fuzzysoul

Heysoos Christos. This thread was about carbon, and erryboddy starts arguing like these cars run on cable-actuated throttle bodies. Anybody mention a single thing about crankcase ventilation? PCV valves? Catch cans? Or ... I dunno, PULLING THE INTAKE MANIFOLD AND SHOVING A BORESCOPE INTO THE BLOODY HO- Sorry. Sorry. I'll calm down. I promise. Has anyone with a 2020+ Turbo Legacy or Outback pulled the manifold and checked their actual, physical valves? Anybody? Anybody actually pay for a walnut shell blasting on their intake valves? Make it up. Pretend to be a Subaru tech with 85 years of experience and a pristine employment record. I don't care. Just demonstrate that you understand the full topic at hand. [Injector cleaner is great for your direct injector nozzles. I use it every other oil change. It will do piss all for the intake valves , which is where carbon buildup should be your biggest concern, given the history of DI engines. Toyota uses dual injection - port and direct - to fix this problem and keep valves clean. Also, do not discount that your ECU "learns" how you drive and adjusts your throttle map accordingly. It does so with efficiency, not performance, in mind, since Subaru's CAFE average is approaching godawful with these inefficient pancake engines. Products like Pedal Commander claim to be able to fool your ECU into behaving more predictably.]

This Content Is Relevant To My Interests According to the very imprecise measuring I did on my '21 Touring, it has a 19mm rear sway bar. So, Suby is using the last gen sway bar, even on the "new" platform? Huh. Lot cheaper than the Whiteline part...

Dammit, that was going to bother me, so I checked. It appears that both the 2022 Sport and Touring XT used the same strut numbers as my 2021. The theory lives on... (Wait, what if these are just cheaper, crappy struts from a base model that they put on to "stiffen up the ride?") ... Huh, looks like even the lowliest 2.5 base crate gets the same shocks as my '21 Touring. Please, someone prove me wrong here. I want to believe that I can spend $700 on OEM parts and get my car to stop wafting side-to-side like a 18th Century fishing vessel.

When Subaru announced the 2023 Legacy in May, they paid special attention to the introduction of an upgraded Sport trim, promising "sport-tuned suspension." The new model is hitting lots now - in limited quantities - and it now has a listing in the online parts catalog. I'm curious if it's worth driving, or if it's just a Limited XT with polyvinyl seats, throttle setting controller, and a red stripe. So, I did a completely arbitrary and unscientific dive into the drawings and BOM. I am no configuration management expert, but there appears to be suspension changes that are unique to the 2023 Sport model, at least from a part number perspective. Again, lots of things can change part numbers, including supplier changes or the substitution of parts with slightly different but acceptable parameters for the design (the supply chain is a wreck right now). I'm assuming that Subaru is making no major changes to its suspension architecture for one trim of one of its least popular models. I chose to look at coils, shocks, and sway bars, because that's low hanging fruit for most amateur suspension changes. I did not look at bushings, because I am easily bored. Both the new Legacy Sport and Touring XT are using the same coil part number as my 2021 Touring XT (20380AN00A). Both new cars have a new rear sway bar number (20451AN00C) that differs from my car (20451AN00A). While the drawing points to the sway bar (drawing number 20451), the part entry is labelled "stabilizer bushing." It's possible the bushing number changed due to supply constraints or whatevs. The front sway bar number remains unchanged. (What is the point of this post, Fuzz-) SHOCKS. Shocks are where a lot of change shows up. (They kinda look like struts to me...) Subaru called them "shock absorbers," Imaginary Straw Man, so that's what I'm calling them. The rear shock absorber for both my 2021 and the 2023 Touring XT (drawing number 20365) is listed as 20365AN00A. The 2023 Sport model has this listing as well as another part number - 20365AN03A. Both left and right front shocks have a similar dual listing, sharing the 20310AN00A and 20310AN01A part numbers with the 2021 and 2023 Legacies (Legacys?) as well as additional 20310AN06A and 20310AN07A numbers. (Did you check the 2022 numbers to see if these where introduced last model year during the pandemic?) Here's the link to the Subaru online parts catalog. Have fun; be safe; etc...

Guess that's my next homework assignment. Eyeballing it? I'd say it's all springs and struts. The links and arms look identical. Had difficulty getting good pictures for comparison, since my phone wants to adjust for the ambient light, not the shaded components. The 7th gen Legacy also rides much like a 6th gen Outback, meaning it's hilariously fun on rough roads, but wobbles too much for my taste on pavement, without all that cushy springage to make it pleasant.

Had an excess of spare time today, so I backed my '21 Legacy and my wife's '20 Outback onto the ramps and did some measuring. TLDR: I'd bet money these are the exact same part. Caveats: You are getting this information from a stranger on the Internet. The tools used here include a 15-year-old, Imperial-only Lowes tape measure and a cheap, metric-only digital caliper from Amazon. Your mileage WILL vary, and you should do your own due diligence. Diameter-wise, both sway bars are 19mm. The outer width of both bushings at the widest point is 43mm (remember, the aftermarket bar would be thicker and have different inner diameter in the bushing to fit). The width of tongues (tongues? tongues!) on the bars is 6mm on both. Those are the "precise" measurements. Now for some wild Imperial eyeballing with a rusty carpenter's tape: The distance between tongues is 38.25" on both. The length from outside bend to outside semicircular bend (just making up terms here) is 41.5". The "depth" of the tongue from endpoint to the semicircular bend is 5.5" on both. I'm convinced these parts are - dimension-wise - identical. There is a piece of what looks like red tape on the passenger side of my Legacy's bar near the semicircular bend. This could be an inventory thing, or it could indicate that the bar has different metallurgical properties. So, if the Whiteline bar would be a drop-in replacement for a Legacy bar, why haven't they just checked the Seventh Gen Legacy box on their database and tacked on a few sales? I'm guessing that it's a safety testing issue or that the addition of a stiffer bar on the Legacy's lowered suspension geometry has some unpleasant side effects on the ride. Subaru has promised a "sport-tuned suspension" on the '23 Legacy Sport. Might mean we are getting some new goodies in the OEM parts catalog soon...

https://variantaero.com/products/2020-subaru-legacy-front-splitter This is the only non-OEM body kit that I'm aware of. And, of course, there's the OEM spoiler: https://www.subaruonlineparts.com/part-ymm/2020-subaru-legacy-spoiler.html

Big discussion on that over at Bob Is The Oil Guy: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-recommendation-2020-subaru-legacy-2-4-turbo.323326/

Anybody switched out side mirror caps yet? I'm not a fan of the plastichrome ones on the Touring XT. I looked for a tutorial for a 6th gen Outback. Found a lot of stuff for Foresters and WRXs, but all the Outback/Legacy content was for older gens. Those mirrors appear far less complicated. I imagine this is accomplished by removing the lower back trim piece first or by shifting the mirror out of the way and popping the tabs out. After probing around the mirror housing with a trim tool, I started to get flashbacks of trying to replace a battery in an iPad. Decided it was best to seek an experienced opinion...

Is it my imagination, or is the new Sport spoiler even thiccer? When you got a trunk that size, I guess you just lean into it...

Drove an Accord and Camry while car shopping. The Legacy is absolutely a better car. Also drove a 340i and an A4. The Legacy is not a better car than the A4 (or the 21' Acura TLX), but the Legacy offers far more bang for buck, especially in the Touring trim. The 340i is a very different car, and one I wouldn't readily compare to the Legacy. Never drove an A6 or a 5 series. But it's not worth buying an Audi or Bimmer lease victim/basketcase to have that experience at the cost of a new Legacy. I really struggled with the Legacy versus a used Lexus GS350. In the end, the Legacy's full warranty, modern head unit, and far more ample rear seat room won me over. I do not love the Legacy's gigantic rear end, mismatched wheel wells, or truckish front end, but I do love that it's a total NPC car. It's a turbocharged sleeper that TruckBros never see coming. It cleans up well, and passengers are always impressed by the interior and the smoothness of the suspension and CVT. The Touring trim is a true luxury car, and the Limited is still one of the best "Japanese" sedan interiors outside of the luxury segment.

How much difference are we talking here?

Exciting news from the Outback Brethren Whiteline did a limited 100-unit run of a 20mm solid rear sway bar to replace the 19mm hollow OEM. The item is currently listed on their site, but sold out. Imma keep an eye on this one...

I have a 21 XT, and the roof seam has four hatches/flaps that flip up to reveal the bolt holes. I picked up the crossbars at purchase this summer to have a quick solution for kayaks. They are ... meh. Loud and flimsy (about 80 lbs of capacity), but cheap. Yakima and Thule bars are stupid expensive and hard to find right now.

Not a dumb question. The HK system leaves a LOT to be desired. Might just need a tweeter upgrade, though. I found the dash tweeter swap in my 2017 Premium Crosstrek to be the most effective at improving the sound (without adding a sub). I swapped the door speakers as well and was surprised to find that they weren't paper cone trash and had a built in baffle. I noticed the same muffled high frequency issue in the Legacy, despite that center dash speaker.

So clever. You must be very proud of yourself. The system must be trained on grumpy men from Indiana, because it is HILARIOUSLY bad at understanding anyone else. Hate to say it, but I find the whole nav/AI part of the head unit to be useless. I just plug in the phone and use Apple Carplay. Not perfect, but better than the default.

Also very interested in a permanent hardware/software fix for this. Don't expect much from this forum. It's crawling with Subaru astroturfers who never seem to have any problems with THEIR cars, because the live in The Great Lonely Waste where nothing like actual road conditions ever upset the delicate sensibilities of this hysterical sensor suite.

The "Subaru Ambassador" has no issues... Pardon my skepticism. Every car has issues. Every car purchase is a balance and a compromise between desires, resources, and availability. Nobody makes a Volvo body with a BMW drivetrain, Lexus interior, Audi displays, and Acura SH-AWD at a Camry price. The Legacy has myriad issues, which are readily evident to anyone who drives it regularly and dynamically. Most of these issues are cost and mileage compromises that I readily accept, given its market positioning and the fact that the ride, cabin noise, features, handling, and interior volume and quality punch far above the price point. Other issues are the result of, frankly, subpar software development. This driver monitor problem (as well as the emergency braking reset) is a unique mix of incompetence and crappy political behavior at the expense of the customer. It is very fixable through a software update, and Subaru should do so. I am absolutely planning to physically disable this "feature". However, an interesting point raised here is that this may not be a problem in Canada. US-only regulatory shenanigans?

TLDR: The Outback/Legacy driver monitor only pretends to deactivate and will come back to life if the car deems it necessary. This is awful engineering behavior, and I won't pay for more of it. This is not the car I wanted; this was the devil I knew. After spending a year part time driving my wife's 2020 Outback, I conceded that maybe I really didn't need a gas guzzling GS350, an abused A4 lease refugee, or a (gen 1) TLX with its Fisher Price interior. I could get a mid-sized AWD drive sedan with a turbo, leather, and all the toys that drinks 87 octane and comes with a warranty. And I could get it for MSRP in the middle of the post-COVID manufacturing slump. So, I traded our Crosstrek and took a chance on the unloved Gen 7. I knew - from my Outback experience - to immediately disable most of the noisy safety junk. I was prepared to be annoyed that Auto Vehicle Hold takes two eternal screen presses to activate ... and then deactivates on shutdown for some asinine reason. Auto Stop Start is violent, but I the 2021s have the screen shutoff at the ready. I knew that the head unit ran on some kind of ancient Denso potato chip that couldn't hold a candle to an iPhone 4. I knew that the CVT frequently argues with the turbo; that the seats are a bit wooden; and that the wheels look like they were designed by a portly suburban dad with fading tribal bro tattoos. There is one thing that still continuously surprises and irks me in this first month+ of ownership, though, and it has left me questioning any future purchases from this brand. The driver monitoring system does not ever shut "off." There are severe disconnects between Subaru's engineering teams when crafting a coherent user experience, and there also seems to be a bit of high-handed coercion and social engineering being exercised by brand managers and compliance geeks that conspire to undermine my enjoyment and trust of this car. There are several niggling UX fails and "features" that I could (and will) point out, but the driver monitoring system is the one issue that neatly encapsulates all of the problems I've seen in this car's UI/UX. If it wasn't for the fact that Subaru has proven to me over and over that Starlink can barely do what it states it will do, I'd be more paranoid about their nannycam and what it is secretly recording. As it stands, the damn thing is just annoying. It has one useful feature - scan your face and change the seat position based on the driver. It's a neat party trick, and it makes it look like you purchased something more fanceh than a mid-market family hauler. But the buttons on the door do the same job and far more reliably. What it also does: - Beep at you and post an all-caps KarenPanic message if you lean forward to have your back scratched while on a road trip - Beep and panic post while you are trying to read address numbers while crawling at 10mph - Beep/panic if you rest your cheek on your hand and distort your face in a way that Potato Chip can't process - Beep/panic if the sun is at the wrong angle You can and should shut this garbage off. I did, and, to Subaru's credit, the setting stuck, even has I still have to turn on Auto Vehicle Hold and turn off emergency Karen braking EVERY TIME I DRIVE. But, dear friends, this is all lies. That camera never stops processing. First, it always comes on at startup, because it has to read your face to know to "shut itself off" when you get in the car. If it reads another person's face, it turns on and happily Karen Panics for their drive. Fair enough. But even when it reads your face and activates your "off" setting, it is still watching you. Pull out at a T junction and slam your accelerator. Wind that poor bicycle chain out to red line while adopting a lean foward/face squish/eye squint posture, and, I guarantee you that KarenCam will leap back to life to Panic. And you will have to dig back into the menu and shut her off again, because you have proven that you cannot be trusted, naughty boy. I don't know the exact parameters that cause the Outback/Legacy system to drop its "off" ruse and scream at you, but, like the psychotic emergency braking, it doesn't appear to be much. I've seen it happen twice now, and it makes me livid. The kicker in all of this? Subaru's software team - while knowingly leaving the camera on - won't allow you to use it for seat profile selection UNLESS you also leave the Karen Panic Beeps on as well. That, my friends, is not an engineering limitation. That's a pure, unadulterated D move. Subaru, your stereo camera auto cruise, radar blind spot monitors, and bumper proximity sensors are almost flawless. Love them. But the rest your your safety suite is ham fisted, half baked, and/or nastily coercive. Your emergency braking jumps at shadows. Your lane keep assist ping pongs. And your driver monitoring system is noisy and truly useless. If you are going to make it your policy to deny your customers the choice of truly disabling these systems or, worse, LIE to them about those choices, I will not be interested in future purchases.