strikethree

Jeepers! I am all over this thread now. Sorry folks. I just LOVE winter driving though.

I have some advice for you (which you are free to ignore of course). Whenever I suspect that traction conditions may be changing, I apply my brakes to verify my traction. If traction is good, I will slow down from 60 to 40 (example numbers) very quickly. If traction is bad, the anti-lock brakes will kick in rapidly. I then adjust my driving speed and style accordingly. Do not try this on a turn or if someone is right behind you.

strike

This past Thursday, I was driving a friend up from NJ to VT (Mt Snow area). It was about 2, maybe 2.30am when unknown to me, the rain that was falling started to freeze and left a small layer of ice on the roads.

 

The first sign that I felt was from the front end of the car when I was going at about 50mph. It felt like it was hydroplaning slightly when I was going around corners. From there, I was able to go a few more miles (and about 2-3 minutes later) when I definitely felt the loss of traction. I don't remember what ticked me off to that, but I immediately started to slow down and traveled at a crawl of 10-15mph, just hoping to make it to the house (which was about 18 miles away).

 

From that point, I was able to drive for another minute or two until we made it up a hill and I saw a tractor trailer off on the wrong side of the road, as if it had skidded off and ended up in the left guard rail. It was finally there that we decided to stop, call it a night, and park the car off as far as I could in the right gravel shoulder (to keep myself from sliding down the hill or whatever). After we stopped, I stepped out of the car to get some stuff from the trunk and almost slipped. The ENTIRE road surface was covered in a sheet of ice probably 1/8" thick.

 

Anyways, enough of the story and back to the point. It was only at the end when I slowed down/stopped at the sight of the trailer and when I tried to bring my car to a safe parking spot off the side of the road did the rear ever push forward. However, it was nothing that wasn't easily controllable with a little bit of opposite steering.

 

Without the AWD given to us in these cars, there is no way I would have made it as far as I did and it probably would have been much worse off when I first noticed the signs going around the bends (if I was in a FWD car).

A piece of advice when you know your traction is about to hit 0. Do not let up on the gas. Well, you can let up on it a little bit, but if the tires do not turn at the same speed you are travelling, you are going to spin out of control. This advice does not apply if your traction is 10% or better.

strike

I experienced the tail wagging problem on my 2005 LGT wagon a couple weeks ago. The wagon has Michelin Pilot Sport tires and was lightly loaded with one passenger, 2 snowboard and ski jackets. The highway has been plowed and was completely dry. The temperature was around 20deg. Every car/truck was going at the speed limit of 55mph.

As I was approaching an overpass, I noticed a patch of ice spanning the width of the road directly under a bridge. The road section was perfectly straight, so I reduced the throttle slightly to let the car ride over the ice. The car was composed as the front wheels moved onto the ice. When all four wheels were on the ice patch, the rear started swinging in a left and right motion with the pivot point at the engine compartment. When the car moved back to dry pavement, it regained composure immediately.

At no point did it felt like the tail end was going to spin around but it was disconcerting.

Oooooo. My wife bought a 240SX years ago. Oh my god was that thing horrible when perfect driving conditions were not available. She flew off the road so many times it scared me. Thankfully, she drove at 10mph (in the snow) so she was never hurt but I sold that piece of crap as soon as I could. I later found out that I could have added a LSD to the rear which would have GREATLY improved its handling in limited traction conditions.

strike

My '07 Nismo Frontier over steered. It died at 9812 miles from stepping the rear end out, at 60 MPH on the freeway, in the wet and kissing the median with its a**. I can usually control a sideways sliding vehicle (Had a Nissan 240SX that loved to fish tail even in the dry.), but it becomes really hard to control a 4700 lbs. 4x4 at 60 MPH, going sideways. I was hoping that the LGT was better, so far no problems.

Eh? My 2006 LGT and my 92 Eagle Talon are not like that at all. They are both AWD and both handle awesomely in the snow. As a matter of fact, 2 years ago, I had to drive up to Denver in the middle of a snowstorm with summer performance tires on my Talon. I left my friend in his Lancer Evolution with Blizzaks in the dust (snow actually) and I thought I was being careful. There were cars and semis and such strewn all over the sides of I25 but I had no issues. God forbid I would have been driving my LGT with quality M+S tires on it. I would have had to wait over a half hour, rather than 10 minutes, for my friend then. (the Evo handles great too. My friend was too paranoid and not skillful enough)

In short, I am calling out your driving style if you think all AWD cars have the issues the Outback has.

strike

Every AWD car I have ever driven is said in conditions is like this. It is what it is.

I do not own an Outback, however, I did push one really hard during a test drive. The ass end is HEAVY. I tried throwing it around a sharp corner at high speed and I could feel the back end trying real hard to get in front of the front end. That is ultimately why I did not buy an Outback. Very nice vehicle otherwise.

If your speed and direction is constant, the issue I described above should not be a problem. It would only become a problem during braking.

strike

Thanks for the replys. Tirerack.com has them (M3) highly rated so like always it depends who you ask. What's nice about Tirerack's data is that it's ratings system is based on real life owners of the product.

 

I have had the car aligned and there wasn't anything major that was off (minor adustments). Subaru must know something is wrong since they just issued a technical update on changes to the spec for the rear alignment and to make sure rear tires are at 30psi with no load <200 LBS. and 37.5 when greated then 200 LBS.

 

If you go to http://www.subaruoutback.org/ there's a very active thread on this topic. Do a search for "05 Outback and Newer DANGEROUS ON THIN ICE". I didn't start the thread but have experernced the issue.

 

I own a 98 Legacy also and driving the same road, same conditions, and it's a night and day difference. The 98 is safe and secure. The 05 is a handful. I drive around 40K a year for busines in all types of conditions (company car and not a Subaru). So I'm aware how to drive in these conditions (and don't expect to drive on thin snow/ice conditions the same as dry pavement) but when other car/trucks are passing you left and right, and to keep the car safe you need to stay way below the speed the other traffic is traveling, there's an issue (and I beleive its with the car).

 

The bases of me asking this here was to determine if there's a difference with the 05 and newer Legacy's compared to the Outbacks.

If you are getting headaches, the first thing I would check is your eyes. Seriously. If you wear glasses, your prescription may have changed. If you don't wear glasses, your eyes could be fighting hard to maintain focus. If one eye has less acuity than the other, it will cause severe headaches.

I did the hogzaust today and the noise is nowhere near as loud as my 92 Eagle Talon and it has no exhaust leaks. My Talon is MUCH quieter now that I added more exhaust system to the downpipes, but even with a good muffler, it is still louder than the hogzaust. At cruising speeds, I can barely even hear it.

My 15 year old daughter (who loves my Talon) just kind of said, "meh", about the new tone. My friend (who built my Talon for me) agreed that it sounded meaner but I could tell he was trying really hard to be open minded about a mod that is not strictly for *performance.

However, I have some interesting news about performance. I did not think it was worth it to do a before and after dyno run for it. That would increase the costs a thousandfold! But...

My butt dyno said that there was at most, 8 lbs more torque. Most of that, I attributed to the new sound. I am like a kid with a bike who puts a clothespin and a card so the spokes click, so I figured it was probably ALL my imagination... but that may not be so. Read on:

There is a stretch of private road just over a quarter mile long near my house. I have done several 3rd gear runs on it starting at 2000RPMS. I always top out at about 92MPH before I have to stop rapidly. An hour ago, I topped 100MPH. WTF?

My car is mostly stock. There was some sort of aftermarket intake air filter in it when I bought it. The only change has been the hogzaust. There is no way bypassing the mufflers would create 10 extra MPH. I have no idea WTF is up. I am going to hook my Tactrix cable up again and compare a new third gear run with several older logs I have of the same run. I will post here again if I find anything interesting out. Very weird. (I bought the Tactrix cable for logging, I already have a badass car I can reprogram)

strike

Nothing evil to be found, as far as I remember (and I think I've read the whole thread!).

 

I'm 36, and my wife actually said she LIKED the sound - made the car sound more aggressive. Asked if I could do something similar for her Mazda3. Had to tell her no, because the M3's exhaust is one piece from cat to tailpipe. Actually, maybe even from DP or exhaust manifold to tailpipe. I didn't want to actually make a permanent modification..

 

Then again, I've found that, IMHO, most cars/trucks in CA are louder than I'm used to. Not sure if that's because most people opt for the "sports/performance" option/model, or whether they're just tuned differently (versus Ontario, Canada). Same Chevy Tahoe/Yukon definitely did NOT sound that loud in Ontario.

 

So, now "Momo" just fits in better, rather than sticking out. btw, I'm at stage 0.5 (one relatively thick washer, passenger side only). Too much noise, and I get headaches. My brother-in-law and I made our own exhaust for my 2.0l16v Golf out of stainless steel about 10 years ago. Felt like it made an extra 15-20 hp up top, but MAN was it loud. Got a headache driving 15 minutes across town.. Had to stuff it with rock wool to quiet it down some.

 

I have actually thought about undoing the Hogzaust, just to see if it's been causing the headaches I've been having as of late (don't think so - doesn't seem to be related to driving). That would be the only negative I could think of: if you're very sensitive to a little droning while cruising..

 

VW

Hahaha. I am 40. Let the kid inside of you live a little. Keeps the heart attacks at bay as you get older.

strike

So being a new owner, I went to Stage 2 Hogzaust this weekend. And I can say initially I was undecided, I mean I liked the sound, nice and throaty, but then my wife saw and heard the mod, and her comment was, "how old are you?" I then I realized why I was undecided and why I will probably go back to stock. I mean, I am 33 years old, and here I am modding something strictly for sound, no performance gain whatsoever. So for me, call me old, but I really want the performance, not the sound that goes along with it. I'll go buy a geniune turbo-back if I want one. This mod is simply all show, no go for me. Sorry.

Yeah, I know. I am responding to something over a year old... however, my 2006 Legacy GT Limited feels quite stable over 100mph. It is stock (until I do the hogzaust mod that is).

I wonder how far over 1000 posts this thread is now.

strike

They are really peppy in town, but do suffer from a "floaty" feeling on the highway (80+ mph). It gets tossed around at high speeds.

Actually, I have just heard of this just now. Been reading this thread for three hours and it looks like I have another 8 hours of reading to go to finish it.

I am going to do this tomorrow (assuming I find nothing evil in the later posts).

strike

Na - it'll be a failure like most of my other threads...i think the majority of people that have done it has posted, because they are so surprised it sounds so good.

I bet there arent many who have done it, and not commented one way or another.