mwiener2

It's not a Subaru issue, it's a direct injection issue.

I perform the cleaning service on all makes and models and they are all equally dirty.

ALL direct injection engines have the same issue. They all need physical cleaning to remove the deposits.

You're not gonna get any information from SOA other than to follow the recommended service procedures.... which don't cover physical cleaning of the valves.

The factory PCV system directs all the emissions back into the engine to be burned. This causes carbon buildup on the backs of the valves. A Catch Can or Air Oil Separator tries to remove or catch these emissions before they are re-introduced into the engine and prevent the carbon buildup.

The 2.4 DIT suffers from the same carbon buildup that the 2.0DIT and all other Direct Injection engines have.

You spent 6 days researching google links?

No. I googled, "Corrosion in a cooling system", and posted the top 6 results.

Impressed you read through them, cause I didn't.

Curious how people think a hot water tank works... That should give you a clue.

You've never looked inside one. They're brown and covered in rust and corrosion. They probably have a fairly thick layer of gunk on the bottom.

They have an sacrificial anode in them to make them last a little longer.

A residential water heater only has a lifespan of 5 to 15 years. (More expensive models have thicker, better metal and take longer to rust out.)

Oxygen or not, DO NOT USE THE CONDITONER IN YOUR CAR

ALL Direct Injection motors from ALL manufactures suffer from carbon buildup on the valves. The exception being some motors that are direct and port injected.

AOS helps a ton to keep the buildup down, but still plan on a walnut blast at 60k miles.

I see significant buildup as early as 30k miles on some cars.

:lol:

 

oh, my

Still not blowing 5MT's with 500+ AWHP....

Everything you posted involves oxygen.

I can google for favorable results too.

https://vfauto.com/what-causes-rust-in-a-cooling-system/

https://www.aa1car.com/library/cooling_system_electrolysis_corrosion.htm

(This one is about what you're trying to prove, but the electrolysis reaction puts oxygen into the coolant which further propagates the corrosion.)

I found YOU a book - https://dl.asminternational.org/handbooks/book/26/chapter-abstract/351944/Engine-Coolants-and-Coolant-System-Corrosion?redirectedFrom=fulltext

https://www.evanscoolant.com/how-it-works/benefits/no-corrosion/

This one talks about removing oxygen by eliminating water from a cooling system.

https://penray.com/resources/cooling-system-tech-facts/metal-corrosion/

Oxygen is the second listed primary source of corrosion.

https://www.tat.net.au/pdfs/stories/Corrosion_issue23_Oct2011.pdf

Your original statement was that oxidization is not possible in the deep sea because there's not enough dissolved oxygen down there.

I said it happens slowly because there is very little oxygen. Not that it doesn't happen at all.

For all intents and purposes related to cars, there needs to be oxygen present for the cooling system to corrode. The more you open the system and change fluid, the more oxygen is present and more corrosion will happen.

In a perfectly sealed system, it will corrode until all the oxygen is used up then corrosion will stop.

This is how it works in the real world of working on cars... Not in the Wikipedia searches you pulled out your rear.

If you stick your head under water there is enough O2 in the water to breath?

Use this. It works great!

First sentence of what you linked to...

"The term oxidation was first used to describe reactions in which metals react with oxygen in air to produce metal oxides."

OXYGEN IS A REQUIRED CHEMICAL IN THE OXIDATION PROCESS. OXYGEN PRESENCE IS REQUIRED FOR OXIDATION TO OCCUR.

I thought Doctors went to good schools for long periods of time...

There should be a spring from the clutch release fork to a small bracket on the bellhousing that is part of the main ground wire.

It's not going to cause a catastrophic failure if it's missing, but it could cause NVH and pre-mature throwout bearing failure.

You also don't need the snout kit unless there is actual damage to the snout.

DrD123, I really hope you're not a real doctor....

Definition of oxidation

1: the act or process of oxidizing

2: the state or result of being oxidized

Definition of oxidize

transitive verb

1: to combine with oxygen

2: to dehydrogenate especially by the action of oxygen

oxidize an alcohol to an aldehyde

You're telling me we don't need oxygen, but then you use oxygen in your examples of why we don't need it.

It gets really annoying when people argue about stuff they don't really know about...

The spring is to keep slack out of the fork and prevent the bearing from riding on the clutch all the time. Mostly to prevent NVH.

You don't need a new spring if your current is still present.

So you guys don't know what cross loading is...

It's extremely rare for a bag to blow. The bags are made from the same material as semi truck air suspension bags. Your car isn't stressing the bags much. You're more likely to blow a tire, so we're all living onthe edge

Cross loading is when all the weight of the vehicle is on diagonal wheels. This can cause the vehicle to teeter and loose control, sending you right off the road. This can't happen with height monitoring in addition to pressure.

I'm an AirLift Performance dealer and installer. I've done this a few times....

There is no extra load on the compressors with height monitoring.

There are extra parts and install, but you get a much better, safer ride.

When installed properly, the level sensors don't get damaged. (FYI, most modern vehicles, including Subaru's, have factory ride height sensors.)

It's worth not dying.

Splurge for the 3H.

You'll thank yourself later when you don't crash from a cross loading condition.

Pretty much all modern engine oil looks very similar out of the bottle - is it all the same? You really need something more quantitative than a visual assessment to answer the "is it the same" question.

Yes!! 90% of oils on the market are the same with different labels on them.

Oxygen is required for corrosion on planet earth. Are there special cases where it is not? Yes. Is your engine one of them? No.

Doesn't really matter what you use. You'll never find a failure where you could say that wouldn't have happened if I had different oil in there...

I use Royal Purple HPS oils in my customer cars. Not sold in regular stores. Not EPA approved.

T6 isn't the magic juice everyone got a boner for 10+ years ago. It's been reformulated to meet the current EPA standards (just like all the other oils at the parts store) and doesn't have as much extra zinc and phosphorus and other slippery additives anymore.

It's more important to have oil in the engine than what type it is.

JDM motors are different than USDM motors, but not better than USDM motors.

You are headed for a headache and lots of extra work.

Get a USDM motor and save time and money.

Wait WHAT?! You are basing your claim of the conditioner making a mess of the coolant system on your experience of working on cars circa 2010. The blue coolant didn’t start until ~2009 and in 2010 you probably were dealing with the actual EJ motor with headgaskets issues.

Blue coolant first appeared in the Legacy with the 2008 model year. There seemed to be a mid year switch as some 2009 WRX's are green and some are blue. By 2010, everything is blue.

Not sure what your point is here. I have been professionally working on cars since 2009. I was involved with modifying them as a hobby and spent countless "research" hours on the forums starting in 2004. I'm as much as an expert on Subaru high performance as you can get until you join the factory rally team.

I have worked on thousands of Subaru's. I have seen hundreds that are blown up, some catastrophically. None of them would have been saved by the conditioner, none of the failures were directly caused by the conditioner. Any that had conditioner in them, were obvious they had it. It makes a really big mess of the cooling system.

It's very obvious if a car has the conditioner or not. They do NOT come from the factory with conditioner.

I am not a general mechanic. I only do performance work and have been for over 13 years. I see different issues than the dealerships normally do.

When I was just starting, I added the conditioner to almost every vehicle. After a few years and seeing the cars come back all gunked up, I stopped using it to no ill effects.

I do not know any professional Subaru mechanic that would recommend using the conditioner on a turbo Subaru, especially on the performance side of things.

The conditioner has been confirmed to be a stop leak type product. Any pro will tell you to stay far away from products like this.

This is really not a debate. DO NOT USE THE CONDITONER

DrD123 - You're wrong about closed system corrosion. Oxygen has to be present for corrosion to happen. This is why boats and planes at the bottom of the sea can be preserved for 100's of years. There is very little oxygen at deep depths. The engine cooling system is also not 100% aluminum. There are plenty of steel parts touching water.

We know it doesn't because new Subaru's don't have white shmegma gunking up their cooling system.

This is simple closed system technical stuff. There is oxygen present in the cooling system. The oxygen reacts with other stuff and oxidizes. Eventually, all the oxygen oxidizes and there is none left and the corrosion stops. If the system is opened or new coolant is added, new oxygen is present and the corrosion continues.

Our coolant system is not actually "closed" since it can breathe through the overflow bottle. But I wouldn't call it an open system either.

The conditioner did not blow up the engine directly, but decreased cooling system performance could contribute to a failure of the motor. Since the conditioner is a band-aid, it would never be blamed on a failure since there would be a more direct cause, like a blown headgasket. Determining the role of the conditioner on a hedgasket failure on a per car basis is almost impossible to prove.

When do I get a badge that says. "I've been doing this longer than you. I'm actually a professional. Please just listen to me.?"

If the conditioner was so super critical, it would come from the factory with it in the cooling system.

It's a chemical band-aid to reduce warranty claims.

The change interval is 130+k miles. If you are changing it before then, there must be something wrong and add chemical band-aid to prevent a claim. Also, you've opened the system and introduced air. Since everyone is incompetent and can't burp the system properly, add chemical band-aid to prevent excessive corrosion, early failure, and a claim.

If you make it to 130+k miles, holy crap it's old, there could be a problem, add chemical band-aid.

The issues that the chemical can "fix" are not fixed properly. The conditioner only delays problems, and in many cases, causes problems by gunking up the cooling system.

I can guarantee that the dealerships are not adding conditioner every time they service a cooling system.

DO NOT USE THE CONDITIONER!

I used to see a lot of engines with conditioner in them up to around 2010 (The actual year, not model years of cars.) After that, I saw less and less.

Recently, I see a car with conditioner about once a year. Usually a EJ20 WRX that only had 1-3 owners. Usually blown up.