very busy doing that. We tell you guys this information because we are a small company, filled with a handful of people just like you, who wants for our customer base to know us more on a personal level and can take pride investing in a product that supports small business as well as some of the best build quality and performance characteristics on the market. Regardless, we are busy and so are you, we understand that and hope that you can work with us on the issues that have been brought forward.

If we truly want to get to the bottom of this please provide us with information from your vehicles so we can analyze the data and address the issue. For those of you who have installed this part reaching out to us with the information would be greatly appreciated.

* Provide us with data logs

* List of supporting mods

* Who tuned it

*List of other mods you have on the car

This will help us immensely in figuring out the issue, we are reaching out to you for your assistance in this matter.

To the guys who have read this forum and not installed it in a fear that your car will over boost. Please sit tight and let the people who have actually tried it get to the bottom of it. Your input does not help with this matter. .

Also to anyone who private messaged this account. We just got all of those when we unlocked this account. We promise we were not ignoring you. Please take note that emailing us is the best form of contact as it will notify us immediately.

Lets all be professional and figure this thing out!

In the mean time we are working with English Racing and Ryan to get a time to do a dyno pull with his car's current setup. Then swap just the DP and touch nothing else then do another pull then plot the two graphs together.

The communities response and the way this was handled has been a huge eye opener for us.

If you need to reach us please talk to our Sales & Costumer support Manager Steven.

Steven.R@namelessperformance.com

Thanks,

The Nameless Performance team