Mach V Dan
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Posts posted by Mach V Dan
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Can you confirm the bolt pattern and bore center on the '20 Legacy.
5x114, 56.1mm centerbore.
Dan
Mach V
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Are you SURE the front end is scraping? Have you looked at the underside of the front bumper to see if there are scrape marks? This car has a LOT of ground clearance. Unless you go bombing into driveways at 20 mph, it seems unlikely it's rubbing the bottom of the front bumper.
One possible explanation for the sound you are hearing is that the car may be slightly spinning one tire. If you enter the driveway at an angle, and apply power, the unloaded wheel may spin momentarily, causing a brief noise that can sound like grinding. Maybe have someone stand outside the car while you do it and they can observe what's happening?
Dan
Mach V
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I like them. Drove a four-hour trip and a ten-hour round trip. Comfortable, no pain.
Dan
Mach V
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We just got in a brand-new wheel that would be nice on the 7G Legacy.
It's Rota Kestrel. 19x9.5" +40. They weight only 20.5 pounds each.
Dan
Mach V
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I'm looking at getting a set Option Lab S716 18x9.5 +35 running 255/35/18 tires.
You have at least two problems. The offset of that wheel is too low, and the tire size is way too small.
Your stock wheels are +55 offset. Your proposed new wheels are 2" wider, and stick out 20mm more. I don't think that's going to work; the tire will contact the fender at full compression. Oh, but also your proposed tire size is 7.1% shorter than stock. Your speedometer would be off by that much, your gearing is going to be wonky, the car is going to sit lower to the ground by almost an inch, and it'll just look strange. You need a taller tire; the closest 255 size would be a 255/45R18.
I'm concerned the width might be an issue here, but reading your post it seems that I shouldn't have issues.I think you need to understand the numbers better before you try to bolt new wheels and tires to your car.
Dan
Mach V
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Mach V Dan, thanks for the heads up regarding the parking break and seatbelt. I always wear my seat belt, but just hypothetically, if someone is not wearing the seatbelt with the parking break on, will the car be able to move? And if it does, would it wear down the parking break?
The car will move, but with the brake on there's obviously a huge drag, so it's not likely you're going to just drive off at full speed with the parking brake still engaged. Plus if you start driving without wearing your seat belt, the car begins to complain quite stridently.
You can always disengage the parking brake using the button...
Dan
Mach V
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Anything from a 2020 WRX or sti? Being that we're like Legos I wonder if they're similar. Or if the whole global platform throws that off
The suspensions are different. The rear is somewhat similar, but the front has a whole different sway bar setup -- the end link on the Legacy/Outback connects to the strut body, rather than the lower control arm like on the WRX/STI.
Dan
Mach V
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There's a few more functions like that that puzzled me at first. For instance, if the parking brake is set and you press the gas in D or R, the parking brake automatically disengages. UNLESS you don't have your seat belt on.
Dan
Mach V
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Wheels look great! Little drop and I'd say you have a very simple and clean setup!
I agree, but for now there's nothing out there to drop it with. The car hasn't come out in Japan yet, so there's nothing I can grab for the JDM parts bin at this point.
Dan
Mach V
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.is there a change from 2015 front brakes to 2020. I could not mount those 16” wheels
The front rotors are new for 2020. I haven't been able to measure them yet, but they look like the 2015+ WRX brakes, which are 316mm x 30mm. (12.4" x 1.2"). If that's what they are, they require minimum 17" wheels to fit over them.
Dan
Mach V
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I put the stock tires on some 18x8.5" +44 Flow-Form Rota Grid wheels. Even the regular cast Grids are a good bit lighter than stock at 22.0 pounds, but the flow-form ones are another three pounds lighter than that.
Switching back to the 18" wheels/tires from the 20's, the car definitely feels floatier in terms of handling, and more vague in the steering. The tall sidewalls definitely are good for ride comfort, though. Even major potholes just sort of get sponged up, whereas with the 20's I tried to avoid them.
Dan
Mach V
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I just weighed the stock wheels. They are 27.9 pounds each. I saved almost six pounds a wheel with my +2 upgrade...
Dan
Mach V
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Hey Dan -
Any interest in selling your OE 7.5x18 et55 alloy take-offs?
I think we can probably come to some kind of arrangement. I can't seem to PM you. Email me at dan@machv.com.
Dan
Mach V
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There has to be a wheel from the Subaru wheel palette, maybe a silver 10 spoke forged WRX wheel?
Maybe there's something suitable over in my wheel department?
Dan
Mach V
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17" are about right in terms of ride comfort and handling.. doing larger wheels = increased harshness as the sidewall will not absorb as much,,
Tire diameter alone does not dictate ride comfort and handling. The 7th-generation Legacy has a significantly larger tire diameter than, say, the 5th-generation, and if you make the tire diameter larger while keeping the wheel size the same, the sidewall has to get bigger.
The stock 17" tire on the 2014 car was a 215/50R17. The 2020 car has a 225/55R17, which has a 17% taller sidewall than the older car. Even the 2020 car's 18" wheels have a 5% taller sidewall than the 2014 car's 17" wheels. Because of the sidewall difference, the 2014 Legacy 17" tire would feel firmer/harsher than the 2020 Legacy's 18" tire.
So, yes, going to larger-diameter wheels does mean a shorter tire sidewall, but what is "ideal" is going to depend on your starting point and what you are trying to achieve.
Dan
Mach V
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What I would like to know is how the handling is affected... What is it like with your lower profile and better tires? I realize the geometry is changed and it wourld be hard to say what had more of an impact.
The handling is a little better -- there's basically no tire squish and squirm, which is a big change from the big doughy stock tires. But the springs and shocks and sway bars are unchanged, so there's still the same soft ride and overall body roll/dive/squat is the same. There's definitely some more vibration and impact transferred into the body that was absorbed by the OEM tires.
Dan
Mach V
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I'll have to check it out when I bring my GT in for an oil change. Are you going to mock up some Mach V Awesome Wheels on it?
If I can get some free tires to do it with. Most of the Mach V wheels we sell have WRX/STI-diameter tires on them. The Legacy has larger-diameter tires. I'd need to special-order tires in order to try the 18x9.5" wheels. I probably won't do that just to try the wheels on. It's possible we'll take some off a customer car at some point, though...
Dan
Mach V
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Today I put some 20" wheels on my 2020 Legacy XT Touring. I thought I'd share a little bit about my experiences, how it fit, and some of the calculations I did. If other people want to add to this thread later with more wheel/tire fitment info, that would be great.
Intro:
At least in the US, the 2020 Legacy comes with either a 17" wheel (7" steelies or 7.5" alloys) with a 225/55R17 tire, or an 18x7.5" wheel with a 225/50R18 tire. Note that the 18" tire is 0.7% taller than the 17" tire. The speedometer/odometer is calibrated to the tire size the car came with.
Even the 18" wheel looks very small on this car, and the big plush sidewalls are not very sporty in appearance or in feel. The wheels and tires are also not very flush with the fenders, although that pushed-in look is not as pronounced as with some Subarus.
Calculations:
I considered several options for larger wheels/tires. I really felt from an aesthetic standpoint a 19" wheel was the smallest I wanted to do. My XT Touring came with the larger 18" tire, so I used that as the baseline diameter for my tire calculations.
225/50R18: 26.9" diameter, 84.3" circumference, 8.9" tread width, 4.4" sidewall.
I wanted a wider tire, so I looked at some 245 width options:
245/40R19: 26.7" diameter (0.7% shorter), 83.9" circumference, 9.6" tread width, 3.9" sidewall.
245/35R20: 26.8" diameter (0.4% shorter), 84.0" circumference, 9.6" tread with, 3.4" sidewall.
That's a pretty good match right there, and if I was choosing wheels I would just pick a 20x8.5" wheel with a slightly lower offset than stock, and go with that. However, my friends at Titan7 had some 20x9.5" forged wheels I could get for a very reasonable price, and a 245 tire would have been very narrow on that wheel. Time to go back to the calculations.
Specific specs on the wheels: Manufacturer is Titan7, style is called T-R10. Color is Satin Titanium. Size is 20x9.5" 5x114.3 +63. They are forged and weigh 22.1 pounds each. Centerbore on these is 68.05; I think they were originally made for a Lotus Evora? I had to order some custom 68-56.1 hubcentric rings from ebay so the wheels would be hubcentric to the car.
Back to the tire sizing:
265/30R20: 26.3" diameter (2.2% shorter). The 265 tread width would be a perfect match to the 9.5" wide wheel, but measuring fender and strut clearance, it was looking like a 265 width would be a very tight fit. Plus, I try to keep the diameter within 2% of stock to minimize speedometer/odometer error.
255/35R20: 27.0" diameter (0.4% taller than stock), 84.9" circumference, 10.0" tread width, 3.5" sidewall. Not too bad a fit on the wheel, looks like it'll just barely fit between the front strut and the front fender. I think we have a winner. Plus, that happens to be a fairly common size for high-performance sedans, with lots of options in terms of brand and tire type. I ordered a set of Vredestein Ultrac Vorti tires in that size.
Fitment on the car:
The rear suspension on the 2020+ Legacy is a variant of the same multi-link setup that Subaru has been using on everything since 2008. One nice thing about it is that there's almost infinite rear inner tire clearance, so my super-high-offset wheels worked fine. I only had to worry about the inside of the tire rubbing on the fender liners and the brake line. Both cleared. Note that the lower suspension arm and the rear knuckle itself are now made of forged aluminum.
The front suspension is a strut design like most modern cars, and the shock body is the limiter in terms of how far inboard the wheel/tire can go. My +63 20x9.5" wheel bumped into the strut, so we mounted some Mach V 10mm wheel spacers. The stock wheel studs are not long enough to bolt the wheel on then, so we installed longer wheel studs as well. This effectively positioned the wheel/tire assembly at +53 offset.
Pressing the old studs out using an air hammer
Note that there is a little access from the back of the front brake backing plate, so you can get the stock studs out and pull the new studs in without having to take the whole front hub apart.
Longer stud vs original studs
10mm spacer in place. Mach V Motorsports (my business) makes these spacers. They are unusual because they are Subaru-hubcentric to both the car and the wheel.
Test-fitting the front wheel and tire.
So far so good -- looks like it fits and everything clears. The back actually has a little extra room at the fender, so the offset back there could be even lower. The front is pretty tight at the fender, and there's very little room between the tire and strut -- maybe 3-4mm?
The fenders are pretty much flat/pre-rolled on the inside where the tire would contact, so there's almost nothing to roll. In the back there's just a bead at the top of the wheel well, not even a folded sheet metal lip, so you're not going be rolling that.
So there you go. That's about as wide a tire as I think I can fit on this car. If you wanted to make it easier and avoid the front spacers, I'd probably do a 20x8.5" wheel at +48 or so, and a 245/35R20 tire, or a 19x8.5" +48(ish) wheel with a 245/40R19.
Dan
Mach V
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I'm still not sold on the CVT.
As long as you like it, that's all that matters for you. Congrats either way.
I don't love it. For normal, everyday use, it's totally fine. I don't find myself thinking about it. For sporty driving, not my favorite. It tends to seek the highest-horsepower RPM setting, which is pretty high up in the rev range, when if I was shifting it myself I might have it rev lower and lean on the torque more. You can use the flappy paddles to adjust that, but it drops out of that mode after a short time. Maybe I need to spend more time with the owner's manual to figure out the operation and user interface better.
Speaking of RTFM (Read The Manual...), I did figure something out that bothered me. The cruise control +/- buttons to change the cruise speed change the speed by 5 mph per press, which is just confusing and weird to me. I have never seen this in any car I ever owned. I guess it's because it has cruise control down to zero mph? Turns out (I learned from the owner's manual) if you press and HOLD the +/- buttons, you get adjustments in 1 mph increments, like I'm used to from other cars.
Dan
Mach V
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Can we get pictures?
Mine is white and stock for now, so I'll just defer to the professionals...
Dan
Mach V
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Back a few years I had a 2005 Legacy GT wagon. I loved that car, but business demands required I move on. Now it's a few years later and there's a turbo Legacy again, so I bought a 2020 Legacy XT Touring in white.
I just filled up the tank after driving 380 miles. Here are some initial thoughts.
Interior Quality: It's good! The Touring leather is very nice. The color is interesting and people who get in the car always comment about it. It looks and feels good. I hope it wears well.
I love the steering wheel. The leather covering is kind of sand-papery, much grippier than the slicker leather in my 2015 WRX. I love it.
I do sometimes accidentally hit the downshift button when I mean to change the info on the dash. Both those controls are finger-tip access on the left side of the back of the wheel.
The seats are good. There's plenty of adjustments, and I don't feel tired even after a long drive. The seats in the Touring are fan-cooled. When on max the fans make a lot of noise. That's weird. Otherwise I can't really tell that they are fan-cooled...
The trunk is really big! Hauls all my boxes of parts up to my store at the race track.
Info-tainment: The center screen is massive. Visually it's kind of a mess, but I've seen worse. I do like that you can just touch it, rather than have to navigate through it without an outboard control knob. But I feel like touch-screens in a car are a step backwards. If I am forced to take my eyes off the road to operate the car, that's not a good thing.
Someone else posted about the USB slots being hard to reach. I put in a tiny micro USB drive and almost had to resort to tweezers to remove it. Oh, and while I'm on that subject, you can tell it to shuffle your USB drive, but the next time you get in the car it will forget that and you'll have to tell it to shuffle again...
The Harman-Kardon sound system is solid. Gets plenty loud, sounds good for an OEM system.
Magic Driving Tech: The suite of driver aids in this car is pretty amazing. I recently drove an Audi RS5, and it had self-driving, lane-centering, slow-down-all-the-way-to-zero cruise control, all that. I thought it was cool, but hey, that car costs like $75,000, of course it does amazing things.
But really, the Legacy does all that stuff too, and at half the price. The lane-centering works quite well, the cruise control is kind of astounding, and it even tells you to keep your eyes on the road if you start staring at that attractive BRZ next to you.
I actually don't really want all this nanny-tech. I fear we are just becoming less involved with the car and it'll just allow us to let our attention wander even more. But hey, you can't stop progress. I am getting used to it.
I wish it had a birds-eye-view camera thing, where you can see the car and its surroundings as if from directly above the car. My wife's Nissan Leaf has that, and it's awesome for parking. But a front camera is better than nothing.
Performance: The handling is good for a semi-heavy car. It's no ATS-V or 3-series, but it's comfortable and I don't feel scared hustling it around a country road. I haven't really pushed the engine, since I'm still doing the break-in miles, but it feels strong enough for normal duty. The brakes also seem fine, although it's been a while (uh, maybe never) since I have owned a car with this much mass, and it doesn't stop as fast as some of my lighter cars.
The CVT is pretty good. Just as in the WRX, I thought I would hate it, but it's not bad, and I usually forget it's a CVT.
Exterior: Meh. This car is plain, plain, plain. Someone said "When did you get the grandpa car?" Yep, it looks like an Avalon. Maybe not the current Avalon, which is a little bit aggressive. That older one that nobody can remember seeing.
I am going to fit some 20" wheels for looks. If I can find some sport suspension from the JDM parts bin, I will add that too. I don't know if there will be a Cobb Accessport for the car, but I've put my vote in for one.
So those are my first thoughts. If you have questions, let me know. In a week or so I will have the car on the lift and will give some of my thoughts on the mechanicals of the car and about wheel/tire fitment.
Dan
Mach V
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Could some help me & advise me what size of rims & wheels for my legacy gt limited it has suspencion STI-BILSTEIN with calipers brembo perferd 18 in. plis thnak u
Rims ARE wheels. 18x8" +48 would be excellent. Most of the Rota wheels we sell will clear those brakes, but not all 18" wheels will.
--Dan
Mach V
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Endlinks are universal, in terms of fitting any diameter sway bar. (They're specific to the application -- that is, front of a Legacy GT -- but it doesn't matter how fat the sway bar is, as long as the link is strong enough.) The endlink just transmits force from the suspension to the sway bar and vice versa. You should not notice any change in handling from changing them out, unless your current ones are bent or broken.
--Dan
Mach V
hmm gotcha. if i do go aftermarket endlinks w stock sway, will i have to get new endlinks when i do get a bigger sway, or are they "universal" cause im not seeing diff sizes or anything like that for an upgraded sway. so i shouldnt have any diff handling characteristics by only changing out the front? once again, thanks
337K mile original shortblock 5-speed GT wagon FS in Oregon - original Mach V car?
in Fourth Generation Legacy (2005 - 2009)
Posted · Edited by Mach V Dan
Added link to stereo thread
It is!
It still has the subwoofer I put in there. I wonder if it still has the hard-drive-based MP3 player setup?
Dan
Mach V
FastWRX.com