BryanBNR

Bryan, maybe the answer is to not warranty your turbos unless installed by an approved shop. As much as I hate that from a DIY perspective, your primary competition (the VF52) is only warrantied when installed by a Subaru dealer, and you could screen the shops to make sure they know WTF they're doing so that the conditions that normally cause oil starvation would be checked and, if applicable, fixed.

 

Granted, I no longer have any skin in the game, since I now have a 2015 WRX with a low-mount turbo that I don't intend to upgrade, but it seems to me that most of the objection here is that you're not honoring the official terms of your warranty. This is the case because the official terms are very generous. Make the official terms more restrictive, and all of a sudden they get very easy to honor without giving out freebies.

I have a manufacturers defect warranty. That's when internal parts are left out or snap rings pop out, holes not drilled in bearing housing, clearance/blue printing issues. When you have a failure and the shaft isn't blue/purple, I warranty unless its foreign object failure (something sucked up into the turbocharger). The shaft shows you that things were properly oiled or contamiinated.

I have seen no telling how many brand new VF40's that have 1 heat cycle that come rattling from dealers. I used to buy turbo cores all the time for 40-75 bucks from them. It didn't matter to me if they were busted up, I machined all the end housings out for the larger unit and the parts were good to be used again. Its not a installer issue, its an issue with the factory oil supply system. It doesn't effect all of the cars, just a %. Most of the problematic cars are the 05-06 models. They are my most common customers.

When we build a turbocharger, we blue print each one. We check gaps of the turbine seal and compressor wheel, we also check both seal bores for issues. We also inspect every bearing housing to make sure all of the oil supply holes are deburred and drilled. The journal bearings and thrust bearings are checked for clearance, and the rotating assembly is balanced to .5 or less gram/in2.

I usually will not argue with anyone on this subject, but I have seen what these cars do to turbochargers. There is not a car out there that burns up turbochargers like the 05-09 legacy GT and outback XT. I have been doing hi performance turbochargers for close to 20 years.

Not sure what all the "oiling issue" talk is. There is an issue, it's pretty straight forward--banjo bolt screens get clogged over time with improper maintenance. Remove of the banjo screen(s) and addition of another inline filter should solve the issue.

 

Also, 1% of VF40 cores were rebuildable? BNR used to buy (or do core rebate, I can't remember) VF40 cores, no? Are you saying that only 1 in a 100 was usable? That sounds ridiculous.

 

Bryan at BNR has treated me well. I also have run a BNR 16g for several thousand miles with no issues. But the warranty truly seems lacking, especially when people invest good money to follow requirements (oil line kit and OCVs to the tune of ~$400 or so?) and then get denied.

1 out of 100 cores I saw were in rebuildable condition. That means I could put a rebuild kit in and repair the turbocharger and it would be usable. I kept good track of the turbo cores that came in because I used to sell the good center housing rotating assemblies (maybe 10 total) to a guy in another country. When a core would come in, we'd shake the box. If it had the box made a jingle sound we called it the VF40 jingle and knew what it was before we took it out of the box .

I do my best to help everyone I can, but I can't fight everyones battles with plagued cars. When I open the turbo up and the shaft is blue and purple where the shaft has metal fused together, I should warranty because the engines have a oil flow/volume/contaminate issue? How is that the turbos/my fault?

Honestly I get far more questions from your customers than sales. Each one who calls takes 20-30 minutes of my time minimum. Many take much longer and call multiple times.

 

The last batch of 100 oil line kits took over 16 months to sell. So, not all the customers you are "sending" my way are buying anything as the oil line kit sales dont match the turbo sales. The slow sales and exorbitant amount of time spent explaining things is why the oil line kits have now been discontinued.

 

After working with several turbo manufactures and re-builders as well as servicing thousands of cars out of my own shop over the past 6 years, I do not see a need for an "upgraded" oil feed line. Its all about a clean engine and clean oil.

 

I am more than frustrated with the mind set of many manufacturers that all they need to do is create the perception of a problem, then sell the "fix" to the perceived issue. Regardless of whether the issue is real or not.

When 99% of 1000 turbo cores that showed up at my shop with severed shafts, there is an issue sir. I do agree with you on the oil needing to be clean. But the failure rates of the vf40 is very alarming.

I have been building turbos for close to 20 years now and by far the most unreliable turbochargers have seen by far comes on the 05-09 LGt and xt! I have never seen so many shafts broken. The mazdaspeed 3/6 turbos fail left and right but their issue is turbine seal failure. Few speeds have unrebuildable cores.

As far as the LGT sales for me have been down since my web site went down a year ago. Wouldn't have mattered anyway because my exhaust housing mold broke and I couldn't produce anyway. So I had to take a long pause but now they are back in production.

FWIW, I have over 83,000 miles on my vf52 at 21psi, using the stock oil feed line with both OEM banjo filters removed in my 2005 GT.

 

I don't understand why a filter is needed before the turbo, if that filter gets plugged with crap, there is no bypass, which I believe is what the big oil filter on the engine has. I could be wrong, but even the engine manufacture figured out, dirt oil is better than on oil.

 

If that little filter get's plugged up, the turbo is starved for oil...if the turbo is starved for oil...what happens to your warranty claim...

 

May be I'm missing something.

Every car differs. I have an 89 turbo mirage awd auto. I put a shift kit in the transmission and it's fast and reliable. I built a 96 eagle summit awd with the same power plant but I built the trans for big power. I spent probably 3 grand on the summit trans. We'll that trans has been out about 6 times, disassembled 3 times fully rebuilt twice because of internal valve body issues lol. But physically is the same transmission! Lol. I hate that sob.

I have done over 1300 Legacy turbochargers since 2009. These are all my returns in 7 years. ALL of them starved to death. If you refuse to accept this I will gladly find your bearings that came from your unit and give you some pictures and you can send them to any other turbocharger repair shop you want to and get their .02.

I am not here to scam you. If the turbocharger fails and its my fault, I will take care of it. There have been many times that I have fixed turbos that were clearly starved and didn't charge them a dime because they didn't have money.

Like I got denied , when I bought the turbo last year i was told by Brian that in order for the turbo to be under warranty I needed to purchase the oil line kit and Oct and now that the shit broke this year it's no, no, it's not covered. How is that?

Oil starvation isn't covered under warranty. No turbo shop will cover starvation under warranty. It wasn't the turbos fault your engine didn't supply the turbo with adequate oil volume. The one reason why I would run a sandwich plate is to get the turbocharger oil supply from a more reliable location. The cylinder head oil ports are restricted, then the main oil line to the OCV is restricted. The turbocharger shares oil supply with AVCS and it has 3 built in restrictions in that line. If the OCV malfunctions, the oil pressure plummets in the oil line. Just too many easy ways for the turbo to lose its oil pressure even with upgraded oil lines.

Not sure what all the "oiling issue" talk is. There is an issue, it's pretty straight forward--banjo bolt screens get clogged over time with improper maintenance. Remove of the banjo screen(s) and addition of another inline filter should solve the issue.

 

Also, 1% of VF40 cores were rebuildable? BNR used to buy (or do core rebate, I can't remember) VF40 cores, no? Are you saying that only 1 in a 100 was usable? That sounds ridiculous.

 

Bryan at BNR has treated me well. I also have run a BNR 16g for several thousand miles with no issues. But the warranty truly seems lacking, especially when people invest good money to follow requirements (oil line kit and OCVs to the tune of ~$400 or so?) and then get denied.

Alright so you pull the screens that are plugged up with engine fragments and run with out them. Then you contaminate the bearings in the turbo and it dies a miserable death .

Maybe the manufacturer of the turbo should be supplying any necessary accessories for the turbos.

 

If it were my car, I would not be pulling oil from a sandwich plate adapter to feed the turbo.

 

FYI gents, I have all the OEM turbos that come through my shop rebuilt here: Pure Turbos. They require OEM oil supply (nothing aftermarket) and offer a 12month 12000 mile warranty. I have had to use the warranty once in the past 4 years. They turned the turbo around in 24 hours with no questions asked.

 

They also build me custom turbos in OEM housings. Pricing is INSANE for what you get.

 

Just installed a rebuilt (by Pure turbos) VF40 yesterday. Customer picked it up today. I sold the turbo to my customer for $525. I did not lose money on the sale.

I send you lots of business and you refer business elsewhere. That's dirty man.

Btw might I remind you I have seen more vf40 turbos than what you can emagine. 1% of cores were rebuildable. There is a problem with the oil supply. Now you telling people not to do the oil lines, you are setting them up for failure for sure.

Well Bryan, what bothers me is that if i would have been told to do it like i have it now from the start, then it would have been done that way. if I'm told that if i buy something like a turbo and need to get an oil feed kit so it will be covered under a one year warranty and then the turbo goes then it should be cover. just like my kicker substation with one year warranty, if you install with a kicker wiring kit you get an extra year.

 

it is running, last weekend changed the ipt filter from 10 to 40 micron and saw two metal flakes on it so yesterday i changed the oil filter with just 50 miles. also have the turbo oil feed coming from the sandwich plate.

When I sell a turbo I try my best to make people aware of the inherent issues the LGTs have. I can understand your frustration. If the system is all working properly that oil kit does perfectly fine. But as we all know there is a huge issue with oil supply on these cars.

Say you built an engine for someone and they knocked a hole in the pan and kept driving on it until the engine seized. It comes back to you all tore up, would you warranty it?

Hopefully this oiling issue sorted out.

OK Boys and Girls, This is an update. BNR 16G went Kaboom :nono:after 3 oil changes with the ipt 2.1 oil kit . sent the turbo back to BNR and Bryan tells me it's not a 16G like i ordered and payed for, it's a 18G. I ordered a 16g he sends me a 18G (SMH). so i"m under the impression that it's under warranty Apr 30, 2015,yeah OK. Bryan just charged me $385.00 to change the cartridge :spin:oil starvation is not covered and he's sending a -4 Line. But,But, i have a ipt oil kit Not Covered.

So now Bryan wants me to get a Anderson Metals Brass Pipe Fitting, Barstock Street Tee, 1/8" Female Pipe x 1/8" Male Pipe x 1/8" Female Pipe $8.00 , -4 to 1/8 npt fitting and -4 to -4 Mail coupling $18.00, 40 micron filtter for the ipt oil filter replacement part# 704-404FS40 $46.14 From XPR.com so i can feed oil from the sti sandwich plate. motor mount bolts are seized to take the oil pan out, so i jacked the engine up and they broke . so a set of group n sti mounts are on the way $125.00. bought 15qt of oil to flush the engine, $65.00 (i have some filters). also Bought 10w-40 synthetic oil $45.00, gasket Maker $14.00, McMaster-Carr O-rings $17.00 Shipped, ipt order for some other parts was $25.80 and i had went ahead and purchased a Grimmspeed AOL

$277.19 . For the amount of money i paid for the car and all the crap i've put in to it, i could have bought me a GTR . But at the end, The 06 Legacy Gt Makes Me Happy? WTF. With my self.

Sorry that you have oiling issues. Some cars have more issues than others. I do my best to try and help solve the problems.

When the shaft is purple blue and all colors of the rainbow the oil was shut off to the turbocharger.

Bryan, I love my unit! I had the car dyno'd in May and it came in just under 400whp and 405 wt.

thanks!

Which unit did you purchase? Thanks for the support!

Been a long while since I have posted! I just wanted to say thanks for all the business everyone here has given me! Beginning of the year I will drop the prices on my basic EVO/18G for the LGTs back down to $725!

Please don't PM me, just pick up the phone and call!

Have a good Christmas!

Hey Guys. Hope all is well!

On my next batch of barb fittings, I will put a restrictor in the compressor housing barb so you don't have to reuse the stock T fitting. Each batch I like to make revisions like this to help make the products better. New water lines and drain tubes are done. In the next month, they should come with the turbos.

Does anyone have any requests to help my products be more user friendly?

Turkeylord, if you test these EBCS's and they are proven reliable, send me some cards and I can put them in each Subie turbo box we sell.

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

The sand must have been on a pocket inside the compressor housing. It is a sand casting. Just close up the oil feed and drain parts of the bearing housing and blow compressed air through the compressor inlet and outlet. Once cleared, should be fine.

If you don't feel good about doing so, return it and I'll take it apart and get it back to you.

Bryan@BNR

Mike, I hope your business turns around. You do such good work and you have so much knowledge. Any California orders I will suggest to go to you for installation.

I will do my best to get a kit together ASAP. I do have these questions.

What thread pitch is the banjo bolt that goes into the cylinder head?

What length does the main turbo oil supply hose need to be?

What thread pitch does the cap need to be that caps off the original oil supply line that went to the turbo?

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

What?

 

Paging m sprank...

Yeah me too! Mike does such a good job on the oil lines.

Hi Guys.

I am hearing from customers that Mike@infamous is out of oil line kits and may be discontinuing production. Is there an alternate place that supplies filter oil line kits that is installer friendly for the 05-09 LGT/XT's?

Thanks for your help.

Bryan@BNR

BNR 18G

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141668&d=1360518750

 

BNR 20G

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=154011&d=1370635957

I actually have a new TD05 High flow turbine wheel that spools very well with the 20G. I think this 20G is a standard TD05H turbine wheel!

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

I can't get the compressor housing to rotate in/on the hot side for the life of me.

I busted a knuckle and almost pooped my pants trying to.

Thinking I need to take this turbo back out to clock it correctly.

I hope somebody tells me I'm wrong.

 

Any one have some insight on this? I've scoured the threads and only found the above.

 

My situation does not look I need to "slightly rotate the housing".

Mine is like 10º and an inch off.

 

Bolting up the IC and getting an O2 bung welded into my DP are the only things uoldng me up now.

My LC-1 will be here Monday so I can start logging.

 

Edit:

Got it finally.

I had to wrestle the hell out of the TMIC and reposition the TB hose but it's all back together.

It's definitely not in the same spot as when I took it off though as I had to redrill to driver side bracket to get the IC to bolt up. Eh well, whatever.

Sorry about the clocking issue. Tell me which way the turbine housing or compressor housing needs to be clocked. If my jig needs altered, it needs to happen quickly.

As for the water lines, I have them made, just waiting for them to come in.

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

Sorry to hear about your failure. Only way to find out the facts is to get the turbocharger apart.

If the shaft has ANY signs of excessive heat, failure would be starvation.

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

The thread still lives! Hope my customers are doing well!

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

I hear Cobb Plano and AWDTuning are both recommending customers avoid BNR turbos due to high failure rates.

 

I wish they would post some data about their experience instead of spreading rumor via the interwebs.

There is a huge issue with oiling on the LGT's and the Outback XT's. If the issues aren't resolved, no matter what turbo you put on the car it will fail.

But we all know that. I don't see high failure rates. The very few I have seen have all been oil starved.

Now that I think about it Mike, you know I push IP&T tunes and oil lines. I would put money on it that they are not pushing my products because I tell the customers about your e tunes and that takes business away from them lol.

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

Hi everyone! Hope you guys are making the power you want to make with my products!

Bryan@BNR

205 640 1193

My guess is that it's just a mark to help with the balancing process. It'll probably just burn off once you've run it a bit.

You are correct. That paint is picked up by a speed sensor on a balancer.

Bryan@BNR